Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Scarecrow on January 13, 2019, 08:31:48 AM
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My position at work was just eliminated. I have 30 days to find a new position within the company (they aren't really working with us). Seems to be the best time to work on my fledgling coffee business.
I plan to begin with farmer's markets and shows. I need to buy a larger roaster as I am using my frankenroaster, but I would like to take a roaster with me.
In your opinion, which roaster would be your choice?
I'm look to do a decent size roast each run, minimum of 8lbs.
I have my branding ready, and a small following.
I've been back and forth on fluid bed vs drum. My roaster decision is based more on quality, quantity, and cost.
Thanks for any input.
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You're looking for a roaster that'll do 8lbs. and is something you can take with you to shows and/or markets? Or, are you looking for two different roasters, each with its own purpose?
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The Artisan 9 would be a great electric roaster to use. For gas, Id have no idea that large.
You could run the A9 on a 12 Kw generator I bet, which is not that expensive in the grand scheme of things, or if you can get access to a 60 Amp (like a campground type) outlet.
If you do get one, please mention my name when you buy it, and Id be happy to discuss any questions you'd have on it and using it.
https://bit.tube/play?hash=QmWdQsJyXzp8tHUh5a2PH7MTR6vaC2nh5AAYA8NecRuqUW&channel=24261
Here is a video I shot earlier of me using my Artisan 6 to do 5 lbs. It can actually do 7 if I wanted. Anyways, the Artisan 9 is just a slightly bigger unit. Also, depending on your situation, you may even be able to just buy the heater part of it w/o the chaff collector bla bla if you are in a situation where you don't mind the chaff just flowing off into the breeze and save some $$ on the purchase price.
Aaron
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A 12kw generator is only going to give you 50 amps at 240v. The Generac GP17500E puts out 17.5kw running and 26.2kw starting, but the largest outlet on it is one 50 amp.
kp
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As kelpdaddy stated, there are several good generators out there that will fill your need. The Artisan will pull about 11kw or so top. It's recommended with a Circuit Breaker of 60 Amp but 50 Amps will work just as well. To be honest I don't think you'll be needing to push the watts to the tippy top. I have done it on mine just to see where it tops out at but that's a bit more than you really need to roast.
The power is going to a heating element, so there is no major surge of inductive starting current like trying to crank over a big compressor or anything. The blower fan for lofting may run like 800 watts total, but again, if you turned it up that much you'd be launching the beans across the yard onto the neighbors roof.
You could probably find a few good generators out there that will suit your needs. I believe there are also some propane ones out there too, or diesel, your pick if you want to go that route. It is always good though to get a gen that is a bit higher rated than what you need. It's easier on the engine when you are not pumping it near 100 percent rating, the fuel economy is a bit better as well.
Aaron
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You're looking for a roaster that'll do 8lbs. and is something you can take with you to shows and/or markets? Or, are you looking for two different roasters, each with its own purpose?
Fair point, I should have specified.
I need one to take to the venues, want the smells and the questions.
I also want a larger one to make the large batches.
Now, if I could get a single roaster that could travel and make decent size batches, that would be ideal I'm using my severance to fund this.
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What type of vehicle would you be carrying your roaster in? Is it going to be a trunk monkey? Given the amount you want to roast, a gas one would be pretty heavy for that. You'd want it in a trailer. The Artisan though, actually could do 7 lbs and you could pick it up. it'd fit in a trunk it's a box really so not like there's a lot of pipes and hoses to bust off. You could put it and / or the generator on a wheel dolly, carry it around in a 5 x 8 enclosed trailer that you tow behind your car / truck. I think it'd be very workable. As a plus if you could find yourself somewhere where there is electricity available you could plug in and not have to run the generator.
The Artisan would do as little as a pound. They say half a pound but it can get finicky, id go with a pound and up to 9 with the Artisan 9. Smells are definately there, and the site too, you can look right into the chamber and see the beans bouncing around, see the chaff wafting out, smell the smoke of the beans going through the nutty stage, and the roasting stage. A drum roaster that might be all enclosed and not much to see really, until you get to where you pour them out to cool. Though if you wanted, i am sure you could get a gene cafe or something like that solely for the 'show off' affect.
Aaron
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I'm surprised I didn't think of this question first...
How did you arrive at wanting an 8lb/batch-sized roaster? What data are you using to forecast your demand and/or sales per month? How many hours per week are you willing to devote to roasting?
