Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Monito on March 29, 2008, 11:08:52 AM
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I found this in my area, Is it woth it?
"This Astoria espresso/cappuccino machine is in great working condition. The water softener/conditioner needs to be recharged but it and the motor/pump are also in great working condition. Brand new these units are over $4000! I bought this machine a number of years ago from an auction when a caf? went out of business and had it completely refurbished. Since then it has only been installed in our kitchen where it was very lightly used. And when we used it, it made a great cup of espresso. It is an industrial machine and can stand up to restaurant use. Below is a link to the web page that best describes this model. The unit on the web page is slightly smaller than mine but it is the same design. It also includes an automatic froth maker that attaches directly to the steamer. This will pump milk directly from the carton, froth it and dispense it right into your cup, perfectly. I paid $125 for this piece alone! You get the Astoria machine, motor/pump, water conditioner, two porta-filter handles (one single spout and one double) and two filter baskets. I need the money so the first $500 takes away the complete system."
Thanks,
Monito
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If it is as good as advertised, I think it is a steal. We have a 2 group Laurentis, which is made
by the same manufacturer. It does make great shots, I don't know anything about the auto
frother but the fact that you are getting the filter and water softener too, for $500, it is a
great price.
My $.02 worth.
nunubie
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I would only insist that they have it hooked up and show you that everything works.
If not, they might be hiding something.
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I would only insist that they have it hooked up and show you that everything works.
If not, they might be hiding something.
I just told him that I'll go see it now.
I just went there and the machine is gorgeous, I have to admit I was very tempted to buy it without even trying it. But my friend told me that if the controller is broken, I'm looking at around $400 just for the controller.
Tomorrow (April's fools day) I'll be testing this beauty...which me luck...
The machine is the older model that the pump sits outside, it comes with a water softener, 2 porta filters, 1 single and 1 double filter basket.
The guy seems like a very nice person.
What am I looking for when I connect it?
Water pumping fine?
etc?
Monito
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I would probably look for:
Water pumps through group and hot water wand
Steam steams through steam wand
Pressure gauge looks right
Temp is hot enough
No weird noises or rattles (though they may end up being inconsiquental)
No leaks
Also make sure your outlet can handle the voltage/amperage, as it may be a 240V or 110V with a 20A requirement, neither of which are very standard.
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Don't be shy about asking to remove the top and have a look inside. Tough to say what to look for there (maybe some water stains from an old leak? Some obviously amateur repair work?), but it will either look fine or there will be something that makes you wonder, and give you something to ask the seller. Also, if the machine has a programmable shot pad on the front, try all of the buttons and then ask the guy to demonstrate how to program them. You could find out how to program them later of course, but this will at least show you that the programming function works -electronics can be expensive. That said it looks like a heck of a deal, even if some repairs are necessary.
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Don't be shy about asking to remove the top and have a look inside. Tough to say what to look for there (maybe some water stains from an old leak? Some obviously amateur repair work?), but it will either look fine or there will be something that makes you wonder, and give you something to ask the seller. Also, if the machine has a programmable shot pad on the front, try all of the buttons and then ask the guy to demonstrate how to program them. You could find out how to program them later of course, but this will at least show you that the programming function works -electronics can be expensive. That said it looks like a heck of a deal, even if some repairs are necessary.
He lifted it up to look at the water fittings. I did see some white spots around it inside, but nothing odd. I have to assume that the white spots are from the steam.
Chris
I'll write your notes down and bring them with me.
Thank you all,
Monito
P.S. I which the pump was inside...
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I would probably look for:
Water pumps through group and hot water wand
Steam steams through steam wand
Pressure gauge looks right
Temp is hot enough
No weird noises or rattles (though they may end up being inconsiquental)
No leaks
Also make sure your outlet can handle the voltage/amperage, as it may be a 240V or 110V with a 20A requirement, neither of which are very standard.
I have several 20A outlets at home...I added one for my roaster
The Kitchen, laundry room, Garage and computer room.
I think this beast is going in the garage... :-\
Wife is a clean freak...
If I find leaks and I tight the fittings is that OK?
How hot should the water be?
I noticed that the pressure gage has a green zone (I'll assume is when the water is ready to make an espresso)
How long between shots?
Monito
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I would probably look for:
Water pumps through group and hot water wand
Steam steams through steam wand
Pressure gauge looks right
Temp is hot enough
No weird noises or rattles (though they may end up being inconsiquental)
No leaks
Also make sure your outlet can handle the voltage/amperage, as it may be a 240V or 110V with a 20A requirement, neither of which are very standard.
