Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Tex on January 21, 2011, 10:43:29 AM
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage. Get both under control and you're on your way to coffee nirvana. Let just one get away from you and you're in for a sad experience. Refer to the article by Dr. Ernesto Illy for details: http://tinyurl.com/complexity-of-coffee (http://tinyurl.com/complexity-of-coffee)
Variable #1 Group Pressure: Conventional wisdom holds that group pressure should be adjusted to 9 bar. What CW doesn't address is whether this is dynamic (as the fluids are flowing through the puck) or static (with the fluids stalled at the puck - no flow) pressure. FYI: 9 bar dynamic pressure = 10 bar static pressure, and 9 bar = 131 psi.
Arbitrarily I've chosen it to mean 9 bar dynamic group pressure. To manage the pressure requires an adjustable OPV; present in all Classics, some Baby's, and other models. Those Gaggia models without an adjustable OPV can be modded by replacing the OEM water inlet with a Classic adjustable OPV (~$50). Then, with the aid of a portafilter mounted pressure gauge, the group pressure can be properly tuned.
Variable #2 Brew Temperature: Conventional wisdom holds that group temperature should be 196F to 203F. The Gaggia OEM brew tstat has a dead band of ~40F; meaning that at any given time the actual temp can be as much as 20F below or 20F above the optimum brew temps. To correct the problem requires one to temp surf (play with the steam tstat to manipulate the temperature) or mod the machine by adding a PID kit to replace
the brew tstat.
Personally, I've never been able to temp surf worth a damn. That's why I've championed the PID mod for Gaggia's. They're simple to install, kits range in price from $159 - $250, and make it dirt simple to hit a chosen brew temp. This is important, because in addition to the temps CW holds to be best, I've found
that each blend and single origin has its own temp sweet spot. A 1F difference in brew temp can make a huge difference in taste.
So, have you mastered the two machine variables yet?
Tex
-
YES
-
Yes, same day it came out of the box.
-
BTW, I forgot to mention that you shouldn't rely on the gauges mounted on your machine to adjust the group or boiler pressure. I've worked on hundreds of machines and I've yet to find more than a handful with accurate gauges. If you take into consideration the bumps and shocks these get in shipment that's not too big a surprise.
If your retailer was worth a damn the machine should've been properly tuned before it got to you. But you'd be surprised how often this gets "overlooked"; mostly because the machines never come out of their factory crates before they get shipped. And often the machine was never in your retailer's possession, rather it was drop-shipped from the distributor. That's why it's always a good idea to tune your machine when you get it.
-
So you might change the thread title to "Have You Tuned Your Machine Yet?" because you're saying the variables can't be mastered until you've checked the pressure yourself.
-
So you might change the thread title to "Have You Tuned Your Machine Yet?" because you're saying the variables can't be mastered until you've checked the pressure yourself.
Kinda sorta Peter - the pressure & temp need to be verified occasionally, so they really are variables. And the tuning is really the mastery of the machine.
And as others will tell you, that's just part of the equation of making quality espresso. But everything else is operator variables and I'll leave that for the experts to discuss. :angel:
-
I may just snoop around S1Cafe forum, and see if there's a PF gauge floating around.
Apart from actually measuring it, there could be something said for adjusting pressure (and group temp for that matter) by taste. Both are easy enough to do, for me at least. Like you say conventional wisdom is 9bar, but even if we use a PF gauge that's spot-on, 9bar may not produce the best shots.
Taste should be the tutor in the mastering of the variables.
-
My VBM DB Super came with pressure at 11.4 bar indicated and PIDed coffee boiler. As they said indicated pressure is ~1 bar over grouphead pressure, I adjusted the OPV to 10 bar static. After six months, I decided to readjust back to 11 bar indicated static, and have been much happier. I can usually use grind and tamp to hit just about 10.6 bar indicated, and the taste is better.
As for temp, well, with a PID, I have to adjust every few days, depending on the bean. Nothing is permanent!
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage.
Are you going to make this a quarterly thing?
You know it always goes off the rails.
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage.
Are you going to make this a quarterly thing?
You know it always goes off the rails.
If only we could get Chris to write some code so you wouldn't see these, you of low resistance. ;D
Maybe we should derail the thread and discuss the merits of 'let taste be the tutor of mastering the variables.'
YasBean has a good post; he adjusts his machine based on taste and only keeps the setting if the taste improves.
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage.
Are you going to make this a quarterly thing?
You know it always goes off the rails.
Only when folks with their own agendas misquote me or take something out of context. When the post is read in its entirety (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11118.msg170800#msg170800) there's nothing to argue about.
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage.
Are you going to make this a quarterly thing?
You know it always goes off the rails.
If only we could get Chris to write some code so you wouldn't see these, you of low resistance. ;D
Maybe we should derail the thread and discuss the merits of 'let taste be the tutor of mastering the variables.'
YasBean has a good post; he adjusts his machine based on taste and only keeps the setting if the taste improves.
Actually Peter, what I read was that he chose a higher group pressure (~11 bar static/10 bar dynamic) than CW advises and leaves it set at that, adjusting his grind and tamp to achieve ~10.6 bar.
What he does vary is the brew temp, the same thing I advise at the end of my post.
