Dialing A Mazzer Mini In For Grinds Other Than Espresso?

[headchange4u]

I've had my Mazzer Mini for a couple of weeks and to my frustration, I am still trying to get things dialed in. I can't seem to get the same cup from the Mazzer that I was getting from my Capresso grinder. Every adjustment on the the Mazzer seems to effect the flavor in the cup. I have not purchased an espresso machine yet so right now I am mainly using the MM for pour over (probably 80% of the time) but also for press pot, vac pot, and Areopress. Before I boxed up my Capresso and sent it to it's new owner, I performed a grind at my normal setting for pour over. I then used the Capresso grind to do test grinds from the Mazzer until both grinds looked the same to my untrained eye.

BTW, when I refer to a "tick mark", I am talking about one peak in the notches on the adjustment ring. There are 10 tick marks between each of the numbers stamped on the adjustment dial:


I've made micro adjustments to the dial as well as adjusting with larger jumps and I just can't seem to get the grind to produce the cup that my palate is searching for. It's not that the grinds that I am getting are leading to horrible cups of coffee. True, some are better than others, but overall they are pretty darn good. This weekend I was getting ready to brew with my Chemex. Before grinding I adjusted the grinder several tick marks coarser. When I started grinding the Pamama Geisha I was immediately hit with a really intense spice smell from the dry grounds that I had never encountered before. I thought I had hit a sweet spot but the resulting cup was so-so. The brew time in the Chemex was pushing 6 minutes which told me that the grind was still a bit to fine, despite the intense aromatics.

My major hurdle is that no 2 Mazzers are the same when it comes to referring to the numbers on the adjustment ring; a setting of 5 on one MM will not give you the same grind as using another MM set on five. What I am hoping it that I can use the MM's "set point", the sticker that is placed on the MM's adjustment dial from the factory, to use a reference or starting point to get the grinder dialed in. On my grinder the "set point" is located at about 7 on the adjustment dial:





I am hoping that MM owners will be able to give me a general idea of their pour over setting (and/or press pot, vac pot, Aeropress) by counting the number of tick marks from the "set point" sticker. I hope that this will give me a more specific area and I can fine tune from there.

Thanks in advance.

[Tex]

Not exactly what you asked for, but for dialing in a grinder for espresso I recommend this method (copied from the Gaggia User's Group home page);

Technique is mastered by experimenting and repetition. Sit at a table with a half pound of beans, your grinder, the machine and the necessary accessories. Adjust the grinder until you've choked the filter (nothing passes when you pull a shot). Making minute changes, grind progressively coarser until you get 1 ounce in the cup in 25 seconds using the single filter (double filter = 2 ozs in 25 - 30 seconds).

For dosing of the filter I use this technique;
* Using a bottomless yogurt cup, overfill the filter
* Use a skinny probe/pick to stir the grounds
* Remove the cup and level the grounds with the top of the filter
* Tamp - light or heavy (consistency is the key)

For other brewing methods I use time to determine grind; for vac-pot I want a fast evacuation of the top pot, for Melitta cones I want the coffee to drain in three minutes or less, and so on.

One suggestion I'd make; get multiple grinders. It's really wasteful trying to use the same grinder for all your brewing needs. You'll end up throwing a lot of coffee away as you move the settings back & forth.

[headchange4u]

One suggestion I'd make; get multiple grinders. It's really wasteful trying to use the same grinder for all your brewing needs. You'll end up throwing a lot of coffee away as you move the settings back & forth.

The multiple grinder thing is not going to work for me. The main reason is that I just don't have the counter space. It also not like I am going to be re adjusting the grinder every time I make coffee. As I said, it will sit at the pour over setting 85-90% of the time. I usually do a vac pot or press on the weekends if I am making more than one cup. Plus, the MM cost me enough. It should be able to cover all my grinding needs.

[joey]

i went through the exact same headache you're experiencing when i got my mm.  it does have a big learning curve, but it will payoff, i promise!!  you will make leaps and bounds of progress if you eliminate as many variables as possible.  go back to espresso gradeschool.  get out a scale, weigh out 15g of beans for a double, and while tamping, tamp on a scale to exactly 30#.  adjusting your grind is a moot point if there are other variables involved.