I have several 20A outlets at home...I added one for my roaster
The Kitchen, laundry room, Garage and computer room.
I think this beast is going in the garage... :-\
Wife is a clean freak...
If I find leaks and I tight the fittings is that OK?
Maybe, but sometimes it will require new seals or O-Rings
How hot should the water be?
Well steam should look like steam, hot water should be almost boiling, water from the group needs to be in the 195-205F, so you will see some whisps of steam there too. You would know if it was too cool.
I noticed that the pressure gage has a green zone (I'll assume is when the water is ready to make an espresso)
That sounds right.
How long between shots?
Not sure if I would worry about that part.
Monito
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I agree with Chris, but would just add that the reason you should be looking at how well it heats up does not have to do with what the temperature actually is (which on a functional machine would be adjustable), but just to make sure that you don't have a broken heating element (or two). If the machine can produce steam, that pretty much confirms that the element(s) are ok. Also, the most expensive leak you can have is a leak from the boiler in a place where there is no gasket, usually on a seam somewhere. Tightening down is free, o-rings and gaskets are cheap, but a breach of the boiler skin requires replacement of the boiler or a good friend or family member who is a talented metalworker.
I forget, is this an HX machine or a double boiler? If it is an HX, and there is water level indicator for the boiler (meaning a window where you can see the boiler fill level from the front of the machine), watch that window while shots are pulled to make sure the boiler is not filling at the same time. If it is, the HX is ruptured, and that would be at least as bad as having a leaky boiler.
...which is not to say that it would be a deal killer, given the outrageously good price! But if that is the case you would want to price out a new boiler before making an offer.
Good luck! Assuming no major problems I envy you for this deal.
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...snip... or a good friend or family member who is a talented metalworker.
I got one of those...
I forget, is this an HX machine or a double boiler? If it is an HX, and there is water level indicator for the boiler (meaning a window where you can see the boiler fill level from the front of the machine), watch that window while shots are pulled to make sure the boiler is not filling at the same time. If it is, the HX is ruptured, and that would be at least as bad as having a leaky boiler.
It is an HX, so if the window grows in size while the shot is being pulled then is it a bad boiler?
Would it be a good test, if I let water run in manual mode, then watch the water level?
When should the water level raise?
Good luck! Assuming no major problems I envy you for this deal.
Thank you,
Monito
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The water level in the boiler should only rise when the boiler autofill solenoid tells it to. Unless the water in the boiler happens to be low enough to trigger the autofill, it should never rise when either pulling a shot or drawing hot water from the boiler.
I don't mean to get you alarmed about this, I only mentioned it because it is something that can happen to machines that are stored carelessly in freezing temperatures. If this machine probably was not stored in freezing temperatures, it is unlikely to be a problem. But if it was, what can happen is that the water in the HX, which is really just a metal tube passing through the boiler, can freeze, expand, and rupture the HX inside the boiler. The only practical way to know if that has happened is to see if the boiler seems to fill while you are trying to pull a shot.
Hope that helps,
Paul
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The water level in the boiler should only rise when the boiler autofill solenoid tells it to. Unless the water in the boiler happens to be low enough to trigger the autofill, it should never rise when either pulling a shot or drawing hot water from the boiler.
I don't mean to get you alarmed about this, I only mentioned it because it is something that can happen to machines that are stored carelessly in freezing temperatures. If this machine probably was not stored in freezing temperatures, it is unlikely to be a problem. But if it was, what can happen is that the water in the HX, which is really just a metal tube passing through the boiler, can freeze, expand, and rupture the HX inside the boiler. The only practical way to know if that has happened is to see if the boiler seems to fill while you are trying to pull a shot.
Hope that helps,
Paul
If this deal goes through, I will kiss the SCAA trip goodbye...
When I saw the machine today, I couldn't believe it, it was like brand new. The guy that is selling it works for the airline industry and he seems to be trustworthy. Everything around his garage seems very organized. So hopefully he took care of this baby.
Thanks,
Monito
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Good luck on your purchase. I have the newer rebadged version of this (Laurentis) and have been very happy. I paid $250, tore it completely apart, cleaned all the scale out, replaced all the gaskets and a few other parts and put it back together for a total of maybe $400 ( i bought a new pump). Mine has the internal pump and I wish it was external as it uses a special ducati motor with water cooled housing that is hard to find (except via CMA).
CMA is very good to deal with. They have a knowledgable service department and seem to stock a bunch of old parts. You can also find repair and replacement parts at other locations. The machine is super easy to work on and diagnose problems (non electrical). Powering the machine up, pulling a few shots and frothing stuff will tell you most of what you need to know. Make sure you let enough steam out to induce the autofill to open and see what happens. Mine takes about 1 hour to stabilize (2 to really get everything warmed up).