So YasBean has mastered the group pressure and temp variables, at least to his satisfaction.
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage.
Are you going to make this a quarterly thing?
You know it always goes off the rails.
Only when folks with their own agendas misquote me or take something out of context. When the post is read in its entirety ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11118.msg170800#msg170800[/url]) there's nothing to argue about.
Choooo chooooooooooo...
-
Maybe we should derail the thread and discuss the merits of 'let taste be the tutor of mastering the variables.'
YasBean has a good post; he adjusts his machine based on taste and only keeps the setting if the taste improves.
Actually Peter, what I read was that he chose a higher group pressure (~11 bar static/10 bar dynamic) than CW advises and leaves it set at that, adjusting his grind and tamp to achieve ~10.6 bar.
What he does vary is the brew temp, the same thing I advise at the end of my post.
So YasBean has mastered the group pressure and temp variables, at least to his satisfaction....
...as has anyone else who can consistently pull drinkable shots. Taste is the tutor.
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage.
Are you going to make this a quarterly thing?
You know it always goes off the rails.
Only when folks with their own agendas misquote me or take something out of context. When the post is read in its entirety ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11118.msg170800#msg170800[/url]) there's nothing to argue about.
Choooo chooooooooooo...
I don't mind a thread spinning into a pissing contest as long as I learn something from them. You've made me aware that my concentration on mastery of the machine is only part of the equation for making quality espresso. Technique is equally important, otherwise every Tom, Dick, & Harry could buy the latest Whiz Bang X3300 and begin whipping out great shots. That just doesn't happen!
And I accept that some baristas could take a Krups steam toy and turn out very drinkable shots coffee. But for the vast majority of home baristas, it's my contention that a properly tuned espresso machine is the best starting point for learning how to make quality espresso. In that context I point out to these folks what constitutes a properly tuned espresso machine, in my very experienced opinion.
Once the home barista has a well-tuned machine, the next order of business is to find someone who can teach the basics of making quality espresso. As a former educator who believes most people learn in incremental steps, I like to start the budding home barista off with a method that I know from experience will let them make very drinkable shots after a few attempts. Once the basics are learned, the now advanced home barista can move on the the finer aspects of pulling shots, armed with a comforting knowledge that the basics have been mastered.
For my money, that's about it - make sure the machine is capable of producing quality shots, that the barista has mastered the basics and knows how to build a good shot of espresso, and then pass them off to someone else with knowledge of how to produce great shots under varying conditions.
-
Wow, that's gotta be the most balanced and well written reply I've ever seen from you Tex. And I'm not trying to be an ass. Gotta say I agree with your overall presentation.
Though I'm not sure anyone can take a Krups steam toy and produce drinkable shots, certainly not to the full extent of the beans potential. But I guess it all comes down to the Krups-owners understanding of what espresso should taste like and if they've ever explored the full spectrum of espresso possibilities. If they've never tasted good shots they might believe that the shots they pull at home are good - and ultimately that's all that matters... I guess.
-
Wow, that's gotta be the most balanced and well written reply I've ever seen from you Tex. And I'm not trying to be an ass. Gotta say I agree with your overall presentation.
Though I'm not sure anyone can take a Krups steam toy and produce drinkable shots, certainly not to the full extent of the beans potential. But I guess it all comes down to the Krups-owners understanding of what espresso should taste like and if they've ever explored the full spectrum of espresso possibilities. If they've never tasted good shots they might believe that the shots they pull at home are good - and ultimately that's all that matters... I guess.
We seem to diverge on our definition of a good shot? To me a good shot is the minimum starting point, a drinkable but not necessarily a great shot. In other words, some of the nuances that the bean is capable of may be missing, but the shot is good enough to drink.
A quality espresso shot on the other hand is full of flavor and has extracted the best the bean has to offer.
Good shot vs quality shot? I'd drink either, but would aim for the latter.
-
Wow, that's gotta be the most balanced and well written reply I've ever seen from you Tex. And I'm not trying to be an ass. Gotta say I agree with your overall presentation.
Though I'm not sure anyone can take a Krups steam toy and produce drinkable shots, certainly not to the full extent of the beans potential. But I guess it all comes down to the Krups-owners understanding of what espresso should taste like and if they've ever explored the full spectrum of espresso possibilities. If they've never tasted good shots they might believe that the shots they pull at home are good - and ultimately that's all that matters... I guess.
Yeah, I corrected that to read coffee instead of espresso shots. Taste & experience are the key elements to making ever better shots; especially given that most noobs experience espresso at their local coffee shop or Starbuck's - hardly places where one would expect to learn anything about what quality espresso tastes like.
For most folks it becomes a matter of experience and most shots will be in the so-so to good category, but once in a while a quality shot will accidentally happen and their taste buds will get a wake up call. That random shot of coffee nirvana often spurs the home barista to experiment with pressure, temp, dosing, and distribution in search of that elusive quality shot of espresso.
That's when people like you should step in to help them understand the finer points of espresso. And that's great, because while I can get them to the first level of quality espresso, I just don't have the time or inclination to devote myself to getting them to the next level.