Here's why I ask; I sell roughly 100# of coffee per month on average. I have a 2K roaster, which seems small, and normally net 3# per batch, or 12# per hour. So my monthly demand is satisfied w/ say, 9 hours of roasting.
So your 8# roaster, roasting those same 9 hours per month would net you 288#. And much more, obviously, if you doubled your monthly hours to 18.
So how much coffee can you sell in a month?
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Another thought on the generator...the Generac is loud, very loud. I know as I have one at my farm and one at work also. It is well built and very reliable but I wouldn't be able to hear a first crack within a hundred feet of it unless the sound was isolated some how.
kp
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kelpdaddy on the bigger ones I believe they do sell silencer kits for them. If not a 'kit' im sure you can find a muffler option for it. Hell if he does it right he can use the exhaust heat to preheat the beans too hehe.
Aaron
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kelpdaddy on the bigger ones I believe they do sell silencer kits for them. If not a 'kit' im sure you can find a muffler option for it. Hell if he does it right he can use the exhaust heat to preheat the beans too hehe.
Aaron
I detect a slight diesel note in this coffee...
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Well Diesels burn oil, they originally ran on peanut oil. As oily and disgusting as starbucks is, i bet if you squeezed some you could get that coffee oil to run the diesel with. Roast your Robusta with starbucks oil. A win / win for sure. chugga chugga .... At least that way you'd actually be putting the coffee to good use for a change :)
Aaron
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If you want something to take with you to Farmer's Markets and the like, I'd recommend a Bullet, Quest M3, or a Hottop in that descending order. They're electric units that are largely self contained and can produce good roasts.
For a small portable gas roaster the newer Coromat may meet your needs. I use a Huky but I wouldn't call it portable. Both of these roll out 1lb batches.
For home roasting there are several gas drum options along with the electric units discussed above.
Ambex is a lower cost option as are others that frequently come up on Craigslist, etc. A local roaster I know used a 5kg Ambex successfully for several years before moving up.
Good luck on your new venture.
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Another alternative is a grill roaster. Standard grill with a drum and a motor. Easy setup, medium learning curve, and can handle may different batch sizes. A
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grill roaster is a good option but you will need to check with where you are setting up at. Some places have restrictions on what they'd probably consider to be an open flame.
Aaron
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Very good point. I was stopped at my first market, but another city didn't have a problem with it. We ended up not doing it anymore. Once you start grinding the coffee, that smell alone travels a long way. Plus, no smoke :)
grill roaster is a good option but you will need to check with where you are setting up at. Some places have restrictions on what they'd probably consider to be an open flame.
Aaron
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I live in florida, we have lots of flea markets. It looks like a street in Olongopo on Navy Week in some places. Invariably these things catch on fire every so often and burn down an acre of two of booths. The damage is horrible, sometimes $50 to upwards of $100 dollars is lost in those fires. They tend to be very strict about open flames and such because of that. Those Elvis dolls aint cheap to replace you know...
Aaron
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Although the Bullet would be good with its 1kg capacity, Aillio is working on a new, completely self-contained electric roaster with, if I remember correctly, 2kg capacity. I have seen the proto, and it is shockingly beautiful!
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Ok. Good points and I've met with some people and made some decisions.
I wont be taking the roaster with me. The logistics show there is no need.
Instead, I'll need a decent grinder to grind upon request.
I am still wanting a new roaster. I considered doing more frankenroasters, but I already have enough requested that I want to do larger batches in anticipation of increased sales (around here, this hasn't even started to get big).
I've met with potential partners who are starting a coffee business- they know business, but they dont know coffee. I have to decide if I'm going to partner with them or stay on my own. They have enough capital and investors that we could move fast, but I dont know that working with them is the right decision, due to my other endeavors.
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You'll still need a somewhat accurate forecast for weekly/monthly sales to determine size of your new roaster; too small and you're spending too much time roasting - too big and you invest too much into the roaster that could be spent elsewhere.
There are too many aspects of partnership for any of us to give solid advice because your situation is unique. But... I think it would be a good opportunity to work with them for a couple years and learn what they know. Like many of us, I thought about starting a cafe and came to the realization that I wouldn't want to be in charge of both roasting (securing samples, then bags, then managing inventory, etc) and running the business. If you could just be in charge of coffee and not have to deal with everything that goes into the business, be it your city's health dept. or their rules for signs and sidewalks, or hiring and payroll, buying supplies... the list goes on. To fly solo would be tough, at least for me.