Check for leaks underneathe, leaks at the 3-way solenoid discharge pipe (does it constantly drip?) and steam coming out of any of the connections on top of the boiler. See if the steam wand leaks at the swivel gasket (this is a minor repair even it if does). See if you can adjust the pressure on the pump. A frozen adjustment screw could be an indication of scale.
Other than that, you can't tell a whole lot short of opening the boiler or disconnecting some of the copper pipes to see if there is any buildup inside. I will add that I don't ever use the water wand for anything. If I am making americanos I get the water through the group (fresher). I also never use the pre-set control buttons. I pull all of my shots manually.
C.
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How do you program a shot?
How long should a single and double be?
Thanks,
Monito
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How do you program a shot?
How long should a single and double be?
Thanks,
Monito
Going off of memory....
There should be a little toggle switch behind the controller. Toggle it then push one of the preset buttons, start a shot then stop it at the *volume* you want for that preset then press the preset again. If you were successful, you should be able to switch the toggle back to where it started and after pressing the preset you just programmed observe that it dispenses what you set. You are setting volume not time. There is a formula for an unobstructed 2 oz pour of something like 8 seconds. I could be way off on the time but this number will let you know if your giculeur is sized correctly.
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More news...
It works great!!!
However, there are a couple of problems:
The pump pressure its always at around 6.5-7 bars (not in the green zone)
when I pull a shot the pump meter needle vibrates at around 11-12 bars
There is only 1 leak, it is around the steamer, which can be solved with Teflon tape.
The black floater is at the top of the eye glass, way above Max level...hmmm?
I don't know how to program it ??? I don't see the switch that the book implies. I noticed a deep switch on the programing controller and when I pulled it out and hit the program the pump would not stop. I had to disconnected...
This is the 1st time I tasted an awesome shot, it was very sweet...
Monito
P.S. Here it is...
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Dont trust the pressure guage. It could be wildly off. To accurately determine pressure you need a portafilter based pressure guage that you can pick up from espressoparts.com or other places. Second, the "always around 6 - 7 bars" indicates your line pressure. Your pump is not pressurizing the internal lines, your mains water supply is. 6+ is pretty dang high for inside your house pressure. If that panned out to be accurate, I would try to find a simple pressure regulator to knock it down to 4-ish. My pressure guage reads 10 - 11 (bouncy) while pulling a shot. If I adjust down to the green zone, it is too low and the cup suffers.
In your picture looking down on the inside of the group head there is a big bolt (17 mm I believe). Under that bolt is the giculeur and group filter. You can tell alot about the internal condition by looking at that little filter and the surrounding hardware.
I wouldn't unscrew it hot. ;)
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...snip... Your pump is not pressurizing the internal lines...snip...
What does that means?
In your picture looking down on the inside of the group head there is a big bolt (17 mm I believe). Under that bolt is the giculeur and group filter. You can tell alot about the internal condition by looking at that little filter and the surrounding hardware.
I wouldn't unscrew it hot. ;)
Is it that bolt showing on the astoria 041.jpg picture above?
Also, do you see on that picture the programming controller, there is a black pull off type switch.
It is right above the green connector.
When I took that out and pulled a shot the pressure went way above 12 bars and I had to turn off the machine to get it to stop.
My pressure guage reads 10 - 11 (bouncy) while pulling a shot.
Mine dances ???
Monito
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...snip... Your pump is not pressurizing the internal lines...snip...
What does that means?
It means that while you are not pulling a shot (normal resting condition) the pressure displayed on your gauge will be your lines pressure. The pump does not keep the machine pressured up.
In your picture looking down on the inside of the group head there is a big bolt (17 mm I believe). Under that bolt is the giculeur and group filter. You can tell alot about the internal condition by looking at that little filter and the surrounding hardware.
I wouldn't unscrew it hot. ;)
Is it that bolt showing on the astoria 041.jpg picture above?
Yes, the one next to the controller box connection.
Also, do you see on that picture the programming controller, there is a black pull off type switch.
It is right above the green connector.
When I took that out and pulled a shot the pressure went way above 12 bars and I had to turn off the machine to get it to stop.
Monito
When you disconnected it, did you press the manual shot button or one of the controller buttons?
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Here is the sequence of events:
Machine is on
pull out the pull out switch (it looks like the Hard Drives deep switches)
hit the prog/stop button
hit the double shot (pressure gage is just going way up)
Let water run...