-
You must have me confused with someone else. I don't really consider myself an espresso 'next level' kinda guy, you could probably teach someone just as much as I could... if you wanted to. I don't think there's a magical formula to pulling good shots, things that helped me improve my ability to me sort out the espresso wheat from the chaff are:
1) Tasting espresso in a boatload of retail locations where they imprinted their styles, techniques and interpretation of what espresso 'should be' into the cup.
2) Remaining aware of what the forward thinkers are pondering in regards to espresso advancement.
3) Keeping an open mind in regards to my own technique and results.
4) Being a mad scientist with a lot of SO shots and then playing even more with blending.
5) Having the chance to work with some talented characters.
6) Other things I'm too lazy to think about and type out.
I believe the key to helping advance someone's espresso abilities is through careful explanation/guidance down the path without being overly specific and stating absolutes. Everyone develops their own path, I'm not trying to force them down mine and that's why I prefer generalities for a lot of espresso discussion. Generalities allow for personal exploration, some of my 'coolest espresso theories' have produced some of my worst shots but every once in a while I get a step change in improvement. My espresso isn't earth shattering great, it's still got improvement potential, but every year it tends to get better - or at least better understood. I suspect you've observed the same with your own espresso.
-
6) Other things I'm too lazy to think about and type out.
Time for a few more shots then. :angel:
-
6) Other things I'm too lazy to think about and type out.
Time for a few more shots then. :angel:
Haha, yeah probably. I pulled two shots of the Koke this morning, each one from a different batch roasted three days ago with different roast profiles. Neither one was ready yet (but almost). For the third shot I did a 50/50 blend with the Koke and a more mature Amaro Gayo and the shot was fantastic, so good that I've been thinking about it for the last few hours. Maybe your post is enough to push me over the edge and grab another one. ;-)
-
Killer in a 50/50 split in small milk.
-
Straight out of the box... Hahaha!
You crack me up sometimes Peter.
;D
-
Straight out of the box... Hahaha!
You crack me up sometimes Peter.
;D
I wouldn't sh*t you JohnF; that's why I bought a VII, so that those two variables would be taken out of my iffy equation. 8)
OK, Tex; that was your cue to jump back in here and do some fanning of the flames. ;D
Self-portrait = (http://fireplaceideas.com/images/accessories/traditional_turned_bellows.jpg)
-
Straight out of the box... Hahaha!
You crack me up sometimes Peter.
;D
I wouldn't sh*t you JohnF; that's why I bought a VII, so that those two variables would be taken out of my iffy equation. 8)
OK, Tex; that was your cue to jump back in here and do some fanning of the flames. ;D
Self-portrait = ([url]http://fireplaceideas.com/images/accessories/traditional_turned_bellows.jpg[/url])
Nah, with all the cow patties you're tossing around the fire is hot enough.
-
I know..
The phrasing of the topic and reply just make me laugh is all.
Yes..purchasing a temp stable machine is a big help in full mastery of temp stability..
-
Truly classic.
-
I am laughing....
-
I've been laughing since Peter first posted it up. It's just getting funnier by the minute.
-
:angel: >:D
(http://www.workoutmuse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/warner-image-mptvnet-grumpy-old-men-1993.png)
-
Temp stable fish.
-
I'm going to let you guys chase down temp stable fish while I work on something else....
I'm developing a one day seminar that will be available on DVD or instant download.
Total domination of weighing.
This master class will have you weighing out grams of coffee so artfully that even Pharmacists will be impressed.
You will learn.
.Expert tare usage....
.Virtuoso portafilter placement for amazing accuracy...
.Perfect on/off operation every single time.
Be the master of battery replacement, gram/oz toggling, counter space placement for optimized speed, and MORE!!!!
This is the class you have been waiting for to bring your scale work to a world class level.
You know you want it..... get some!
-
...
.Virtuoso portafilter placement for amazing accuracy...
.Perfect on/off operation every single time.
...
Oh sure, has to be a Virtuoso in your satire...<grins>.
B|Java
-
Will it also cover things like:
- What to do after you've tared out your basket then weight your coffee, get distracted by something and then realize the scales auto-shutoff took effect.
- What to do if you are just about to weigh your freshly ground coffee in your basket and the scale batteries die.
- Lastly, sometimes I find myself weighing coffee in an elevator that goes down at different rates of descent, will the DVD cover an easy to remember formula for this kind of situation.
If the DVD covers these kinds of things I'd be interested to order one. Oh, one final question, will the weighing tips be covered in American or Canadian. ;-)
-
Yes and more.......
MORE!!!!
When it's all said and done you will have mastered weighing coffee.
For full disclosure our weigh experts can not actually teach you every contingent. For example some elevators travel much further uninterrupted vertical distances than others and it makes the math too complicated to teach most normal people.
So what we do is give you tools to prevent those issues from happening. We have developed 11 proprietary weigh strategies we call..
The Apex 11.
Using The Apex 11 virtually eliminates you grasping for answers when things get ugly at the scales edge.
Our goal is to give you all the tools you need to use the tools you need to weigh at the elite level.
-
Yes and more.......
MORE!!!!
When it's all said and done you will have mastered weighing coffee.
For full disclosure our weigh experts can not actually teach you every contingent. For example some elevators travel much further uninterrupted vertical distances than others and it makes the math too complicated to teach most normal people.