[headchange4u]

I didn't receive much response on this thread so I also posted it over at CG, to a larger audience. I thought some may be interested in the results from those few who responded to my thread. I am going to quote one post to give a general summary (BTW TM=Tick Mark, SP=Set Point):

I have found my sweet spot for pour over. My setting is 0.8, or 36 tick marks(TM) from my set point(SP) of 7.2. Also notice that sweaner's SP is 3.7 and he does drip at 6.5-7, 28-33 TM from his SP. MikeReilly continues the trend with a SP of 1.2, brewing drip from 3-4, again in the range of 28-38 TM from SP. Finally joey reports that his SP is .5 and he makes drip coffee at 3, 25 tick marks from SP.

I have also noticed the trend of most people's espresso grinds being a few TM finer than the SP.

I'm still not happy with my vac pot. It's my next brewing method to get dialed in.

I've found my Aeropress does well at about 10 TM from SP for a double shot and about 15 TM from SP for a triple.

I got my french press dialed in. It's about 40-43 TM from SP. Oddly enough this setting also does great for the Chemex. I used my press pot (43 TM) setting today and got a 4:30 brew time with the Chemex and the resulting cup was much better. Before I had been getting a 6:30-7 minute brew time.

I do hope more people report their settings. I am interested to see if the number continue to be as close as they are now.

Interesting trend, IMHO.

Someone else also asked if the adjustments would be the same for a Super Jolly. I would assume they would be the same if the adjustment collars are the same size. I know the SJ has larger burrs, but does anyone know if the adjustment collars are the same size on the MM and the SJ? What about the Major?

I'm still not real happy with my vac pot grind. As soon as I can find my 5 cup Yama vac pot I plan on sitting down and doing some experimenting. The 8 cup wastes too much coffee.

[Tex]

The secret to dialing in a grinder is the same regardless of the extraction method used; DURATION OF CONTACT BETWEEN WATER & COFFEE. For espresso doubles I'm aiming for 2 ozs in 25 seconds. For vac pots I aim for 3 minutes from the time I add the coffee until I shut the heat off. After that I expect the top pot to drain in 30 seconds or so. If either extraction method is too fast I grind finer, if too slow the next time I grind coarser.

The problem is that changing from one grind to another (ex: espresso to French press & back) changes the sweet spot. There's enough play in the threads of any grinder that each time you switch grinds you'll have to dial in the grinder. That's why a lot of coffee fanatics have muliple grinders - it's too wasteful making sink-shots, trying to find that elusive sweet spot.

[headchange4u]

The problem is that changing from one grind to another (ex: espresso to French press & back) changes the sweet spot. There's enough play in the threads of any grinder that each time you switch grinds you'll have to dial in the grinder. That's why a lot of coffee fanatics have muliple grinders - it's too wasteful making sink-shots, trying to find that elusive sweet spot.

I keep hearing the "use multiple grinders" argument, but to be honest, I have had no problems jumping around to my various setting. Of course I'm not grinding for espresso. I have the feeling that the coarser grinds for press, pour over, etc are not as susceptible to subtle changes in the grind setting as grinding for espresso.

[Joe]

 on my Mazzer Super Jolly, I have found that most of the coffees I grind for espresso are 2-4 ticks(as you describe) prior to the number 6 on my dial, for Pour over et. al. I move my grinder all the way 2-4 ticks past the 7 depending on whether I am grinding for a paper filter or swiss gold. Hope that gets you a good base. For reference Chris gave me some good advice in finding my drip grind level, I adjusted it until the grounds were of the same size as rough sand.

Joe

[nimbus]

Not enough counterspace? Build a shelf or a cabinet.

Really.

I know, it does seem kind of wasteful and perhaps snobbish to have two grinders, especially if one grinder can do both functions fine. So I guess I retract that comment.

I honestly never even thought about using my Mazzers (super jollies) for anything but espresso. On a commercial level, of course, we couldn't do that. I'm currently using a big ole' Grindmaster for our drip coffee and french press and whatever custies want us to grind for them. One SJ for espresso. One SJ for decaf.

I got called in today (I only live two blocks from the shop), by an fairly newbie Barista who couldn't get the SJ dialed in right for the Espresso. I'm glad she's paying attention to the timing at least. A lot of people don't. We played with it for three or four shots and got it right on. It also gave me the opportunity to go over tamping technique.

Yeah, if you can afford two, it makes your life easier and simpler. Plus you can impress your friends. Heehee...

nimbus