Hit the double shot again, nothing happens
Hit the prog/stop (nothing happens)
turn off the machine switch (nothing)
Finally pulled the plug ???
Monito
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Here is the sequence of events:
Machine is on
pull out the pull out switch (it looks like the Hard Drives deep switches)
hit the prog/stop button
hit the double shot (pressure gage is just going way up)
Let water run...
Hit the double shot again, nothing happens
Hit the prog/stop (nothing happens)
turn off the machine switch (nothing)
Finally pulled the plug ???
Monito
Yep. That sounds broken.
Don't do that anymore ;)
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Here is the sequence of events:
Machine is on
pull out the pull out switch (it looks like the Hard Drives deep switches)
hit the prog/stop button
hit the double shot (pressure gage is just going way up)
Let water run...
Hit the double shot again, nothing happens
Hit the prog/stop (nothing happens)
turn off the machine switch (nothing)
Finally pulled the plug ???
Monito
Yep. That sounds broken.
Don't do that anymore ;)
The gauge is broken, It has a value of 2 bars before there is water. As soon as I put water then it goes to 6 1/3.
$60... ouch!!!
I haven't been able to program it, but I think I know how to do it now.
Is it normal for water to come out from a line behind the shot glasses when pulling a shot?
Monito
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Is it normal for water to come out from a line behind the shot glasses when pulling a shot?
Monito
Can you elaborate on this a little more? Line? Where are your shot glasses?
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Is it normal for water to come out from a line behind the shot glasses when pulling a shot?
Can you elaborate on this a little more? Line? Where are your shot glasses?
Look at the "Astoria 044.jpg" above (the last picture) You see that pipe behind the hole? Water comes out from the bottom of that pipe when I pull a shot!
Thanks,
Monito
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Look at the "Astoria 044.jpg" above (the last picture) You see that pipe behind the hole? Water comes out from the bottom of that pipe when I pull a shot!
Thanks,
Monito
Is that where the expansion valve drains?
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Is that where the expansion valve drains?
It could be, there is that large one and there is a tiny one next to it made out of copper. If you you look at the picture, it will be next to it.
Thanks,
Monito
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Is that where the expansion valve drains?
It could be, there is that large one and there is a tiny one next to it made out of copper. If you you look at the picture, it will be next to it.
Thanks,
Monito
That is the 3rd way of the 3-way solenoid. Usually it only come out of that when you stop a shot (pressure releases via that route) or when you put too much pressure on it. Drop a blank in a portafilter, lock it in and pull a shot... water should come out. Then try a coarse grind in the portafilter and see if it comes out of that pipe with less pressure on the puck. I think that if it continues to come out during regular shot pressure, you have a leaking solendoid which may need to be descaled. Mine did.
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Here is the latest! The pressure was way to high at the pump...adjusted to 10 when pulling the shot.
The gauge is broken, but all I have to do is subtract 2 to the value.
Group screen changed and clean underneath (dirty)
Cannot find that programing switch, I don't believe that jumper on the programing control is the on/off switch.
May be missing all together...
The only thing left is the sight glass, where the float is always on the top.
Pulled the shots and there is no water coming out of the expansion valve drains, only at the end.
It takes 24 sec to fill the shot glass to the line mark, do I stop when the crema gets there or the liquid?
Thanks,
Monito
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If the float in the site glass doesn't move at all, even after you let the water wand run for a while, then it is just stuck up there. Can you see the level of the water? Is it moving? If it is stuck and it annoys you, you can replace the whole site glass zone for less than $25. If you decide to take this approach, make sure you buy one of everything (gasket, float, bolts, etc) and two site glasses as they break very easily during installation.
The most likely culprit for exceedingly high water levels is the autofill sensor is scaled up at the bottom. This is a cheap fix as a new autofill sensor is around $20. The sensor is bolted into the top of your boiler and has the orangish cable attached to it. Just pull that cable off the top (tab connector) and unscrew (after the machine cools all_the_way_down). If it is scaled up, you can try cleaning off the scale or just buy a new one.
The intricacies for pulling shots is a subject worthy of pages of debate. To me, what is more important than pulling to a specific volume is pulling until the stream tells me it is done (blonding, striping dissipates, the crema begins to thin). You will probably need to pull about 40 million shots to recognize the line between what you like and what you dont. So many variables and so few ways to objectively measure them.
A good place to look for resources on this kind of discussion is home-barista.com.
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You will probably need to pull about 40 million shots to recognize the line between what you like and what you dont. So many variables and so few ways to objectively measure them.
Now the fun part begins! ;D
Congrats on your bargain!
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What ever happened with the machine that you found behind a Church?
