Smoke Elimination Device

[shep]

I have been a member of this group for many years but have not been active for a long time. Over the past 20 years of roasting I have gone full circle from home roaster to commercial wholesaler to retired and back to roasting at home. I purchased a home in a community where roasting on the 1 kilo gas roaster I kept to play on was not going to be an acceptable practice so I sold it. I have been thinking about picking up a Bullet to avoid the gas/flame issue but I am still concerned about the amount of smoke I will expose my very close neighbors to. I realize this is not an issue for many of you, but I'm sure it is for some.

That led me to take notice of a project a local micro factory has recently developed. The group has built a ventless, indoor meat smoker that eliminates the smoke by turning it into water vapor and CO2 (safe levels). I was able to get a meeting with them this past week to discuss the possibility of using their smoke elimination technology on a small coffee roaster, such as the Bullet. The idea was received very well and they are interested in exploring the possibility. What they have asked of me is to see if I can gauge interest in such a device. That is the reason for this post.

Just a few things to be clear on:
1. I mentioned this to the Admin of this site before making this post.
2. I do not work for this company and am not selling anything. I met with them out of my own personal interest in finding a solution to a smoke concern.
3. That said, the company that I just retired from after 43 years owns this micro-factory, so I do have an association with them.,
4. I don't know anything about how the technology works yet. We only met to discuss whether or not is was something they could adapt their technology to and if they are interested in pursuing it.
5. I have no idea yet what it might cost.
6. The device would be an add on to a roaster, although they did discuss the idea of should they build a roaster of their own.

I would love to hear from this community as to whether or not you would have an interest in such a device, so please respond here as to your initial thoughts. Thanks!

Here is a link to a YouTube video from the company discussing the smoker. They have  several videos: https://youtu.be/IQx_jZS0bcI

Shep

[peter]

Hello Shep,

It's nice to see an old, familiar face posting again.

I don't have the need for such a device, currently, but have thought about moving and how the facility that would suit me best at my age probably wouldn't be amenable to coffee roasting so I will be following if this goes anywhere.

[shep]

Exactly the case for us. We lived on a farm where we could do pretty much anything we wanted, but as I approached retirement age, we wanted something simple to care for that we could leave and travel easily. We ended up buying a patio home in a subdivision, similar to a townhouse or condo in which we are in close proximity to our neighbors. We have an HOA to navigate as well. I want to continue enjoying the roasting process, using an engaging machine, without creating a negative situation with my neighbors or the HOA.

[peter]

Gotcha.

An old member here, 7over, has a commercial roastery (uses a Loring now) with a self-designed fluid-bed roaster.  He ran the exhaust through a large vat of water that would soak up the smoke before it exited the building.  I thought it was a pretty cool and effective design, and wonder why that isn't used more often.

[shep]

I've posed this question in a few places. This may not be the right audience for the question but I thought I'd try to get as much input as possible to share with the engineers at the factory.

[Ascholten]

another issue is, most roasters may not have just one tiny place for smoke to come out of.  would you put it over the cap of a so and so,  over the after burner of the behmor, how would it mount, would it need it's own air flow etc.  We'd need more details on how it would work to know if it'd work with what we use.

We are a very diverse community and use pretty much every kind of coffee roaster known to mankind, including many home made ones !

A smokeless option might be nice for someone who lives in an apartment, where taking the roaster outside is a bit of a pain in the ass, but someone who already roasts in a garage or dedicated room, not so much needed.

aaron

[shep]

There are definitely more questions than answers right now. I meet with the engineers again Thursday so I might have a better understanding after that. For them as a business it always comes down to, "Is there a need for this?" That's what I'm trying to help ascertain.

[Ascholten]

another thing to consider.
Smoke is basically unburned fuel.... is one way to look at it.
So if the smokeless thing is say, an afterburner,  it's basically finishing up the burn process.
What does it give us in return?   CO2,  CO ?  and the other lovlies of the combustion cycle of coffee

If I DID decide to roast in my apartment, instead of taking it outside so I don't totally smoke out the place,  is this a gas hazard now?  Kind of like BBQ indoors thingie?

Aaron

[shep]

Sorry, didn't mean to abandon my post. Made another visit to the shop to walk through the roasting process with them. They assigned a project manager to first look into the smoke elimination idea as an add on to a roaster then look into the idea of building their own roasters. No idea if either of these will go anywhere yet.

I don't have enough information to answer your questions with authority but it is my understanding that in the indoor smoker, the smoke is turned into water vapor and CO2, obviously this has to be safe levels to be useful. To be clear, that device and the pizza oven have no venting whatsoever. Their device does not fit in a vent pipe, there is no vent pipe. However, depending on the size of a coffee roaster, they may produce a lot more smoke to be dealt with than the meat smoker. If/when I learn something more helpful I will be sure to share.

[ptrmorton]

Interesting topic to be sure!

[Ascholten]

By meat smoker, if you are talking one of those little things that have a heating element that you toss a few wood chips on to smoke meats in.
First off, that's about as 'authentic' as starbucks is, for smoked meats    

A pizza oven should not make a heck of a lot of smoke unless you are burning the crust.  A coffee roaster now, smoke is part of the deal, Id think you will see a lot more smoke with coffee, plus you need the air flow to remove the moisture AND the smoke so it does not linger and keep off flavors on the roast.  With this, the smoke device will need to be able to handle that airflow the coffee roaster provides.  A pizza oven is mostly convection, a coffee roaster, uses a hell of a lot more airmass.  If it's using a catalyst to reduce the smoke to water and CO2, can it work fast enough with say 200 scfm or whatever it is a roaster puts out?  Also, this chemical process is going to take energy.  How much energy?  Am I putting an 8000 BTU afterburner on my roaster now?

Curious to hear what you come up with.

Aaron

[shep]

Here is a YouTube video of it with some info. https://youtu.be/v4ImS_Q2qcc

[Ascholten]

Very interesting video shep.  Yes that looks like it'd be great for what they are doing but for a coffee roaster I do not think it'd work.   They have hours to recirc the air and slowly putter it out after the smoke has been processed.  A coffee roaster has what 20 minutes tops? and a fairly large amount of airflow and im betting a lot more shall I say  smoke unit per minute once it gets going.  I bet with a little design though, they could get that thing to come up to 450 and put a drum in there and kind of hold the smoke inside and whiff it out after being processed.  It's doable they could make a roaster.  Tell them to reach out here if they want any other insane ideas

Aaron

[shep]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what they can do. So far, they think it is can be managed...but they have not tried it, and as you point out, the smoke output for a coffee roaster comes at a much faster rate. Time will tell. I just bought an Aillio Bullet and am taking it in next week. They are going to use it to try out a prototype on.

[peter]

Thanks for the input.  It'll be interesting to see how they fare w/ the Bullet.