Author Topic: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?  (Read 9971 times)

BoldJava

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2014, 12:36:01 PM »
...
Speaking of new grinders, aren't you tired of yours by now? I think you've been hanging on to the grinder, that I would like to own, for quite long enough. Are you ready to send it my way yet? ;-)



That be a familiar litany.  Hope you have more success with it.

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« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 12:48:54 PM by BoldJava »

Burner0000

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2014, 12:59:41 PM »
A new Macap M4 doser, stepless can be had for $499 "Here". It's commercial and in my opinion superior to the Vario.  3 reasons.


1. Larger burrs. Vario - 54mm / M4 58mm
2. Stepless (Infinite grind settings for any brew type)
3. Commercial built


Did you spend a few days living with the Macap and the Vario, or are you just research comparing?

I owned a Macap for a few years prior to the Vario, when the Vario came out I bought it and sat the two side by side for quite a long time. I sold the Macap and kept the Vario.


Sorry I should have mentioned.  Only research on the Vario. 
Burr size has little to do with that equation, since one is flat and the other conical.

I also think for 99% of the time, 'stepless' is less significant than what we ascribe to the word; most grinders nowadays that use steps have them spaced close enough together.  I had a stepped M4 before my current grinder and it was never an issue.

Agreed on both points, Peter. My Macap was stepped as well, then I modded it to stepless, that mod didn't change my coffee world.


Once I did the mod moving to stepless changed my world.  I always found myself stuck between steps.  Not bashing the Vario in any way. Just saying why not go a bit bigger on burrs and more grind options for a few more bucks within the $500 price range.

BozemanEric

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2014, 03:22:15 PM »
A new Macap M4 doser, stepless can be had for $499 "Here". It's commercial and in my opinion superior to the Vario.  3 reasons.


1. Larger burrs. Vario - 54mm / M4 58mm
2. Stepless (Infinite grind settings for any brew type)
3. Commercial built


Did you spend a few days living with the Macap and the Vario, or are you just research comparing?

I owned a Macap for a few years prior to the Vario, when the Vario came out I bought it and sat the two side by side for quite a long time. I sold the Macap and kept the Vario.


Not to stir the pot but someone told me once about my side-by side comparisons:

"Or (considering this is espresso) it could be user error."


Offline John F

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2014, 04:10:15 PM »
I am currently laughing.  ;D
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Burner0000

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2014, 04:13:11 PM »
Well I can tell you that a stepped Macap's make an awesome full range grinder but eventually the steps for espresso lands you in between 2 notches.  If what I'm reading is correct about the Vario it has 230 steps just for espresso range would give it an advantage over a stepped Macap but stepless solves all that. 

Offline peter

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2014, 04:24:52 PM »
I am currently laughing.  ;D

Too funny; I was laughing already, and then scrolled down to see your post.

Somehow I don't think staylor and user error are to be used in the same sentence. 





I'm curious how often staylor changes his grinder.  Mine hardly ever gets adjusted, and only for beans that are really old, like 2 weeks or more old.  I've learned to disregard the shot parameters for how long they can pull, and find a 50sec. ristretto to be a fine thing.  So if one day the grinder setting pulls 50sec. and then a week later the beans are at the point where they pull a 40sec. shot, I don't really care...  both are more than drinkable, and are perfect in their own right. 

Which leads me back to stepped vs. stepless... the hash marks on the K10 represent about 5sec. in shot duration.  Who knows if the steps on say, a M4 also equal about 5sec. in shot duration, but my point is why should a difference of 5sec. make or break a shot.  I'm talking on the long end of the shot; I can see where there'd be a difference between a 20sec. shot and a 25sec. shot.  But for my setup and my tastes, even 25-30sec. is kinda short, especially if were talking full shots and not ristrettos.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 04:33:16 PM by peter »
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smico

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2014, 05:26:03 PM »
The only thing I don't like about Vario is inconsistency after changing the grind back to espresso.  It takes one or two shots on my Vario to get back to the fluffy zone. My solution will be to buy Baratza Encore for $120.
So, John, as a second grinder, I would recommend Vario.
Miniscule retention, consistent grind, I seldom have to adjust Vario once tuned, best customer service ever...

