Got a sec to help a fella out RE: espresso machines?

[MMW]

My espresso machine literally took a dump on me last night and my wife has informed me that the purse string are open...a little bit for a new machine.  Problem:  there's too many with TMI in conflicting reviews.  I have a budget of <= $600 for the machine (hopefully with a RR45 on its way to cover the grinding).

My espresso history is simple:  I've had a Krupps Auto for a couple of years (not the worst mistake I've ever made, but certainly noteworthy) and just recently began getting something resembling espresso after depressurizing the PF and using good, fresh beans.

My wants are also simple:  I'd like a machine that has a brass boiler, 3-way valve, and can handle straight shots for me and a latte or cap for my wife.  It needs to be reliable with decent (or better) parts availability.  Looks are of close to zero importance with me so long as it's not pink or lime green or something strange like that.  A standard sized grouphead/PF would be nice as would the ability to plumb it in.  Ideally, a HX machine seems like it would suit my needs but they are also out of my price range.

I've got things narrowed a bit thus far with a couple of questions interspersed:

2005 used Sylvia -- $400
new blemished box Sylvia -- $529

Is the new adjustable OPV on the Sylvia V2 plus warranty worth the extra $130?  These seem to hold value extremely well.  Well supported.  Easy to add PID once technique is down.

LeLit PL41 -- $459 dollars.  Price is good, but has a goofy 57mm PF

Gaggia New Baby, Baby Twin, Baby Class, Classic -- $320, $419, $399, $550 dang there's a lot of these things in my price range.  What gives?  Any particular one that much better than the others?  Small aluminum boilers give these a minus in my book.  Price is nice on these...a couple of hundred bucks will buy A LOT of greens 

Honorable mention slightly out of price range:  Refurb Gaggia Achille $662 (and all the lever action learning curve to follow) and the Isomac Venus at $699.

In short, if you were buying a espresso machine today and had $600 or less to spend, what would you be buying?  BTW:  if you've made it this far, thanks for reading the whole thing!

[John F]

Watch me now give you some seemingly crazy advice....

If you were happy with the coffee from the Krups and as you say your espresso requirements are simple go with the Gaggia and spend the extra cash on the grinder and beans.

The Gaggia will be a better machine than you had and a better grinder will improve things yet again...you also have some space to work on techniques for additional shot improvement. That could be 3 levels of improvement from where you are now and you may not even care to chase down more than that if you are happy with what is in the cup.

There I said it...now the conversation can lead you towards a budget increase and much more machine. 

[Tex]

I definitely agree with the advice John gave you. I have a handful of machines (Nuova Simonelli Personal 1-group, Bunn ES-1A 1-group, Gaggia Baby, Gaggia Espresso, La Pavoni Pro, etc., etc., ad nauseam) that I use for one purpose or another - sometimes daily and sometimes only once a month or so. I tell you this not to impress you with my toys, but to give you an idea of my background with espresso machines. My favorite is the Gaggia Espresso (OK, it's not exactly a stock machine); it's small, makes great espresso, and I like to rub my coffee-snob friends noses in it.

Given a budget of less than $700 one is ALWAYS better off buying a used Gaggia and a grinder that costs what the espresso machine costs. Example: A used Gaggia Classic sells on eBay for ~$300 and a good used commercial grinder (Mazzer SJ, Rossi RR-45, Rancilio MD-50) costs ~$300 (new burrs=$50). This will give you a grinder/espresso machine that will let you learn a lot about making espresso, before you'll feel the need to upgrade.

Check out the link below to the Gaggia User's Forum for more info.

Here's a buying guide from eBay the covers what to look for in a used Gaggia: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2aqdfq

[ButtWhiskers]

Ditto what those guys said.  Get a Gaggia and spend the extra money on a high-end grinder.   If you hunt around, you can probably find a used Mazzer for $200.

[MMW]

Wow!  That was quick.  Thanks for the replies guys.  I really do appreciate them.  The Gaggias are going to get much closer attention.  Checking out your link now, Tex.

Thanks for leaving out the "Snort.  If you're not buying a GS3 you're just buying excuses" and related  answers .

[grinderz]

YEP! What they said...

A good used commercial grade grinder plus a modest pump driven espresso machine will get you much farther toward espresso nirvana than a high end machine mated with a low quality grinder.

[mp]

What they said!

 

[MMW]

Thanks again for all the advice everybody.  Gaggia New Baby and a Rossi RR45 on the way for under what I had budgeted for the machine 

Hopefully my espresso journey begins anew next week!

[Tex]

Thanks again for all the advice everybody.  Gaggia New Baby and a Rossi RR45 on the way for under what I had budgeted for the machine 

Hopefully my espresso journey begins anew next week!

I just hope you understand that the expense is just starting? Let's see... $100 - 200 for a PID. $100 - 1,000 for a roaster, thousands of dollars for green beans,...

Over the next few years you'll often wonder why the hell you got into this hobby - just like most of us have wondered. Enjoy the ride!

[MMW]

I just hope you understand that the expense is just starting? Let's see... $100 - 200 for a PID. $100 - 1,000 for a roaster, thousands of dollars for green beans,...

Over the next few years you'll often wonder why the hell you got into this hobby - just like most of us have wondered. Enjoy the ride!

I still think it's cheaper than golf.  That's what I keep telling my wife anyway 
How much coffee would one have to drink per week to be more expensive than a single round of golf?  I'd spend a lb of geisha just in golf balls...but that's another thread