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What Peter said but I will add a slight twist.
Too small a roaster and you spend your days slaving over the thing. Now a bit bigger than needed roaster, yes it's a bit of capital tied up but roasters typically hold their value pretty well if you take care of them, BUT.... you are a nobody now (no offense) once your business gets going and people know you, and your product, you become a somebody, and your sales go way up, so you grow into that big roaster you got, instead of having to sell a used roaster and then buy yet another bigger one.
Just my.02. and also what peter said, the roolz and bullshit of running a business, it may be good to get in with someone who can do all that for you, .. even if you do get very big, you will have to hire someone to do all that stuff anyways, maybe discuss this with them and buyout options etc before you get all set up. Not only health department but once you start roasting over 5lbs a shot or whatever it is, now you are causing 'pollution' and need a capture system for the smells / vapors bla bla type stuff. Having someone who knows this kind of garbage beforehand helps you wade through the red tape to finally get going.
Aaron
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For my own personal business, I already have enough orders where I am currently doing 100 to 125 pounds a month. With the farmers market and such added to that, figuring up to 300 pounds per month
If I go into the partnership, they have already selected a diedrich . They know absolutely nothing about coffee. If I partner with them, I will be the main coffee person for the greens and roasting, etc.
I've looked at diedrich, ambex, and artisan. I think for now, I am going to do a grill drum roaster. And once I'm doing over 300 per month, I will look at something larger.
Thoughts? I don't have a lot of regulations here where I live.
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For my 2K roaster, netting 12/hr. getting to 300#/month would translate to 25 hours of roasting or 6 hours per week which wouldn't be bad. I'm guessing a grill/drum set up would be comparable.
There might be something to be said for buying a 'real' roaster now. One, it'll give you better control over your roasts, hence better repeatability. Two, it'll give you a chance to learn the quirks of the roaster when your demand is still smaller. Three, if there is a discernible difference between your grill and the next roaster (and there will be) you'll have 300#-worth of customers you have to explain the difference to; they should be delighted that their coffee is better, but it would be better to make a change sooner with 100#-worth of customers.
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For my 2K roaster, netting 12/hr. getting to 300#/month would translate to 25 hours of roasting or 6 hours per week which wouldn't be bad. I'm guessing a grill/drum set up would be comparable.
There might be something to be said for buying a 'real' roaster now. One, it'll give you better control over your roasts, hence better repeatability. Two, it'll give you a chance to learn the quirks of the roaster when your demand is still smaller. Three, if there is a discernible difference between your grill and the next roaster (and there will be) you'll have 300#-worth of customers you have to explain the difference to; they should be delighted that their coffee is better, but it would be better to make a change sooner with 100#-worth of customers.
Good points.
So many decisions.
I was trying to get going with lower out of pocket, and I know a group doing the grill roaster and they are very successful. But your points are well made and now I lean towards larger (artisan 9) and bite the money bullet.
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I think you will love the Artisan 9. It's real easy to use and electricity is just so much neater and you don't have to worry about gas leaks or re filling bottles.
Also, it's very responsive too. I modded mine and put a small watt meter on the panel, granted mine is hanging there because I have not gotten around to dremmeling the panel and mounting it correctly but I can honestly say I can control the roast in like 10 to 20 watt tweaks. At 9 lbs of coffee, that's pretty much un noticeable, but the precision is there, and if you need you dial that baby to the moon and it'll hump some heat into the beans for sure. Be VERY careful of the loft though, seriously, it will throw the beans across the yard if you wind it out. Make sure you have the fan all the way low when you turn power on to it or you may be in for a nasty suprise as they go flying everywhere.
If you do get that one, please tell them I sent you there, I might get something from them for it and if I do i'll send you some free coffee to bust it's cherry on :P
Aaron
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I came across the Ashe roaster. Anyone familiar with it?
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I came across the Ashe roaster. Anyone familiar with it?
That's a first for me.
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I came across the Ashe roaster. Anyone familiar with it?
Ashe Roaster, isn't that what $B uses to char their beans with? :P
Aaron
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Just noticed this thread. I believe the Ashe Roaster is what Suzanne at Lion's Gate uses for her roasted Kona customers.