Would I buy it again: yes.  And I have already suggested various Baratza grinders to my friends.

Offline expy98

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2014, 09:06:20 PM »
surprised no one has mentioned the VooDoo modded Pharos, I guess I just did...

Offline staylor

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2014, 09:42:13 PM »

I'm curious how often staylor changes his grinder.  Mine hardly ever gets adjusted, and only for beans that are really old, like 2 weeks or more old.  I've learned to disregard the shot parameters for how long they can pull, and find a 50sec. ristretto to be a fine thing.  So if one day the grinder setting pulls 50sec. and then a week later the beans are at the point where they pull a 40sec. shot, I don't really care...  both are more than drinkable, and are perfect in their own right. 

Which leads me back to stepped vs. stepless... the hash marks on the K10 represent about 5sec. in shot duration.  Who knows if the steps on say, a M4 also equal about 5sec. in shot duration, but my point is why should a difference of 5sec. make or break a shot.  I'm talking on the long end of the shot; I can see where there'd be a difference between a 20sec. shot and a 25sec. shot.  But for my setup and my tastes, even 25-30sec. is kinda short, especially if were talking full shots and not ristrettos.

That's pretty much where I am at as well. I hardly ever adjust my grinder. I will play with the other variables first (dose, tamp pressure, lever manipulation, or whatever) and they always get me in the range that I want to be in. Of course that's easy to say now, but I have to remind myself that it took years of sweating all of the details in order to get to a point where the details just seem to fall in place auto-magically, a tiny bit of "Espresso Force" (TM).

I think a case can be made to anyone who is new-ish to espresso (less than 2yrs of focused shots) that it's important to focus on manipulating/playing around with just one variable (grind) while keeping all other variables as close to the same as possible, and study what that one variable does to espresso for a month. Then stabilize that variable and spend a month on the next variable. Half a year into it gives a much better understanding of how each variable impacts and then it's time to start playing one variable off another.

I spent months and months isolating variables, then some more months combining, the some more months trying to break espresso, doing things that shouldn't be done, going well beyond the generally accepted practices just so I could form a vision of the full playing field. Learning the really good, and the really bad, helped me find the better than middle ground. Sometimes I get amazing shots, sometimes I get pretty good shots, occasionally I'll get mediocre to poor shots, but all of them are better than retail shots so I don't have much to complain about. The shots that I pull today come from paying my dues in the espresso trenches in my cafe and more importantly as a focused home roaster/espresso nerd; 100,000 shots later and I can confidently say good espresso isn't easy, so anyone who's doing it effortlessly gets a tip of the hat from me.

Back to grinders... I get good results from my Vario. I'm sure I would get better results from a K10. Anyone want to give me a K10? ;-)

Offline simmich

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2014, 07:12:59 AM »
Well I can tell you that a stepped Macap's make an awesome full range grinder but eventually the steps for espresso lands you in between 2 notches.  If what I'm reading is correct about the Vario it has 230 steps just for espresso range would give it an advantage over a stepped Macap but stepless solves all that.

Haaaaa...Señor Burner is totally correct. There are times when the steps are just too far apart making the adjustments a tamping and/or lever pressure issue. The journey continues...

Offline expy98

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2014, 01:20:06 PM »
Peter, just curious but is pre-infusion included in your timing or is that only the time that coffee is dripping?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 11:24:15 AM by expy98 »

Offline peter

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2014, 04:03:49 PM »
I start the timer when the shot starts, so the 5sec. pre-infusion is included in the overall time.
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Offline John F

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2014, 08:05:39 AM »
I don't believe Peter is timing shots at this point.

Not buying it.
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Offline YasBean

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2014, 09:35:29 AM »
I finally put my Obel (La Pavoni ZIP) on Craigslist and put my Vario back on the counter.  The Obel was just to large for our counter space, and the Vario is acceptable for espresso as long as it is used for espresso only.  There are the occasional slow pulls, but overall great.

(Anyone interested in an Obel?)
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Offline peter

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Re: Is the Vario the best -$500 grinder?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2014, 10:03:27 AM »
I don't believe Peter is timing shots at this point.

Not buying it.

I have some swamp land in Florida you may be interested in.
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