Author Topic: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?  (Read 4965 times)

Stubbie

  • Guest
Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« on: September 23, 2008, 04:54:38 AM »
Ran across a used 2-group unit that I can probably pick up for around $100.  Seller doesn't know condition, or if it even fires up.  Missing a couple of side panels.

Before I drop money on a project, what are thoughts on this brand...worth the trouble?

Seller states it is a Conti XEOS distributed by Bloomfield under the name Caf? Elite.  I'll attach a picture.

Appreciate any advice that can be thrown my way...

-Stubbie

Stubbie

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2008, 03:40:39 PM »
I've done some reading over at the 'Geek and it seems this is a decent machine, being used in small/medium sized shops.  I'm confused if it is a single/HX or double boiler yet though.  I'm not fond of the color...but at the price, it would be one heck of an addition to the espresso bar.

-Stubbie

Offline mp

  • Standard User
  • *****
  • Posts: 16800
  • Nothing like a nice shot!
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2008, 09:04:01 PM »
Looks like a bargain if you don't mind the space and the plumb in part of the equation.

 :)
1-Cnter, 2-Bean, 3-Skin, 4-Parchmnt, 5-Pect, 6-Pu
lp, 7-Ski

Offline Dante

  • Standard User
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • High on Caffeine
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2008, 01:02:29 AM »
Go for it, Brian! I had a chance to grab a used two group commercial machine (a La Cimbali) and I love it! It has sent my Quickmill Vetrano into early retirement.
No coffee, No workee!

kwksilver

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 07:50:45 AM »
Hey stubbie, upon your request I did some homework.

Conti is part of the "Italian groupieteam" in essence that is good. You will find the internals to have very high homology to the mid 90s la cimbali bistro series :)

so both lucifer and parker electricals will be fine (we will buy lucifer of course, go Swiss nazi-heritage exactitude).
If the automatic circuitboard is broken you can route it easily.

If the HX is broken any number of manufacturer HX will fit. (la cimbali won't without modifications, they are oddly short and thick)

The boiler will probably be one that cannot remove the sideplate.
(example Dante's machine from me can remove it, Milo's is a compact boiler type.)

link to Milo's thread: http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3470.msg48401#msg48401


Sorry for the ultra convoluted post.
Bottom line: If you bought it and want to rebuild it from GCBC input, grab your digital and I will be happy to return to posting activity :p

Regards,
            Felix


Offline Dante

  • Standard User
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • High on Caffeine
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 09:11:49 AM »
Felix, having used your rebuilt La Cimbali for several weeks now with absolutely no problems, I have to say that you are missing your calling, my man. The medical profession's gain is espresso world's loss! I'm glad you're back in in this forum as I have not seen you posting too much lately. I might head for NYC about the first quarter of next year. If that pushes through, it would be great to meet up with you for some coffee and espresso talk!

Cheers, Bro!
No coffee, No workee!

milowebailey

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 09:34:24 AM »
Stubbie

After going completely through the Brasilia I found that if you are mildly handy, espresso machines are fairly simple.  Lots of parts, but they only go in one place.  I also didn't need any special tools.  The hardest thing was de-scaling the tank.  Mine was very scaled. 

The only problem I had was removing the tempurature sensor.  It shattered when I removed it.  I think all in all I put about $150 into it and now I have a great commercial machine.

The great part is if I ever have an issue with it I'll probably just fix it myself.

good luck with your quest

Milowebailey

Stubbie

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 01:51:55 PM »
Felix - You are the MAN!  Looking forward to any help you might be able give.

Larry - Yeah, most of the idea on this is to see if I can't teach myself a thing or two.  Mildly handy might be a good way to describe me...generally, if you want a project to go wrong, ask for my help. :)

Alright - on with the picture show.  Sorry for the quality, they were taken with my phone

-Stubbie


Stubbie

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 01:55:42 PM »
So far, the only thing I know has to be replaced is the side covers - they were MIA when I took possession.  I may not even go back with the Conti plastic bits, opting instead to have a metalsmith make me something out of SS or Copper - we shall see...

