Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Tex on September 21, 2011, 11:35:51 AM
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After I pull a shot with a Gaggia I check the puck. There should be a divet from the shower screen screw, and a slight impression from the outside edge of the shower screen holder plate.
Anything other than these impressions in the puck indicates problems with distribution techniques.
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How much room do you think you have while the puck is still dry?
What if you pull the shot and there's no impressions in the puck?
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How much room do you think you have while the puck is still dry?
What if you pull the shot and there's no impressions in the puck?
;D
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How much room do you think you have while the puck is still dry?
What if you pull the shot and there's no impressions in the puck?
Then I say, "Dammit, Peter's been messing with my stuff again!" ;D
I've never measured, but it's always the depth permitted by my Macap auto tamper.
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Those were serious questions, mp.
I'm assuming it would be OK to dose less and not have the impressions.
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Those were serious questions, mp.
I'm assuming it would be OK to dose less and not have the impressions.
I've tried it and had too many problems with channeling. By using a standard 14 grams and tamping as I do, I seldom have problems anymore.
This applies to my consumer machines without preinfusion. My Bunn ES-1A has preinfusion, plus the pressure ramps up more slowly, so I can underdose without problems.
Everyone has their own way of doing things - this works for me.
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Nothing wrong with a method that works for you, but most of what I read says if there is an impression then not enough head room was left for expansion of the puck.
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Nothing wrong with a method that works for you, but most of what I read says if there is an impression then not enough head room was left for expansion of the puck.
Got any credible citations and links?
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Those were serious questions, mp.
I'm assuming it would be OK to dose less and not have the impressions.
I have no doubt Peter.
I was grinning at the timing of your questions ... I just noted a new post by Robert and then your post not too long afterwards.
;)
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Nothing wrong with a method that works for you, but most of what I read says if there is an impression then not enough head room was left for expansion of the puck.
Got any credible citations and links?
I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours! ;D
Here are a few;
http://www.coffeecrew.com/gear/20-gaggia-classic-second-look (http://www.coffeecrew.com/gear/20-gaggia-classic-second-look)
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1310712633 (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1310712633)
http://coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=628&hilit=chicago+chop (http://coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=628&hilit=chicago+chop)
http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/tweaks.html (http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/tweaks.html)
http://www.brista.ca/brewing/coffee-quantity-for-espresso-7gr-vs-more/ (http://www.brista.ca/brewing/coffee-quantity-for-espresso-7gr-vs-more/)
http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002 (http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002)
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1167053065 (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1167053065)
http://coffee.bc.ca/gear/91/putting-the-knife-to-gaggia (http://coffee.bc.ca/gear/91/putting-the-knife-to-gaggia)
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Mind if I just use one of yours for now?
"Since using this method, my pucks have always been hard and dry. I have not had any difficulty locking the pf in place (if you overfill too much, you will have problems). My dispersion screen is always clean (relatively) after the pull, and there is virtually no clean up around the group head, as there had been with my first attempts."
His method mentions nothing about a screw imprint in his (or her) puck...
http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002 (http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002)
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Mind if I just use one of yours for now?
"Since using this method, my pucks have always been hard and dry. I have not had any difficulty locking the pf in place (if you overfill too much, you will have problems). My dispersion screen is always clean (relatively) after the pull, and there is virtually no clean up around the group head, as there had been with my first attempts."
His method mentions nothing about a screw imprint in his (or her) puck...
[url]http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002[/url] ([url]http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002[/url])
Read it again!
"Observations and Improvements: At this point you should have enough grounds in the basket to fill past the indentation in the side of the basket (the one that holds the basket in the pf). When I am done pulling a shot, I always have the impression of the dispersion screen screw-head in the puck."
Ever hear of Mr Scace or Mr Schulman?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/msg/fcbfdd02db897112 (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/msg/fcbfdd02db897112)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/msg/ace3adc77b5eb02a (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/msg/ace3adc77b5eb02a)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/msg/254d8f582d5e7942 (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/msg/254d8f582d5e7942)
And I don't rely on their testimony - this is my experience also.
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But those were from '04-'06, they've changed their tune since then. ;D
Rule of thumb a) "puck expansion during the pull is a given, but there needs to be some headspace before the expansion occurs."
Rule of thumb b) "taste of the espresso trumps rule of thumb a)."
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After I pull a shot with a Gaggia I check the puck. There should be a divet from the shower screen screw, and a slight impression from the outside edge of the shower screen holder plate.