Monito
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Monito,
obviously my guess on the programming was wrong :p
assuming you have too high of a fill level in the boiler and you have such high pressure that the 3 way solenoid on the headgroup leaks during a shot consider this:
one of the tubes somehow goes from pump to boiler by way of a solenoid. (in your pic 40 right rear is that 2-way solenoid) The state of that solenoid controls whether the running pump also fills the boiler (or just provides pressure to the grouphead lines)
The solenoid (3way) near the grouphead can decide whether water goes to your portafilter, to the dump or neither. That is its 3 wayness :p
If you manage to see boiler level in your sightglass (ignore the stuck ball but leave front panel off to see the entire sightglass), do the following test:
1.) trigger pump by activating manual dispense
2.) maximally restrict flow through grouphead with fine grounds or with blind disc. (pressure is altered this way not just on vibe pumps, but ALSO on rotaries)
3.) let this run for several minutes and whatch the boiler level through your sight glass. Does it rise at all? ( I know i know busted HX and that. The HX on that machine is pretty indestructible. it won't be the fault. if the HX were indeed busted the level would rise crazy fast while pressure during shot would be weak at first and then skyrocket as boiler fills)
I am not sure on this, but maybe crholliday knows for sure.
Pic 44 lower right near astoria badge. looks awfully like manual boiler overfill circuit.
Those work via 2 springs opposing each other and a little plate that can route pump pressure 3 ways. Those gum up universally on all espresso machines. you might have to take that apart and clean it.
if you have water leaving our 3-way solenoid during your lengthy shot thats probably just scale...
Since you also had the "pressure goes up nothing moves" experience, chances are really good that all you are experiencing is scale messing with either solenoids, boiler float or both.
very nice machine.
Felix
PS: on setting pressures and shot lengths. crholliday is right about HB. they have endless threads with endless detail. (Going very far on the lower end of boiler pressure will save you flushtime and $. With home volume these commercials are just so underwhelmed that they do not need the higher temp and boiler pressure they do in a cafe.)
PPS: someone rebuilt a Rio version of your machien on HB, that might have been holliday. i am not sure.
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PPS: someone rebuilt a Rio version of your machien on HB, that might have been holliday. i am not sure.
I have a Laurentis rebuild: http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html (http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html)
There are several other single and double group rebuilds just like Monito's.
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PPS: someone rebuilt a Rio version of your machien on HB, that might have been holliday. i am not sure.
I have a Laurentis rebuild: [url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html[/url] ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html[/url])
There are several other single and double group rebuilds just like Monito's.
Looks new to me...
Are the pictures after or before you bought it?
Monito
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PPS: someone rebuilt a Rio version of your machien on HB, that might have been holliday. i am not sure.
I have a Laurentis rebuild: [url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html[/url] ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html[/url])
There are several other single and double group rebuilds just like Monito's.
Looks new to me...
Are the pictures after or before you bought it?
Monito
The machine was built in 2000. The pictures are all after I bought it and started tearing it apart.
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I saw your post regarding the programming.
I am confused now too. Did you manage to program her via toggle switch or is that not the case?
If you have he 'soft' programming then the lower left (cont) button on your panel would get you there.
turn off
push cont
turn on (still holding cont)
let go of cont
push the shot profile you want to program and trigger it (upper left or upper right)
stop when desired. (with lower right prog/stop button)
turn off machine
turn on machine
button is programmed
But if you've got the switch then its done by that.
Felix
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I just looked at holliday's machine. I didn't realize he has a stainless boiler. That is excellent.
In his second picture from top (covered by a little black hoodie) you find a spring. that has a nut on top of it. This whole thing is the pressurestat. yours will very likely look extremely similar. compress spring more higher boiler pressure set point.
it seems to me you have long known how to set your pump pressure if not in his thread that adjustable screw is nicely visible. other makes such as procon look almost the same.
Should you descale with CLR like holliday did, make sure that you don't submerge the aluminum tag thats likely to be on your boiler somewhere. The acid is strong enough to cause a half cell reaction and you'll be plating your stuff :p
Same thing happens between the copper and brass that the Italians for some reason use in a cryptic mixture for a lot of the piping and threads. I have some wonderful rainbow platings on my internals now :p
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I saw your post regarding the programming.
I am confused now too. Did you manage to program her via toggle switch or is that not the case?
If you have he 'soft' programming then the lower left (cont) button on your panel would get you there.
turn off
push cont
turn on (still holding cont)
let go of cont
push the shot profile you want to program and trigger it (upper left or upper right)
stop when desired. (with lower right prog/stop button)
turn off machine
turn on machine
button is programmed
But if you've got the switch then its done by that.
