Astoria Espresso?

[Monito]

I found this in my area, Is it woth it?



"This Astoria espresso/cappuccino machine is in great working condition. The water softener/conditioner needs to be recharged but it and the motor/pump are also in great working condition. Brand new these units are over $4000! I bought this machine a number of years ago from an auction when a caf? went out of business and had it completely refurbished. Since then it has only been installed in our kitchen where it was very lightly used. And when we used it, it made a great cup of espresso. It is an industrial machine and can stand up to restaurant use. Below is a link to the web page that best describes this model. The unit on the web page is slightly smaller than mine but it is the same design. It also includes an automatic froth maker that attaches directly to the steamer. This will pump milk directly from the carton, froth it and dispense it right into your cup, perfectly. I paid $125 for this piece alone! You get the Astoria machine, motor/pump, water conditioner, two porta-filter handles (one single spout and one double) and two filter baskets. I need the money so the first $500 takes away the complete system."

Thanks,

Monito

[nunubie]

If it is as good as advertised, I think it is a steal.  We have a 2 group Laurentis, which is made
by the same manufacturer.  It does make great shots, I don't know anything about the auto
frother but the fact that you are getting the filter and water softener too, for $500, it is a
great price.

My $.02 worth.

nunubie

[Chris]

I would only insist that they have it hooked up and show you that everything works.

If not, they might be hiding something.

[Monito]

I would only insist that they have it hooked up and show you that everything works.

If not, they might be hiding something.

I just told him that I'll go see it now.
I just went there and the machine is gorgeous, I have to admit I was very tempted to buy it without even trying it. But my friend told me that if the controller is broken, I'm looking at around $400 just for the controller.

Tomorrow (April's fools day) I'll be testing this beauty...which me luck...

The machine is the older model that the pump sits outside, it comes with a water softener, 2 porta filters, 1 single and 1 double filter basket.
The guy seems like a very nice person.

What am I looking for when I connect it?
Water pumping fine?
etc?

Monito

[Chris]

I would probably look for:

Water pumps through group and hot water wand
Steam steams through steam wand
Pressure gauge looks right
Temp is hot enough
No weird noises or rattles (though they may end up being inconsiquental)
No leaks

Also make sure your outlet can handle the voltage/amperage, as it may be a 240V or 110V with a 20A requirement, neither of which are very standard.

[PaulM]

Don't be shy about asking to remove the top and have a look inside. Tough to say what to look for there (maybe some water stains from an old leak? Some obviously amateur repair work?), but it will either look fine or there will be something that makes you wonder, and give you something to ask the seller. Also, if the machine has a programmable shot pad on the front, try all of the buttons and then ask the guy to demonstrate how to program them. You could find out how to program them later of course, but this will at least show you that the programming function works -electronics can be expensive. That said it looks like a heck of a deal, even if some repairs are necessary.

[Monito]

Don't be shy about asking to remove the top and have a look inside. Tough to say what to look for there (maybe some water stains from an old leak? Some obviously amateur repair work?), but it will either look fine or there will be something that makes you wonder, and give you something to ask the seller. Also, if the machine has a programmable shot pad on the front, try all of the buttons and then ask the guy to demonstrate how to program them. You could find out how to program them later of course, but this will at least show you that the programming function works -electronics can be expensive. That said it looks like a heck of a deal, even if some repairs are necessary.

He lifted it up to look at the water fittings. I did see some white spots around it inside, but nothing odd. I have to assume that the white spots are from the steam.

Chris

I'll write your notes down and bring them with me.

Thank you all,

Monito

P.S. I which the pump was inside...

[Monito]

I would probably look for:

Water pumps through group and hot water wand
Steam steams through steam wand
Pressure gauge looks right
Temp is hot enough
No weird noises or rattles (though they may end up being inconsiquental)
No leaks

Also make sure your outlet can handle the voltage/amperage, as it may be a 240V or 110V with a 20A requirement, neither of which are very standard.

I have several 20A outlets at home...I added one for my roaster
The Kitchen, laundry room, Garage and computer room.
I think this beast is going in the garage... 

Wife is a clean freak...

If I find leaks and I tight the fittings is that OK?
How hot should the water be?
I noticed that the pressure gage has a green zone (I'll assume is when the water is ready to make an espresso)
How long between shots?

Monito

[Chris]

I would probably look for:

Water pumps through group and hot water wand
Steam steams through steam wand
Pressure gauge looks right
Temp is hot enough
No weird noises or rattles (though they may end up being inconsiquental)
No leaks

Also make sure your outlet can handle the voltage/amperage, as it may be a 240V or 110V with a 20A requirement, neither of which are very standard.

I have several 20A outlets at home...I added one for my roaster
The Kitchen, laundry room, Garage and computer room.
I think this beast is going in the garage... 

Wife is a clean freak...

If I find leaks and I tight the fittings is that OK?
Maybe, but sometimes it will require new seals or O-Rings

How hot should the water be?
Well steam should look like steam, hot water should be almost boiling, water from the group needs to be in the 195-205F, so you will see some whisps of steam there too.  You would know if it was too cool.

