Author Topic: Forgot my bag vendor's name  (Read 3526 times)

Offline nimbus

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Forgot my bag vendor's name
« on: March 03, 2009, 05:51:44 AM »
Hi all,
I can't find the name of the company I got my one pound plastic vac lock coffee bags from. I did like them, so kinda bummed. Can anyone recommend a good source. If possible, one that can custom print. I'm a small roaster/coffeeshop, so not looking at mass volume.

Any tips would be appreciated. You can post here or PM me...

Thanks,

Nimbus in Louisville.
Dr. Nimbus Couzin
Associate Professor of Physics
Ivy Tech Community College
Bellarmine University

thejavaman

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2009, 06:28:45 AM »
I've bought from both PACK PLUS CONVERTING & PACIFIC BAG before and I've never been disappointed with either.  I believe Harry uses Pack Plus for his distributions here....

Offline harryho

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2009, 10:18:49 AM »
I've bought from both PACK PLUS CONVERTING & PACIFIC BAG before and I've never been disappointed with either.  I believe Harry uses Pack Plus for his distributions here....


I have used both.

There is no difference between the two.

Nimbus, I will PM you my contacts.

Harry

thejavaman

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 12:57:42 PM »
...There is no difference between the two....

Really?  I always thought Pacific Bag uses the slightly more expensive/better quality valves made Bosch and Pack Plus doesn't.  I also thought P.B. had many more size options that P.P. doesn't offer (i.e. 2 oz. w/valve, etc.)....

Offline harryho

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 01:16:24 PM »
...There is no difference between the two....

Really?  I always thought Pacific Bag uses the slightly more expensive/better quality valves made Bosch and Pack Plus doesn't.  I also thought P.B. had many more size options that P.P. doesn't offer (i.e. 2 oz. w/valve, etc.)....

That's what they want you to think.

I don't see the justification for the hype in their valves when compared to Pack Plus' valve.

thejavaman

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 04:43:31 AM »
Why would anyone ever buy from Pacific Bag over Pack Plus then if there is "no difference between the two" and Pack Plus is notably cheaper???

I can't say that the difference is huge, but on occasion, I've had a few of the valves from Pack Plus bags get "stuck" (where the bag puffs up and the CO2 doesn't get released) and I don't recall ever having that problem with Pacific Bag's valves....

Stubbie

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 06:59:14 AM »
I'm getting ready to choose a bag vendor, so this is all interesting reading for me.  Would love to hear others opinions...

-Stubbie

ButtWhiskers

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 09:33:24 AM »
Pacific Bag has plenty of bags with Pack Plus valves, so I wouldn't buy that hype, either.

Sorbent Systems and www.plasticbagsforyou.com can also be competitive for bags when they are having one of their frequent specials. 

I can't find the link to the other place I have used in the past, the guys that have the really great deals on the valved gussetted bags without the zipper.  I paid about $95 with shipping for 500 16oz valved gussetted bags (19 cents each).  You gotta use an impulse sealer, but the price is right.

I just won an auction for 550 12-16oz. gold/clear zipper valve bags on eBay last night for about $135 with shipping.  I'll probably sell some of those off at $20 for 50 including shipping once they arrive.   >:D

thejavaman

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 10:09:55 AM »
...Pacific Bag has plenty of bags with Pack Plus valves, so I wouldn't buy that hype, either...

I didn't realize that.  I trust you and Harry, so I stand corrected....

ButtWhiskers

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Re: Forgot my bag vendor's name
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 12:05:40 PM »
The study that gets 'quoted' by PBi is found here: http://www.pacificbag.com/articles/VALVEEFFECTIVENESSSTUDY.pdf

The observations that I would note are that:
A) they do not reveal anything about "Competitor A"'s ID other than that they supply small and medium-sized roasters with valved coffee bags - this could be anyone... 
B) they do not describe which types of bag materials are examined or whether they were truly equivalent
C) they do not tell you if all of these samples (theirs and the competitors) were mixed together and analyzed blindly by the independent lab - and it appears that they are from different analysis groups...
and
D) they do not give quantitative time frames for how long the bags were on the shelf, or how they were treated in the interim.

SYNOPSIS:
A) In 2005 and 2006 (when they did the study), there were quite a few valves available from Chinese and Korean knock-off vendors, and I know we discussed this out here.  Some of these were notorious for leaking, and I remember there was even some trouble at the time with some vendors having bags with valves from several different sources at once.  The Pack Plus Converting valves fared much better in my own testing than the ones without a manufacturer stamped on them.  Anyway, I would bet that the comparison is being made to one of the 'no-name' valves, not Pack Plus.  In fact, in the article PBi admits:
Quote
Our studies show there are numerous established and functioning, or ?true,? one-way degassing valves on the market including those manufactured by Pacific Bag, Inc. Unfortunately, our studies also show that there are other products, touted as ?one-way? degassing valves which consistently allow significant amounts of oxygen to penetrate packages. As an example, we conducted various tests on degassing valves supplied by a competitor known for supplying coffee packs, plus valves to smaller and medium-size coffee roasters (named Competitor A for this study).
(Bolding by BW)  I think I still have sample bags at home from PBi, with their stickers on them, and Pack Plus embossed valves.

B) There are lots of different kinds of bag materials (there are good descriptions of permeability at SorbentSystems.com).  If you have a clear side to the bag, or a window, you do not have a foil layer, and you get O2 and H2O permeability that is at least an order of magnitude greater than a foiled mylar (which is actually made up of several different layers).  There are also several thicknesses of foiled mylar available.  The competitors bags could have been of different thicknesses and construction in the PBi study, they do not give you this information.   Usually when a bag fails (in my experience), it is due to a poor heat seal or poorly attached valve, although there certainly are a good share of non-functioning valves... 

C) It appears that the samples compared in this study were analyzed at two different times, which could indicate 'cherry-picking', or using the most favorable data to make the comparison.  They may have done each group (theirs and competitors) at the independent laboratory multiple times, the report does not give enough information to determine...

D)  Were the competitors bags shipped around a lot?  Roughly handled by store stockers?  Left in hot trailers?  Frozen?  Were their own bags subjected to the same handling?  How long had it been since each bag was sealed?  How did the O2 level compared to the time (since sealing) compare to the material specs for permeability?