Felix
Felix,
I was able to do a soft programming, but...
Your way did not work, then I replaced the "continue" step for "prog/stop"
it worked 1 time...
That is it, I have tried to do it several times, but no results ???
Monito
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yes, that is quite possible (stop/prog instead of cont to enter prog mode.)
But it only worked once eh?
Let us be sure you actually were in programming mode.
Did that happy green light blink at you when you turned it on while holding the prog. button?
it should have.
I do indeed have my camera charged again, so we will be able to use pics for insulation and other mechanical stuff down the road ;p
Felix
PS: should we keep having trouble with this programming dilly I know I can get you the manual for this in pdf format during the workweek.
(at least im pretty sure I can)
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...snip...
Did that happy green light blink at you when you turned it on while holding the prog. button?
it should have.
What light?
PS: should we keep having trouble with this programming dilly I know I can get you the manual for this in pdf format during the workweek.
(at least im pretty sure I can)
Thanks...that would be awesome!!!
Monito
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What ever happened with the machine that you found behind a Church?
Monito
Just saw this post...
I cleaned it all up and had multiple problems with lines bursting. Seems that some of the copper lines had cracked and worn from wobbling. I refabricated a couple of them from scratch, but one line wound up about 1/4" too short (as far as I could stretch things), so I have to redo that one. At that point, I wound up with yet another machine falling into my lap, which I restored and traded away. Right now I am sitting on not only the 2-group Faema, but a 2-group Futurema Lever machine that is broken down most of the way for rebuilding. When I get caught up at work (I've been way behind after my health problems last fall/winter) I hope to get back on those two...
...but I will probably finish my new high-capacity bean cooler and chaff cyclone first. I need that in place before I fire up the milk pail roaster.
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...snip...
...but I will probably finish my new high-capacity bean cooler and chaff cyclone first. I need that in place before I fire up the milk pail roaster.
I need a cooler, I tried making one, but the 5 gallon bucket from Wal-mart shrunk, I wonder if the basket needs a lot more holes?
Monito
P.S. Where do you get these machines, same goes with Chris :)
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I need a cooler, I tried making one, but the 5 gallon bucket from Wal-mart shrunk, I wonder if the basket needs a lot more holes?
Try using a 20qt stainless steel stockpot with the bottom cut out, and use a stainless steel grease 'spatter screen' for the bottom. I have one of those attached to the lid of a 5 gallon bucket, with a kitchen stove vent fan mounted inside the bucket. The air inlet is a series of 2" holes on the sides of the bucket below where the fan is mounted. This blows 2-3# of beans to ambient T in about a minute, but unfortunately blows chaff all over the room (and me). That is why I am working on the chaff cyclone...
I also got a powerful squirrel cage blower to replace the kitchen fan so that I can up the load to 5-10# (the range of the Milk Pail roaster).
P.S. Where do you get these machines?
I have a network of folks that I ply with homeroast, and they are pretty good about keeping me informed when any coffee equipment turns up. ;D
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The green light next to your steamwand should turn on when the boiler refills.
Either your toggle switch (on/off) itself or the boiler refill should blink at you when you turn on the machine and entered prog mode.
I don't know about this machine specifically, but usually it actually isn't the boiler refill as that is often simply connected to the 2 way solenoid i pointed out and turns on only when that solenoid is open. Lucky for us, italian engineers hate complex electrical circuits as much as we hate dealing with the circuits they create...
You can look at the wires for the two lights and easily determine what has the capability to be turned on by the circuit-board on the prog panel.
The prog. panel itself also has little dillys that could light up.
In either case, if nothing blinked at you. We never got there.
I will hunt that manual down monday or tuesday.
Felix
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I finally figure it out!!!
Machine on
Hold the "Prog/Stop" until all lights come on
click on the button you want to program
click that same button to stop
That's it!!!
I noticed that the "cont." button can also be programmed
Thanks,
Monito
P.S. I wouldn't mind the manual ;)
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Hah, go get one. You deserve it on the principal that BW out drinks us both combined :p
I just noticed you asked how long a shot should be.
There are imho idiotic base rules:
They go something like this:
25-30 seconds extraction time (then people say thats from pump on to pump off if u do use preinfusion, which ur machine doesnt as is.)
volume is then claimed shot basket dependent (that makes sense)
it goes something like ca. 1.5-2 ounces per shot in basket, but since most speciality houses in america (vivace, zoka, grumpy, stumptown etc.)
pull their shots extremely ristretto, that certainly isn't true in america.