So what we do is give you tools to prevent those issues from happening. We have developed 11 proprietary weigh strategies we call..
The Apex 11.
Using The Apex 11 virtually eliminates you grasping for answers when things get ugly at the scales edge.
Our goal is to give you all the tools you need to use the tools you need to weigh at the elite level.
:o
-
:o
You can cay that again....
-
Apex 11! Elite level!! I'm in!!!
Where do I send my money?
-
Apex 11! Elite level!! I'm in!!!
Where do I send my money?
As soon as editing and post production is done I'll post up the details.
Until then.....
-
:o
You can cay that again....
:o
-
Apex 11! Elite level!! I'm in!!!
Where do I send my money?
As soon as editing and post production is done I'll post up the details.
Until then.....
Until then I'll have to use my shoddy weighing skills, knowing I'm missing out on the Apex 11.
-
Apex 11! Elite level!! I'm in!!!
Where do I send my money?
As soon as editing and post production is done I'll post up the details.
Until then.....
Until then I'll have to use my shoddy weighing skills, knowing I'm missing out on the Apex 11.
Or you could just pull the shot the best way you know how and put it in your belly.
:)
-
Based solely on taste? Isn't that just a bit 'out there'??
;-)
-
Based solely on taste? Isn't that just a bit 'out there'??
;-)
Yeah ... but an advanced group of coffee connoisseurs such as this group will easily grasp and run with any new scientific procedure proved to kick the taste up another notch.
:-X
-
Based solely on taste? Isn't that just a bit 'out there'??
;-)
Funny... I didn't see you post in the what beer are you drinking thread... ;D
-
YasBean has a good post; he adjusts his machine based on taste and only keeps the setting if the taste improves.
Actually Peter, what I read was that he chose a higher group pressure (~11 bar static/10 bar dynamic) than CW advises and leaves it set at that, adjusting his grind and tamp to achieve ~10.6 bar.
What he does vary is the brew temp, the same thing I advise at the end of my post.
So YasBean has mastered the group pressure and temp variables, at least to his satisfaction.
Well, l would not say that I have mastered anything. I am almost constantly fiddling with grind time and temp. (l have gone back to timing grinds on my Vario.) I first got to thinking, is relying on the OPV to control pressure cheating? l have gotten pretty good at hitting the pressure without the OPV. :P
-
YasBean has a good post; he adjusts his machine based on taste and only keeps the setting if the taste improves.
Actually Peter, what I read was that he chose a higher group pressure (~11 bar static/10 bar dynamic) than CW advises and leaves it set at that, adjusting his grind and tamp to achieve ~10.6 bar.
What he does vary is the brew temp, the same thing I advise at the end of my post.
So YasBean has mastered the group pressure and temp variables, at least to his satisfaction.
Well, l would not say that I have mastered anything. I am almost constantly fiddling with grind time and temp. (l have gone back to timing grinds on my Vario.) I first got to thinking, is relying on the OPV to control pressure cheating? l have gotten pretty good at hitting the pressure without the OPV. :P
Is the man from MI trying to hijack the thread here? ;D
Funny... I didn't see you post in the what beer are you drinking thread... ;D
I might just have to use that line. May I?
-
I might just have to use that line. May I?
If you find a spot for it...
-
YasBean has a good post; he adjusts his machine based on taste and only keeps the setting if the taste improves.
Actually Peter, what I read was that he chose a higher group pressure (~11 bar static/10 bar dynamic) than CW advises and leaves it set at that, adjusting his grind and tamp to achieve ~10.6 bar.
What he does vary is the brew temp, the same thing I advise at the end of my post.
So YasBean has mastered the group pressure and temp variables, at least to his satisfaction.
Well, l would not say that I have mastered anything. I am almost constantly fiddling with grind time and temp. (l have gone back to timing grinds on my Vario.) I first got to thinking, is relying on the OPV to control pressure cheating? l have gotten pretty good at hitting the pressure without the OPV. :P
The way it was explained to me is that first you tune the machine to 9 bar, and then you adjust the grind to the tuned machine.
-
That is how I had always learned it, but then my VBM came tuned to 11.4 indicated. Now, indicated is not actual, but I wrote to ask why it was so high (they say indicated is usually apx. 1 bar over actual), and the answer was, "That is how we like it here in Italy," or something to that effect. Well, I tried tuning it to 9 bar act., but did not like the results. I like the results I get now. I have now accepted: Numbers are for general reference; taste is the ultimate standard.
-
And since you might be covering cell phones and scales, could you also cover how to do free cell phone calls using a variety of software and hardware solutions, I think Jeffo might buy the DVD if you make that happen.
-
And since you might be covering cell phones and scales, could you also cover how to do free cell phone calls using a variety of software and hardware solutions, I think Jeffo might buy the DVD if you make that happen.
That would be interesting.
;D
-
I'm going to let you guys chase down temp stable fish while I work on something else....
I'm developing a one day seminar that will be available on DVD or instant download.
Total domination of weighing.
This master class will have you weighing out grams of coffee so artfully that even Pharmacists will be impressed.
You will learn.
.Expert tare usage....
.Virtuoso portafilter placement for amazing accuracy...
.Perfect on/off operation every single time.
Be the master of battery replacement, gram/oz toggling, counter space placement for optimized speed, and MORE!!!!