Let me know if there are any other detailed shots I can get - I can get some better ones when the wife comes home with her 20D

-Stubbie


Offline mp

  • Standard User
  • *****
  • Posts: 16800
  • Nothing like a nice shot!
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 02:02:43 PM »
Congratulations on your new machine Stubbie ... hope you enjoy!

 :occasion14:
1-Cnter, 2-Bean, 3-Skin, 4-Parchmnt, 5-Pect, 6-Pu
lp, 7-Ski

kwksilver

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 11:16:07 PM »
machine looks good.
motor was replaced pump is procon with filter. clean that (in pic its the big nut coming off the brass colored pump at a 45 degree downard angle / 5 o'clock facing pump with motor behind[front of silver motor])


want to give her a rebuild?

buy:

1 jug acid 

(either high molar HCL from chem supplier, Muriatic acid from pool supply or CLR from plumbing / hardware. it is all the same chemically [I have a chemistry degree I vouch for this lie])  [don't try citric or vinegar it won't make you happy in the boiler and you will have all the time in the world to rinse this. if your paranoid you can bathe everything in a baking soda solution before assembling for freak level safety. {you better rinse the acid bath with water first obviously}

buy whatever you want for insulation of your boiler.

You do want to do that. Fancy is neoprene (less than .5inches thick) with cable binders. I like glasswool pipewrap as dante saw. its cheap easy to remove and i hate plastic. cover the glasswool with aluminum foil on both sides and it is very safe and very ugly :P

Buy 2 grouphead screens.

1 big gasket for your heating element  (both at cafeparts.com espressoparts prlly wont do u on a conti)

the poopy wiring at homedepot is actually the appliance grade wiring thats good for 125 celsius so you can use that.

The head gaskets are big and connect the grouphead to your portafilter. they might be needed, if you don't love maintenance buy them too since you R in there.

DON'T buy screws from the supply pirates...

you need a nonsuds detergent too! Joeglo is automatic dishwashing detergent... again it isn't different but they pretend it is:p  (I still own joeglo because I'm a good gullible consumer like that)

Tools:

wirebrush (king)
big buckets (big enough for your boiler, two of them unless your wife surrenders the bathtub)
 hex and screwdrivers, vice grip

big rubber gloves (the yellow cleaning glove type is great)



How you wanna tear her down:

two choices
1.) just get her running
2.) clean her


1.)if you just want her running we assess what she needs.


2.)If you want to clean the inside of the boiler, there is no reason to test anything. (it may be pointless if it came from a proper water softened inlet. even after ten years!!!)  In this case tear her apart by going like this:

a.) panels off set aside for scrubbing and cleaning session

b.) tag every wire with a description and take a picture with the tag on before you pull it off :)  (this isn't that critical if you mess up I can tell you where it goes)

c.) groupheads go first tear them all the way apart.

d.) steamwands and inlet pipes too

e.) now you have a collection of small parts bathe everything in acid solution  [at MOST you need 1:50 acid:water; water as HOT as you can get it that drives the solubility of the scale!!! Hotter and less acid is safer and faster] (hot water spout, inlet from pump to boiler, 2 steamwands 2 groupheads.)

f.) the above step was really all the tricky small parts, lego puzzle them back together now. The steamwands will wand some grease at the joint. The white teflon rings you have found by now can look as mangled as they want you don't have to replace them.

g.) the solenoid valves were hopefully taken apart and bathed too (no mercy here that is important) [ don't bathe the actual electrical solenoids!]

h.) you now have all the tubes and their functional groups that went into the boiler shiny and rebuilt aside (if the small black rubber rings inside the solenoids got lost replace they rarely get brittle really)

i.) take the boiler out and remove the heating element from the side. Toss the junk gasket here.

j.) scoop as much as you can out the scale is in flakes. No flakes? your case is very minor.

k.) bathe both the heatign element and the boiler in entire form. (not assembled doh...) [on top the safety relief valve can also swim with them but be CERTAIN it's spring is smooth after the bath or we will replace that.

l.) Now you have the optional joy of doodling your frame (painting). Since your machien is sort of stainless its pointless but if you wanted it you would remove the pump assembly and the brainbox  and go at it.

