Breville Cafe Roma / Baratza Virtuosa

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

Ok.. before you start de-staring me... the Breville esp8xl is on loan and the Baratza is perfect for all my current brewing practices and I am not in a position to buy anything

I know the grinder is not the best for espresso but I have the opportunity to dabble in espresso so help me out please...

Friend got this machine for small events and it needs a portafilter, found that at the gourmet depot but I am curious?

what temp should I be seeing at the group head?  (151f till the heat light comes back on)

What can I do to maximize my espresso making experience (considering my low quality equipment environment)

[MMW]

That's got a pressurized PF, right?

If it does, get rid of that thing.  I'm playing around with my little Krups (Kraps) XP4050 something or other (it's what I've got and the wife is adamant about no more purchases for a while, so I'm stuck with it  )-- once I cut the bottom off the PF basket with a steady hand and a dremel I started to get something resembling espresso.  I cut a hole out of some 1/4 in wood I had laying around to act as a clamp to hold down the basket...works great if you have a set of hole saws laying about.

151 F?  Is that flowing water during a blank?  If so, I would think it needs to be a bit higher than that.  Or am I off my meds and not understanding the question?

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

That's got a pressurized PF, right?

If it does, get rid of that thing.  I'm playing around with my little Krups (Kraps) XP4050 something or other (it's what I've got and the wife is adamant about no more purchases for a while, so I'm stuck with it  )-- once I cut the bottom off the PF basket with a steady hand and a dremel I started to get something resembling espresso.  I cut a hole out of some 1/4 in wood I had laying around to act as a clamp to hold down the basket...works great if you have a set of hole saws laying about.

151 F?  Is that flowing water during a blank?  If so, I would think it needs to be a bit higher than that.  Or am I off my meds and not understanding the question?

well I am (like you) stuck... so I am playing with what I have  (usually not a full deck) I am thinking of converting a portafilter but cant even get one of those right now (don't want to butcher the only one) and the temp was higher... thermometer was bad.... and machine needed a little descaling... (just did the lemon water thang a few times)...  waiting on a few missing pieces and then at least my friend will have a portable solution for espresso.. I know its not a great machine but, its a stepping stone...

[grinderz]

I've never played with one of those, but I've had good luck taking the pressure bits out of the pressurized Saeco type portafilters. Is the portafilter able to be disassembled? Usually, all you have to do is remove a spring to disable the pressure feature.

[Tex]

Ok..

SNIPPED

what temp should I be seeing at the group head?  (151f till the heat light comes back on)

It might help you know what the brewing temp is: http://tinyurl.com/37pnul; but there's nothing you can do about it. Basically, you'd make better coffee with a $29 Aeropress or $5 Melitta drip cone.
 

[grinderz]

How are you measuring the temps?

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

How are you measuring the temps?

I got higher readings after de scaling.... I am sticking a thermometer in the water as it drops out... getting pretty close to 190 so its probably ok... will find out when I get the odd ball pieces that are missing... I will see if there is a way to de pressurize the portafilter

the more I read hear and elsewere the more I realize it will be a great way to practice the basics but not going to develop any barista world champ winning skills on this thang   

[ButtWhiskers]

You might buy yourself a couple more degrees if you use RO or distilled water.  You definitely want to pre-infuse for at least 5 seconds before pulling a shot, as well.  Once you have an idea of how long it takes from starting the pump to seeing the first dribble, stop the pump for 5 or 10 seconds after that length of time.  This can make a huge difference on some of these low end machines.  I used a Saeco POS for the better part of a (very sad) year, and you can learn a few tricks that can make your shotz acceptable.

[grinderz]

Oooh!!! I've got some 'sperimenting to do.

I never thought of trying to pre-infuse. I've been using a Estro Vapore (Saeco Barista) for the last 10 years. The pressurizer parts got removed from the portafilter long ago. Am I likely to achieve any benefit form preinfusing?

[mp]

Oooh!!! I've got some 'sperimenting to do.

I never thought of trying to pre-infuse. I've been using a Estro Vapore (Saeco Barista) for the last 10 years. The pressurizer parts got removed from the portafilter long ago. Am I likely to achieve any benefit form preinfusing?

Yeah ... with any luck and a good Italian grinder ... you may get a hint of crema.

 

[grinderz]

How are you measuring the temps?

I got higher readings after de scaling.... I am sticking a thermometer in the water as it drops out... getting pretty close to 190 so its probably ok... will find out when I get the odd ball pieces that are missing... I will see if there is a way to de pressurize the portafilter

the more I read hear and elsewere the more I realize it will be a great way to practice the basics but not going to develop any barista world champ winning skills on this thang   

All that matters is that you like what you're getting out of it. 

A more accurate way to measure would be to poke your temp prob through the side of a styrofoam cup towards the bottom like so: 

\   /
 \_/^___?

[Tex]

A more accurate way to measure would be to poke your temp prob through the side of a styrofoam cup towards the bottom like so: 

\   /
 \_/^___?

Here's a link that shows two ways of doing this test: http://tinyurl.com/7pxml5.

[ButtWhiskers]

Oooh!!! I've got some 'sperimenting to do.

I never thought of trying to pre-infuse. I've been using a Estro Vapore (Saeco Barista) for the last 10 years. The pressurizer parts got removed from the portafilter long ago. Am I likely to achieve any benefit form preinfusing?

Absolutely.  Since you know what you are after (25 seconds to pull your shot - not counting infusion), without the pressure disc, and with a decent grind/tamp and preinfusion, you should get 1/3 crema and better extraction than many drive-throughs sell. 

[grinderz]

Oooh!!! I've got some 'sperimenting to do.

I never thought of trying to pre-infuse. I've been using a Estro Vapore (Saeco Barista) for the last 10 years. The pressurizer parts got removed from the portafilter long ago. Am I likely to achieve any benefit form preinfusing?

Absolutely.  Since you know what you are after (25 seconds to pull your shot - not counting infusion), without the pressure disc, and with a decent grind/tamp and preinfusion, you should get 1/3 crema and better extraction than many drive-throughs sell. 

Well, I'm already getting that (loads of crema and seemingly good extraction)... and it usually takes 7-8 seconds from the time the pump starts for the pour to start. How long should a typical preinfusion last?

[ButtWhiskers]

Just to clarify, I am defining 'the crema fraction' as the emulsion remaining after 90 seconds, after the CO2 'fizzies' have bubbled away.  I can have 100% foamie/fizzie stuff at the cessation of the shot, but the galactomannin-stabilized emulsion of oils that stays put is what I call crema.

If it took me 7-8 seconds from the time the pump started until the pour started, I would run the pump for 7 seconds, stop it for 5 seconds to allow expansion, then pull for 25 seconds.  That infusion/expansion step reduces channeling and improves extraction in these lower end vibe pump machines.