This is the class you have been waiting for to bring your scale work to a world class level.
You know you want it..... get some!
I am very interested in this program. Please fax me the details. My current method for weighing consists of sending a handful of beans in an envelope to myself. I place a 44 cent stamp on the envelope. If it arrives postage due I remove a bean and send it again. I now have in my freezer seven envelopes containing a USPS certified ounce of beans. My current project finds me in the process of dialing in an eighth envelope.
Try it - it works!
-
Totally funny!
-
Thread title change is pretty funny, a suspicious person might think you guys were set up.
-
Who was the wise guy who set poor Tex up? You should be ashamed.
-
Deep thoughts....
Are we sure there was a hijack?
-
I'm surprised Jeffo hasn't jumped on the boyz typo. ;-)
-
Deep thoughts....
Are we sure there was a hijack?
Was it a hijack or par for the GCBC course?
???
-
Someone needs (http://www.fisheadcartoons.com/Fishing_Cartoons/thumbs/thmb_skin%20thickener.jpg)
-
Peter is 74% responsible for what has happened here..
Just saying...
-
I also heard Peter is responsible for the other 26%.
-
That would make Peter one of the boyz! There is a positive side to this
-
Word is that Peter loves to get down and dirty.
:o
-
As much as I'd like to take 100% of the credit, alas, I cannot.
The hardness of the Southerner's head is more than even my rapier-like wit can penetrate. ;)
But I still say if that's the best shot he can pull he ought to stick to instant. >:D
C'mon Robert, tell us what's really going on.
Maybe he had another run-in with Mrs. T's rolling pin, and he's not thinking straight. We should give him the benefit of the doubt.
-
As much as we like to think Robert has tough skin and is impenetrable maybe one or more comments penetrated through.
He is human ... after all.
:-\
-
What, do I have to put a winky in my posts to show a sense of appreciation for your humor? I thought it was one of the funniest bits of burlesque ever, almost as good as "Who's on first."! ;D
Thanks for going to the effort!
-
What, do I have to put a winky in my posts to show a sense of appreciation for your humor? I thought it was one of the funniest bits of burlesque ever, almost as good as "Who's on first."! ;D
Thanks for going to the effort!
Being a written media and no voice and facial expressions sometimes make it hard to express the intent of the person making the statement. Smileys, undecided, and question emoticons help in that they will portray to some degree the intent of the poster.
Glad to hear that you enjoyed Peter's humor.
Does that mean your feelings were not hurt? Was the lack of posting due to your thread going into a direction you did not care for?
???
-
Tex just loves the attention, I think. Any kind of attention as a matter of fact. Even if it means he winds up at the bottom of one of these. ;D
(http://okiedoke.com/pix/pigpile.jpg)
-
What, do I have to put a winky in my posts to show a sense of appreciation for your humor? I thought it was one of the funniest bits of burlesque ever, almost as good as "Who's on first."! ;D
Thanks for going to the effort!
Being a written media and no voice and facial expressions sometimes make it hard to express the intent of the person making the statement. Smileys, undecided, and question emoticons help in that they will portray to some degree the intent of the poster.
Glad to hear that you enjoyed Peter's humor.
Does that mean your feelings were not hurt? Was the lack of posting due to your thread going into a direction you did not care for?
???
Nah, it was something an uncle told me long ago, "Don't give 'em the satisfaction of an answer until you're ready to lower the boom on 'em." ;D My feelings get hurt over some good-natured ribbing? ::)
-
I like a guy that can take it, just as well as dish it out. :duckie:
-
I like a guy that can take it, just as well as dish it out. :duckie:
+1
:)
-
I like a guy that can take it, just as well as dish it out. :duckie:
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
-
..taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
That was master level stuff going on...
You better have really good notes. ;D
-
..taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
That was master level stuff going on...
You better have really good notes. ;D
Point taken; names as well. :angel:
-
Make sure you spell it right.
P e t e r.
;-)
-
Can we pulleeez leave me out of this and get back to that scale DVD. Stop hijacking this thread and stick to how to weigh cell phones while pulling shots.
-
Stay tuned as we return to our regularly scheduled programming.
(http://www.clipartguide.com/_named_clipart_images/0511-0901-1901-2131_Vintage_Radio_Announcer_clipart_image.jpg)
Coffee Talk
Our topic of the day: Guatemala wet processed... neither wet nor processed.
-
I would like to get back on topic too - sorry to the OP, but with all the helpful tips we have to share it is easy to get sidetracked. I have taken to printing these posts to put in my scrapbook because they are so helpful and colorful. The scrapbook project would go faster if I could find more goat pictures though, since that is the theme.
Back on topic: How many shots can you pull before changing out the coffee in the portafilter?
-
I would like to get back on topic too - sorry to the OP, but with all the helpful tips we have to share it is easy to get sidetracked. I have taken to printing these posts to put in my scrapbook because they are so helpful and colorful. The scrapbook project would go faster if I could find more goat pictures though, since that is the theme.
Back on topic: How many shots can you pull before changing out the coffee in the portafilter?
Depends on whether one's doing frou-frou or real coffee, doesn't it? If the milk is the featured ingredient I don't see why one would need to change the coffee too often.