Anything other than these impressions in the puck indicates problems with distribution techniques.
I suspect because you have problems with your distribution techniques you are updosing to compensate.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3647/3433550983_031b2c91db.jpg)
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But those were from '04-'06, they've changed their tune since then. ;D
Rule of thumb a) "puck expansion during the pull is a given, but there needs to be some headspace before the expansion occurs."
Rule of thumb b) "taste of the espresso trumps rule of thumb a)."
Before is the operative word there Peter. The top of the puck should not come in contact with the screen or screw when the portafilter is inserted.
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After I pull a shot with a Gaggia I check the puck. There should be a divet from the shower screen screw, and a slight impression from the outside edge of the shower screen holder plate.
Anything other than these impressions in the puck indicates problems with distribution techniques.
I suspect because you have problems with your distribution techniques you are updosing to compensate.
You suspect? ??? I thought you'd read something, somewhere, that said I was incorrect?
I just present the facts as I see them - folks can argue with them if they wish. I also presented the opinions of others - folks can argue with them if they wish.
Where's that brass billy goat animated GIF?
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I just have a different opinion. Your grounds look different than what I see at the end of my shots. The particles look much larger in your wet basket shot - mine are like fine silt.
Here is some old world old school thought recovered from H-B:
Marino Petracco in Espresso Coffee, 7.5.4, Illy & Vianni, eds wrote:
"During expansion, wet coffee grounds exert a pressure comparable to the wooden wedge once used to split marble ... On account of this behavior, an empty space is left above the ground coffee cake inside the extraction chamber. The actual expansion of the coffee cake varies by blend, roasting degree, and dose, and determines the minimum headspace (around 5mm to 6mm) needed to prevent over-compaction."
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I just have a different opinion. Your grounds look different than what I see at the end of my shots. The particles look much larger in your wet basket shot - mine are like fine silt.
Here is some old world old school thought recovered from H-B:
Marino Petracco in Espresso Coffee, 7.5.4, Illy & Vianni, eds wrote:
"During expansion, wet coffee grounds exert a pressure comparable to the wooden wedge once used to split marble ... On account of this behavior, an empty space is left above the ground coffee cake inside the extraction chamber. The actual expansion of the coffee cake varies by blend, roasting degree, and dose, and determines the minimum headspace (around 5mm to 6mm) needed to prevent over-compaction."
When you can't argue the facts, just argue - right Eric? Nothing you quoted contradicts what I said. I'm done with this thread if all you're going to do is grasp at such weak straws to further your specious contentions. ::)
BTW: What happened to all those examples of what you read?
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Sounds like you are attacking the messenger instead of refuting the message - good to know then that my facts are solid.
Tighten your grind a bit and you will be fine.
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Sounds like you are attacking the messenger instead of refuting the message - good to know then that my facts are solid.
Tighten your grind a bit and you will be fine.
Like I said, "Nothing you quoted contradicts what I said."
On account of this behavior, an empty space is left above the ground coffee cake inside the extraction chamber.
This means leave a gap between the dry puck and the screen. After the puck is saturated it will expand, filling the void in a properly dosed puck.
I'm still waiting for any links to anything that contradicts what I said?
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Because I care - and because I want you to have the best espresso possible I give you some reading:
http://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-about-overdosing-makes-channeling-more-likely-t5373.html (http://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-about-overdosing-makes-channeling-more-likely-t5373.html)
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Because I care - and because I want you to have the best espresso possible I give you some reading:
[url]http://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-about-overdosing-makes-channeling-more-likely-t5373.html[/url] ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-about-overdosing-makes-channeling-more-likely-t5373.html[/url])
Come back when you've enough experience to comprehend what's being said in that thread. ::)
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That is a childish thing to post, Tex.
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After I pull a shot with a Gaggia I check the puck. There should be a divet from the shower screen screw, and a slight impression from the outside edge of the shower screen holder plate.
Anything other than these impressions in the puck indicates problems with distribution techniques.
How about this...
Tex, it's nice that you have a routine after you pull a shot on your Gaggia. It's nice that you think there should be a divet and slight impression after you pull a shot on your Gaggia. It's nice that you think when you pull a shot and check your puck that if there isn't any divets or outer edge impressions that your distribution technique was incorrect.
It's nice that your opinion is just that... your opinion. It's also nice that facts are different than opinion.
Your technique applies to you. It doesn't apply to me, or a lot of people.
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A view from the bottom. ;D
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Looks like your puck is smiling John must have been pulled Naked ;)