At vivace they overfill the large LM double baskets to 18-19 grams (Malachi's word not mine). I can tell you that they barely hit the 2 ounce mark in their cup with those shots.
Then in terms of when you cut it off people often say 'when it blonds'. That's sometimes hard to see when I roasted light. (going from tiger stripes to homogeneous light color)
what is de facto really easy to see, is this time point where the stream suddenly collapes into a much faster running and less voluminous stream. (on HB it was explained as a point where the hydrophobic oils stopped coming and now you have stronger hydrogen bonding and thus no crema but denser 'water'.)
That point is always obvious, and that is where I usually cut.
This shot, went very 'ristretto' and i just ended the show @ 38seconds, but it certainly had not blonded yet as you can see.
And you just gave me the mother of all excuses to also go and pull a shot.
That is where these pics r from. ( You do not need a naked basket at all to see that stream collapsing.)
The coffee pulled there is 50/50 of Hannan's brazil/ yemen. it really is very tasty.
Puck: (double basket in case you wanted to see how much i dosed. certainly not overdosed. that is the LM double basket)
The pic with the empty cup is so you can see size relations the shot is in a standard small demitasse not a cappa cup. So i pulled something like barely over an ounce in 38 seconds, violated all rules and it didn't taste bitter at all.
The empty cup is just to show that I pulled the shot without going so fine that grounds went through the basket.
pressure was on the higher side possibly near ten or so. I don't bother measuring pressure exactly. You can tell when its off because the crema looks funny. I actually get more crema a lower pressures.
I hope that 6pm shot entertained :p
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Oooh, i just noticed. You can see that I insulated the groupheads if you look at the grouphead in the background. That aluminum foil double bags a volume of glass wool (with plastic between the aluminum foil because I am paranoid about protecting my food from glass fibers.)
Felix
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Felix, I bet it would taste better about 270 degrees cooler.
;D
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Lol, yeah that would be some hot espresso at 483F :p
Felix
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I'm learning and waiting for my tamper...
Monito
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Hey,
looks like a good start :p
very tough to produce anything drinkable at all without a tamper.
I have a triple basket, and although it fits into regular bottomless portafilters the inner diameter is just a mm or so more (so maybe 59mm).
This makes it so that neither my 57mm nor my 58mm fit in there really tightly.
The cups come out ok, but if you look at the bottomless extraction it is really obvious that the coffee just comes from a halo shaped extraction from the edges.
I am absolutely sure that your tamper will immediately take you light years further into good espresso :P
In the pic you posted it is difficult to say whether the shot ran too long, or whether the water just gushes through the puck.
or whether it is doing just fine. Was the stream that homogenous (even colored) to the real eye?
Did the stream run quickly like water or more like a staticy goo? (it is the best way I can think of describing the way the hydrophobic crema behaves. I bet BW would have a better description of it as I am clearly not the only one who did chemistry as undergrad degree)
The stream looks blond, but that could be the flash, because what is in those shotglasses looks like essence of AWESOMENESS sprinkled with excellence. It makes me want to drink it anyways.
cheers,
Felix
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It took about 25 sec to get that shot. I do recognize a good shot with a bad one now! This morning a was in a rush and immediately recognize that water was coming down, so I'm in a bad mood now!!!
I will post more pictures when my tamper comes, take a look at my knock box...I took a piece of wood and stuck it in and old bowl. ;D
Monito
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That knockbox is just my kind of piece. No plastic. simple and robust.
very functional. I can say i like that.
Felix
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I just wasted $4 in a double shot (so he says) ::)
I asked for a double shot to a guy in a coffee cart.
I saw the shot coming down nice and dark, 5 sec later the shot turned brown, then water down light brown (for a long time) ???, as a get my shot there was no crema and it was like drinking a bad cup of coffee. The coffee had at least 50% Robusta.
I now can compare, I can say that I haven't made any espressos like that.
Monito
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Oh, I know how you felt :p
Felix
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How can I unclog the hot water wand?
Water comes out for 2 sec then steam with water, seems clogged.
I also had the water level float stuck on the top, I decided to add scale remover in the tank. It actually fixed it.
Green and brown stuff came out of the water wand.
Also I took the pressure gauge apart and fixed it, it is working now.
Thanks,
Monito
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How can I unclog the hot water wand?
Water comes out for 2 sec then steam with water, seems clogged.
I also had the water level float stuck on the top, I decided to add scale remover in the tank. It actually fixed it.
Green and brown stuff came out of the water wand.
Sounds like you need to break down the whole water wand supply and soak it in descaler. You obviously have some deferred maintenance that needs to be dealt with. I would trace the wand assembly to the copper pipe that connects it to the boiler. Take it all apart and descale.