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
Out of the box is fine; in fact I knew lots of guys who used to borrow mama's Chevy Impala and go cruising for chicks. Me, I'd roll out my built-from-scratch Chevy II Yenko-clone and go racing for pink slips, then go take the boy's chicks away from them. >:D
It's all good! ;D
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
Out of the box is fine; in fact I knew lots of guys who used to borrow mama's Chevy Impala and go cruising for chicks. Me, I'd roll out my built-from-scratch Chevy II Grumpy-clone and go racing for pink slips, then go take the boy's chicks away from them. >:D
It's all good! ;D
Amazing how the senile mind works, isn't it? You can't remember what was for dinner last night, but you can remember stuff from 50 years ago, and embellish it to boot.
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
Out of the box is fine; in fact I knew lots of guys who used to borrow mama's Chevy Impala and go cruising for chicks. Me, I'd roll out my built-from-scratch Chevy II Grumpy-clone and go racing for pink slips, then go take the boy's chicks away from them. >:D
It's all good! ;D
Amazing how the senile mind works, isn't it? You can't remember what was for dinner last night, but you can remember stuff from 50 years ago, and embellish it to boot.
Embellish? Texicans don't embellish, ever!
-
Oh no, not the "I built my own hot rods and therefore out of the box solutions are lame" thing again.
-
Oh no, not the "I built my own hot rods and therefore out of the box solutions are lame" thing again.
Not lame, just not my cup of tea. I want the fun of the journey, not just getting to the destination.
Like I said, it's all good as long as you get what you want. 8)
edited: Honestly, I raced for pinks just once. I won, but I was scared shitless I was going to lose & have to ride RTD for a month or so 'til I could scare up enough cash for a beater. Racing for cases of beer was a lot smarter! ;D
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
Out of the box is fine; in fact I knew lots of guys who used to borrow mama's Chevy Impala and go cruising for chicks. Me, I'd roll out my built-from-scratch Chevy II Grumpy-clone and go racing for pink slips, then go take the boy's chicks away from them. >:D
It's all good! ;D
Amazing how the senile mind works, isn't it? You can't remember what was for dinner last night, but you can remember stuff from 50 years ago, and embellish it to boot.
Embellish? Texicans don't embellish, ever!
That's why I thought including the word "Bull" in the title of this thread was a good idea.
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
Out of the box is fine; in fact I knew lots of guys who used to borrow mama's Chevy Impala and go cruising for chicks. Me, I'd roll out my built-from-scratch Chevy II Grumpy-clone and go racing for pink slips, then go take the boy's chicks away from them. >:D
It's all good! ;D
Amazing how the senile mind works, isn't it? You can't remember what was for dinner last night, but you can remember stuff from 50 years ago, and embellish it to boot.
Embellish? Texicans don't embellish, ever!
That's why I thought including the word "Bull" in the title of this thread was a good idea.
I added it like you said, but it looks redundant? ;)
-
I would like to get back on topic too - sorry to the OP, but with all the helpful tips we have to share it is easy to get sidetracked. I have taken to printing these posts to put in my scrapbook because they are so helpful and colorful. The scrapbook project would go faster if I could find more goat pictures though, since that is the theme.
Back on topic: How many shots can you pull before changing out the coffee in the portafilter?
Depends on whether one's doing frou-frou or real coffee, doesn't it? If the milk is the featured ingredient I don't see why one would need to change the coffee too often.
Oh, it's real coffee - the French vanilla flavor is starting to fade though so I thought I would add some more next time I clean it. I made sure I set the dial to espresso on the grinder at Safeway so I know I am on track too once I get that scale thing down pat.
-
The first post or two had me going, then I figured out what was going down. I decided to let it run its course, taking notes the whole while - figuring what's good for the goosed will be even better for the gooser! >:D
I answered your question in a succinct and honest manner. You wanted more? We have seen this same lecture numerous times before so given the title I thought you were starting another version of the famous Jerry Seinfeld episode "Master of your domain" about who among their small group of friends could refrain from masturbation the longest. I lost with the fewest words! >:D
Of course, in that vein, I need to reply as I first replied; right out of the box. ;)
Out of the box is fine; in fact I knew lots of guys who used to borrow mama's Chevy Impala and go cruising for chicks. Me, I'd roll out my built-from-scratch Chevy II Grumpy-clone and go racing for pink slips, then go take the boy's chicks away from them. >:D
It's all good! ;D
Amazing how the senile mind works, isn't it? You can't remember what was for dinner last night, but you can remember stuff from 50 years ago, and embellish it to boot.
Embellish? Texicans don't embellish, ever!
That's why I thought including the word "Bull" in the title of this thread was a good idea.
I added it like you said, but it looks redundant? ;)
let me fix it
-
I would like to get back on topic too - sorry to the OP, but with all the helpful tips we have to share it is easy to get sidetracked. I have taken to printing these posts to put in my scrapbook because they are so helpful and colorful. The scrapbook project would go faster if I could find more goat pictures though, since that is the theme.
Back on topic: How many shots can you pull before changing out the coffee in the portafilter?
Depends on whether one's doing frou-frou or real coffee, doesn't it? If the milk is the featured ingredient I don't see why one would need to change the coffee too often.