INTERRUPT::::: just looked at your pump pressure screw on pic at boiler right. You will likely have a ton of scale...so don't skip your pseudorebuild. do it! (if that white "corona alba" aroudn the screw facing the camera on the pump pic is made of scale your in for some fun and a slight leak at the screw. fixed by removing screw and addign a small amoutn of teflon tape [normal...]


YUP look at water connection inlet pipes you will have plenty or scale.

otherwise this machien did not see heavy use I seriously doubt anything will be broken.



How to fire her up if you must (or after your teardown):

If the pump has water you don't need any water pressure it just doesnt like drystarting. It isn't poopy like a diaphragm, but its not great to have the vane dryspin for long.

What does that mean?

Since we are safety and leak minded we want to start her with a limited water supply and not on a direct line. if the bucket is higher than the machine initially that is good enough in terms of getting your pump wet. After that it can lift over 2 meters (over 6 feet) and could care less.

You have to give the machine time to fill the entire boiler before switching on the heating element. Lucky for you every commercial machine has that 3 way switch :)


Now write to me and list all the things that don't work :)


postscriptum:  After a lot of typos and babble I would love all the same pics with the higher resolution. feel free to use a wider camera angle capturing all of the sorroundings. Layout really tells me more than up close things. I know how every part looks as an individual. They are all the same. What interests me the most iswiring and general layout shots as those will help us make sure that you get her back together. (Don't worry its really easy, honestly)































kwksilver

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 11:47:47 PM »
two more things :p

your corrosion pic is due to the gaskets in that solenoid valve. See that?  (so order those, most likely you just have to tighten them but its penny parts)


The way you labeled one picture makes me think you are possibly confused about where this girls HX are :)

It is a fun riddle on this one. follow the inlet water to the grouphead. (with the three way solenoid is usually the dump tube. check and follow it)
The scheme should be hat you find the pump delivering pressurized water to a junction that goes to the boiler (just for filling it) and to the groupheads. This water is cold and under pressure. This water enters the grouphead brass and then goes towards the rear of the grouphead where it dips into the tank.  THAT is by definition the HX. The water will exchange heat with the boielr temp and flow towards the front of the grouphead where it bathes in coffee :P

In your pic (TOPVIEW) the blakc rectangle is the solenoid that allows hot pressurized water through the coffeebed or out the dumptubes. This is what a  machine must have for backflushes (which is why home thingies on the low end don't like backflushing)

the common inlet line for both groupheads seems to cross from right to left each time passing by a most italian solution of a gate...

The automatic logicboard then works by controlling both of the solenoids (the threeway and the on/off cold inlet)

THey could make due with 3 solenoids in the machine, but that would mean they would have to use their brain making the logicboard.
1.) 2 way solenoid for boilerfill-> wired to float
2.) one three way solenoid allowing cold water to enter the HX andbypassing the coffee at shot end.

Instead you most likely have each grouphead with 2 solenoids acting separately. I can tell from the hardware that the main group solenoid is a 3 way device nonetheless :p I would love to see the wiring diagram for that circuitboard???????

Can you get a shot of the entire top plumbing? a shot of the dumproute?

A shot of the solenoid for the hot water spout and the plumbing supplying that?

I want to make sure I don't BS you. But I am pretty convinced they avoided a complex circuitboard and simply have one of the solenoids on a  glorified shutoff timer, while the other responds to the manual override :) That is high in hardware cost, but means your machine functions in manual mode even if the board is fried without changing a single wire.