I noticed that the pressure gage has a green zone (I'll assume is when the water is ready to make an espresso)
That sounds right.

How long between shots?
Not sure if I would worry about that part.

Monito

[PaulM]

I agree with Chris, but would just add that the reason you should be looking at how well it heats up does not have to do with what the temperature actually is (which on a functional machine would be adjustable), but just to make sure that you don't have a broken heating element (or two). If the machine can produce steam, that pretty much confirms that the element(s) are ok. Also, the most expensive leak you can have is a leak from the boiler in a place where there is no gasket, usually on a seam somewhere. Tightening down is free, o-rings and gaskets are cheap, but a breach of the boiler skin requires replacement of the boiler or a good friend or family member who is a talented metalworker.

I forget, is this an HX machine or a double boiler? If it is an HX, and there is water level indicator for the boiler (meaning a window where you can see the boiler fill level from the front of the machine), watch that window while shots are pulled to make sure the boiler is not filling at the same time. If it is, the HX is ruptured, and that would be at least as bad as having a leaky boiler.

...which is not to say that it would be a deal killer, given the outrageously good price! But if that is the case you would want to price out a new boiler before making an offer.

Good luck! Assuming no major problems I envy you for this deal.

[Monito]

...snip... or a good friend or family member who is a talented metalworker.

I got one of those...

I forget, is this an HX machine or a double boiler? If it is an HX, and there is water level indicator for the boiler (meaning a window where you can see the boiler fill level from the front of the machine), watch that window while shots are pulled to make sure the boiler is not filling at the same time. If it is, the HX is ruptured, and that would be at least as bad as having a leaky boiler.

It is an HX, so if the window grows in size while the shot is being pulled then is it a bad boiler?

Would it be a good test, if I let water run in manual mode, then watch the water level?

When should the water level raise?

Good luck! Assuming no major problems I envy you for this deal.

Thank you,

Monito

[PaulM]

The water level in the boiler should only rise when the boiler autofill solenoid tells it to. Unless the water in the boiler happens to be low enough to trigger the autofill, it should never rise when either pulling a shot or drawing hot water from the boiler.

I don't mean to get you alarmed about this, I only mentioned it because it is something that can happen to machines that are stored carelessly in freezing temperatures. If this machine probably was not stored in freezing temperatures, it is unlikely to be a problem. But if it was, what can happen is that the water in the HX, which is really just a metal tube passing through the boiler, can freeze, expand, and rupture the HX inside the boiler. The only practical way to know if that has happened is to see if the boiler seems to fill while you are trying to pull a shot.

Hope that helps,
Paul

[Monito]

The water level in the boiler should only rise when the boiler autofill solenoid tells it to. Unless the water in the boiler happens to be low enough to trigger the autofill, it should never rise when either pulling a shot or drawing hot water from the boiler.

I don't mean to get you alarmed about this, I only mentioned it because it is something that can happen to machines that are stored carelessly in freezing temperatures. If this machine probably was not stored in freezing temperatures, it is unlikely to be a problem. But if it was, what can happen is that the water in the HX, which is really just a metal tube passing through the boiler, can freeze, expand, and rupture the HX inside the boiler. The only practical way to know if that has happened is to see if the boiler seems to fill while you are trying to pull a shot.

Hope that helps,
Paul

If this deal goes through, I will kiss the SCAA trip goodbye...

When I saw the machine today, I couldn't believe it, it was like brand new. The guy that is selling it works for the airline industry and he seems to be trustworthy. Everything around his garage seems very organized. So hopefully he took care of this baby.

Thanks,

Monito

[crholliday]

Good luck on your purchase. I have the newer rebadged version of this (Laurentis) and have been very happy. I paid $250, tore it completely apart, cleaned all the scale out, replaced all the gaskets and a few other parts and put it back together for a total of maybe $400 ( i bought a new pump).  Mine has the internal pump and I wish it was external as it uses a special ducati motor with water cooled housing that is hard to find (except via CMA).

CMA is very good to deal with. They have a knowledgable service department and seem to stock a bunch of old parts. You can also find repair and replacement parts at other locations. The machine is super easy to work on and diagnose problems (non electrical). Powering the machine up, pulling a few shots and frothing stuff will tell you most of what you need to know. Make sure you let enough steam out to induce the autofill to open and see what happens. Mine takes about 1 hour to stabilize (2 to really get everything warmed up).

Check for leaks underneathe, leaks at the 3-way solenoid discharge pipe (does it constantly drip?) and steam coming out of any of the connections on top of the boiler. See if the steam wand leaks at the swivel gasket (this is a minor repair even it if does). See if you can adjust the pressure on the pump. A frozen adjustment screw could be an indication of scale.

Other than that, you can't tell a whole lot short of opening the boiler or disconnecting some of the copper pipes to see if there is any buildup inside. I will add that I don't ever use the water wand for anything. If I am making americanos I get the water through the group (fresher). I also never use the pre-set control buttons. I pull all of my shots manually.

C.

[Monito]

How do you program a shot?

How long should a single and double be?

Thanks,

Monito