Oh, it's real coffee - the French vanilla flavor is starting to fade though so I thought I would add some more next time I clean it. I made sure I set the dial to espresso on the grinder at Safeway so I know I am on track too once I get that scale thing down pat.
Clean it!? And spoil the patina? Don't you watch Antique Roadshow; never clean anything! ::) :icon_puke_l:
-
Howdy Folks,
I don't care which espresso machine you have, or how much you paid for it, there are just two machine variables to manage. Get both under control and you're on your way to coffee nirvana. Let just one get away from you and you're in for a sad experience. Refer to the article by Dr. Ernesto Illy for details: [url]http://tinyurl.com/complexity-of-coffee[/url] ([url]http://tinyurl.com/complexity-of-coffee[/url])
Variable #1 Group Pressure: Conventional wisdom holds that group pressure should be adjusted to 9 bar. What CW doesn't address is whether this is dynamic (as the fluids are flowing through the puck) or static (with the fluids stalled at the puck - no flow) pressure. FYI: 9 bar dynamic pressure = 10 bar static pressure, and 9 bar = 131 psi.
Arbitrarily I've chosen it to mean 9 bar dynamic group pressure. To manage the pressure requires an adjustable OPV; present in all Classics, some Baby's, and other models. Those Gaggia models without an adjustable OPV can be modded by replacing the OEM water inlet with a Classic adjustable OPV (~$50). Then, with the aid of a portafilter mounted pressure gauge, the group pressure can be properly tuned.
Variable #2 Brew Temperature: Conventional wisdom holds that group temperature should be 196F to 203F. The Gaggia OEM brew tstat has a dead band of ~40F; meaning that at any given time the actual temp can be as much as 20F below or 20F above the optimum brew temps. To correct the problem requires one to temp surf (play with the steam tstat to manipulate the temperature) or mod the machine by adding a PID kit to replace
the brew tstat.
Personally, I've never been able to temp surf worth a damn. That's why I've championed the PID mod for Gaggia's. They're simple to install, kits range in price from $159 - $250, and make it dirt simple to hit a chosen brew temp. This is important, because in addition to the temps CW holds to be best, I've found
that each blend and single origin has its own temp sweet spot. A 1F difference in brew temp can make a huge difference in taste.
So, have you mastered the two machine variables yet?
Tex
Nope, not even close, but I am working on it.
These are my 1st & 2nd shots from my Gaggia Coffee that arrived today. Why they quit making this unit is beyond me - it is heavy built, looks great, and is easy to operate. I think the Virtuoso mates up OK if you want OK espresso - these shots were not exactly swill - but I consider it to be the weak link right now in my quest for mastery of espresso.
For Variable #1, I think a decent espresso grinder will create the proper resistance to make the pressure issue a non-issue. Since my budget is limited (next expenditure will be a nice grinder), I am going to try to master the elusive temp surf for variable #2 but will consider purchasing a PID if I am not successful.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/20128m9.jpg)
-
For Variable #1, I think a decent espresso grinder will create the proper resistance to make the pressure issue a non-issue.
First off those look like pretty good 1st and second shots to me. My first few shots looked nothing like that.
But grinder is about more than resistance/pressure after you get past the 2 variable theme.
-
These are my 1st & 2nd shots from my Gaggia Coffee that arrived today. Why they quit making this unit is beyond me - it is heavy built, looks great, and is easy to operate. I think the Virtuoso mates up OK if you want OK espresso - these shots were not exactly swill - but I consider it to be the weak link right now in my quest for mastery of espresso.
For Variable #1, I think a decent espresso grinder will create the proper resistance to make the pressure issue a non-issue. Since my budget is limited (next expenditure will be a nice grinder), I am going to try to master the elusive temp surf for variable #2 but will consider purchasing a PID if I am not successful.
I'm impressed that you got that far just out of the gate!
It's my opinion that the new owners of Gaggia saw the old Espresso/Coffee/Carezza/Evolution line up as being essentially the same machine, which they were internally. The Evo is the prettiest of the group and being plastic, cheap to make. Thus, the rest were redundant. Like you, I believe the Coffee is the best of that group.
V1 isn't resolvable by simply grinding finer. The idea is to properly adjust the pressure and then dial in the grinder. It's akin to making a car go faster; do you just dump more gas down the cylinders or do you tune the motor to make better use of the fuel it really needs?
If you check with the members over at the Gaggia forum, those who've modded their machines with an adjustable OPV will tell you it's one of two must-do mods to get the most from your Gaggia Coffee (the other is the SPV fix). The 1st mod costs ~$50 and the second ~$3, and you'll see an immediate improvement in your coffee!
Good luck!
-
For Variable #1, I think a decent espresso grinder will create the proper resistance to make the pressure issue a non-issue.
First off those look like pretty good 1st and second shots to me. My first few shots looked nothing like that.
But grinder is about more than resistance/pressure after you get past the 2 variable theme.
I don't recall actually ever seeing pics of your shots John! ??? For all we know they may not look that good yet? ;D
-
I don't recall actually ever seeing pics of your shots John! ??? For all we know they may not look that good yet? ;D
I've posted loads of them over the years....