[the 2-way solenoid would be "on" by default and your pushing an autobutton would open the manual 3-way and trigger a shutoff time for the 2-way supplying the water. We can test for this later. If it is done the cheap way the dump is a lot more boring in auto mode and the low pressure remainder of your shot goes into your cup not into the dump tube. Manual is unaffected and shines like a rockstar)




PS: she is 220V but you noticed that right?  Deep dark secret: You can undervolt both the motor of the pump and the heater and nothing other than slowpoke happens. The pump actually still generates enough pressure. Most motors don't care. Those who do are replaced with a $50 investment.  Heating elements positively do not give a rats bumm. Your logicboard doesnt care either as it is supplied by 12 or 24 volts. if you want to know which, look at your solenoids whatever voltage they state is the same as what the circuitboards use.If the solenoid says 24V they could still be running them at less. The manufacturer is cheap he likes the same low voltage for everything and the same high voltage for everything.  The transformer that turns it into 12/ 24v usually does his job over a very reasonable voltage range. I have positively driven some 220V machines on 110V!  (you loose the awesome balls, so its a bit pointless and you do NEED insulation at that point)


PPS: The safety valve has gone off more than once or twice? I don't like that.  I can't tell with certainty from the pic. Look on top of the boiler and decide for yourself. its the upside down bellshaped doodle. It is more likely to be a valve leaking on the "safe" side than constant overpressure don't be alarmed.



AAh, I hate myself for writing so much stupid stuff. I can already see myself getting. I promise I didn't lie, but I probably simplified some things.





milowebailey

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2008, 08:06:59 AM »
Subbie

As Felix said you may want to fire it up and see what works..... I did that so I knew the shape of the machine before I tore it down, even though tearing it down was my plan in the first place.  I used a dryer cord for the test (I had to battle Mrs. Milowebailey for power a few times) and then eventually wired in a 220V 20 amp outlet for the machine.

As for mine I only had to clean it, replace some gaskets and rebuild my hot water valve..... oh and replace the temp sensor I broke taking it apart.

Once you are ready to tear it down... make sure you get good photos from all angle to help in figuring out where all the parts go.  Espesso machines may not work well if you have parts left over ;D  You may also want to label any wiring.

I soaked everything except the electrical component.  Took all the valves apart, the solenoids, tubing, heating element.....

The tank I soaked 3 or 4 times.  As Felix told me, break up the big scale with a long screwdriver... or something similar.  I used a 2' lenghth of copper pipe I had laying around.  Then soak it... then break up more... then soak it again.  Eventually you'll get all the scale out.

Make sure you rinse and rinse and rinse.  Gotta get all the acid out.

Felix is a great source of information...

Milowebailey

Stubbie

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2008, 10:49:59 AM »
This is a ton of advice to get started...man, thanks guys!

I got a little ahead of myself and started tearing down yesterday, planning on just cleaning it up a bit before I gave it a test run to see how it acted.  The only piece that I took apart that wasn't cosmetic was the heater element into the boiler.  After draining the nearly 1 gallon of water out of the tank and seeing little flakes of scale in the drained water, I wasn't sure what to expect.  Once I looked inside, either this machine has seen little use, or they were really good about using a water filter all the time.  There is little to no scale inside the boiler :)  I'll try and take some pics and post them up in a bit.

I didn't really see a gasket on the heating element when I took it off, although I'm sure there is/was one.  Looking on CafeParts.com - there are 3 heater element gaskets listed, so I am confused which one I need.  One is $.97, another is $2.10 and the other is $16.18  I'll prolly need the most expensive one huh? :)

-Stubbie

milowebailey

  • Guest
Re: Conti XEOS Commercial Machine - Advice?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2008, 10:59:21 AM »
Stubbie

Here is a site that has parts list/diagrams.... I don't know if it't for yours or not but it is for a Conti.... I would assume by the diagram that it's the one you need.  The gasket is ~$7

http://www.coffeestuff.com/conti1.html

Edit: More info here
http://www.moschetti.com/7_support/2_parts/2_parts_conti/2_xeos/xeos.htm
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 11:10:16 AM by milowebailey »