Did you drain the boiler after you added scale remover?
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...snip...
Did you drain the boiler after you added scale remover?
Yes and No, if you mean, remove the bottom pipe to drain it, No.
However, I went through a lot of water cycles, I mean a lot...
Monito
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However, I went through a lot of water cycles, I mean a lot...
Did you just open up the water wand and let her rip? Can you explain that?
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However, I went through a lot of water cycles, I mean a lot...
Did you just open up the water wand and let her rip? Can you explain that?
Yes, correct (here is where I got a lot of dirty water)
I also pull a a lot of blank shots...
Monito
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However, I went through a lot of water cycles, I mean a lot...
Did you just open up the water wand and let her rip? Can you explain that?
Yes, correct (here is where I got a lot of dirty water)
I also pull a a lot of blank shots...
Monito
Ah hah, we are getting closer. How did you get the scale remover into the machine?
Pulling blank shots on an HX machines is only pulling water through the heat exchanger which does not share water with the boiler. So if you sucked descaler in while pulling a shot, it never actually made it into the boiler. If you sucked it in when the autofill kicked on or by using the manual fill lever for the boiler then it would get inside there.
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Heeeh monito,
if you managed to dump the descaler into the tank, I presume u unscrewed the safety valve on top or something liek that?
(since you fixed the hot water spout with it, i am going to assume you got it into the boiler)
Holliday is quite right to say the boiler is separate from your grouphead/HX circuits.
If you did indeed get descaler into the boiler, you need to get it out carefully.
This is how I do it:
1.) +descaler
2.) boil to temp / run wands and hot water spout a lot.
3.) turn machine off / let cool
4.) open drain plug near water sightglass (don't lose the float)
-there is something important to note here. You may have loosened a lot of hardcore scale if you want to avoid clogging lines on the drain it is often good to leave the water as warm as you can stand it without burning your hands here.
5.) Refill boiler normally
6.) go to step 2.)
7.) loop a few more times.
Lucky for you, you have not drank any descaler unless you used your steam wands :p
Regards,
Felix
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Correct, that is what I did...To my surprise today, my water line finally unclogged with valve opened while pushing the manual filler (lots of water coming out).
But, after boiler started, it clogged again...I guess I can continue do in it, including the sight glass floater.
Yeah, I new about the HX coming from the water line...
Thanks,
Monito
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Correct, that is what I did...To my surprise today, my water line finally unclogged with valve opened while pushing the manual filler (lots of water coming out).
But, after boiler started, it clogged again...I guess I can continue do in it, including the sight glass floater.
...snip...
Found out from Astoria that the hot water wand is supposed to splash water all over the place...
New retail value for a new Astoria just like mine...$5,100 ouch!!! that is Euro for you!
Monito
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Italian engineering, Passionate :p
Your water spout is very fixable not matter what they tell you.
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Italian engineering, Passionate :p
Your water spout is very fixable not matter what they tell you.
We were actually talking about a brand new one, mine was never mentioned...
I want to make it a steam line...
What do you think?
Monito
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Italian engineering, Passionate :p
Your water spout is very fixable not matter what they tell you.
We were actually talking about a brand new one, mine was never mentioned...
I want to make it a steam line...
What do you think?
Monito
You could add a T coupler to the line that supplies your pressure gauge, but you can't use the existing plumbing to make your water wand into a steam wand and have it only produce steam. The T coupler would be a huge PITA though. Why would you want to do this?
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Whether steam comes out or water is tough to change. Steam leaves by virtue of the pressure in the tank and the fact that the piping ends in the top 1/3 of your tank.
Your water wand draws from near the bottom of the tank, typically right next to an inlet. When you turn the water wand on, notice your pump turning on. Water volume leaving rapidly de-pressurizes the tank (compared to steam leaving), thats why the pump adds water at the same time. The inlet to the tank near your water "exit" has an economizer that determines the mixture of cold and actual hot boiler water that end out of your water spout.
Does that makes sense to you?
So making it a 3rd steam outlet would not make terribly much sense to me. I am a little lost as to what it is NOT doing for you that constitutes the problem.
Are you willing to show an action shot of the spray/dribble/ clog?
I am pretty sure we can fix it in one day of back and forth.
Felix
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I was showing my dad my espressos last night and What a beautiful color and flavor...I only tasted "ONE" espresso at SCAA better than mine, "Intelligentsia"...
Monito
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doesn't that feel great?
Lo and behold it happens without obsessing Scace pressure style, thermocouple temp style or any of that :p
I am very pleased you love that machine!
Felix