But you are right, for all you know I pull 7 second gushers and call them good. :-X
From a few years ago before adding a pressure gauge and OPV.....so you decide what that might mean.. I also cleaned up the hack job I did on the portafilter but that had nothing to do with shot quality.
From the basket...
Carezza shot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/waxteeth/2703253035/#)
In the glass...
Carezza shot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/waxteeth/2701288471/#)
-
I don't recall actually ever seeing pics of your shots John! ??? For all we know they may not look that good yet? ;D
I've posted loads of them over the years....
But you are right, for all you know I pull 7 second gushers and call them good. :-X
From a few years ago before adding a pressure gauge and OPV.....so you decide what that might mean.. I also cleaned up the hack job I did on the portafilter but that had nothing to do with shot quality.
From the basket...
Carezza shot ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/waxteeth/2703253035/#[/url])
In the glass...
Carezza shot ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/waxteeth/2701288471/#[/url])
Oh yeah, now I remember seeing your beautiful shots! Previous comment retracted.
-
With a mouth like mine you had to know I had at least a little something in the tank.
;)
-
For Variable #1, I think a decent espresso grinder will create the proper resistance to make the pressure issue a non-issue.
First off those look like pretty good 1st and second shots to me. My first few shots looked nothing like that.
But grinder is about more than resistance/pressure after you get past the 2 variable theme.
I don't recall actually ever seeing pics of your shots John! ??? For all we know they may not look that good yet? ;D
I'll throw this out there; how hard is it, with entry-level equipment to get a shot that looks great? If someone can get a decent looking shot with crema, will the taste be accordingly great?
I see a lot of photos and videos of nice-looking espresso. But does that mean it would be something I'd like to drink?
-
Nope. I get crema all the time with my Saeco espresso machine, but that doesn't mean I don't pull more than a few sink shots.
-
The taste variable?
:o
-
For Variable #1, I think a decent espresso grinder will create the proper resistance to make the pressure issue a non-issue.
First off those look like pretty good 1st and second shots to me. My first few shots looked nothing like that.
But grinder is about more than resistance/pressure after you get past the 2 variable theme.
I don't recall actually ever seeing pics of your shots John! ??? For all we know they may not look that good yet? ;D
I'll throw this out there; how hard is it, with entry-level equipment to get a shot that looks great? If someone can get a decent looking shot with crema, will the taste be accordingly great?
I see a lot of photos and videos of nice-looking espresso. But does that mean it would be something I'd like to drink?
As usual, that depends? Crema is more an indicator of bean freshness than of flavor. I've had some beans that tasted great that were more than two weeks old, that had little (~1/8") crema but were sweet and flavorful And I've had shots that were nothing but crema that were also great; it all depends on the quality of the bean.
You'll see picks of nothing but crema in shots pulled with robusta that taste like old tires burning. And crema enhancing devices, like pressurized filter baskets, create loads of false crema, but this is not an indicator of bean taste.
Crema cascading like fresh poured Guinness Stout is often held up as the ideal, but it's just an aesthetic thing; pretty to look at.
2011/02/14: Gaggia Coffee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR5ArlEEhv0#ws)
-
As usual, that depends? Crema is more an indicator of bean freshness than of flavor. I've had some beans that tasted great that were more than two weeks old, that had little (~1/8") crema but were sweet and flavorful And I've had shots that were nothing but crema that were also great; it all depends on the quality of the bean.
You'll see picks of nothing but crema in shots pulled with robusta that taste like old tires burning. And crema enhancing devices, like pressurized filter baskets, create loads of false crema, but this is not an indicator of bean taste.
Crema cascading like fresh poured Guinness Stout is often held up as the ideal, but it's just an aesthetic thing; pretty to look at.
2011/02/14: Gaggia Coffee ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR5ArlEEhv0#ws[/url])
Then why post pics/videos?
The taste variable?
:o
Have you mastered the troublemaker variable? ;D
-
Yep..straight out of the box.
;D
-
You need to ask? >:D
-
Is crema the 'missing variable' bringing the count to three variables now?
-
Is crema the 'missing variable' bringing the count to three variables now?
No, I believe with the Troublemaker's Variable it's up to 4? Peter's Instigator Status has been declared a constant. ;D
-
Is crema the 'missing variable' bringing the count to three variables now?
No, I believe with the Troublemaker's Variable it's up to 4? Peter's Instigator Status has been declared a constant. ;D
Nicely done.
Pretty soon you're going to have to use both hands to count all the variables if Peter and John get involved. Those guys really are troublemakers. ;-)
-
I posted my photo collage more as a visual way of announcing "I got my Gaggia Coffee, UPS delivery service didn't kill it, so now I am up and running."
I liked the taste of the shots - the beans were fresh roasted so the crema should be thick as Tex stated - the beans were from Tree Frog Coffee roasters out of Texas. I was fortunate enough to win a pound of Galapagos Island Estate medium roasted beans. The shot I get is more mild than heavy and more balanced than super sweet or super fruity.
If I get a cell phone I will look for one with a video camera feature - I think a video of shots is more telling than a still photo - for now though, still photos are all I can create.
-
Is crema the 'missing variable' bringing the count to three variables now?
No, I believe with the Troublemaker's Variable it's up to 4? Peter's Instigator Status has been declared a constant. ;D
Nicely done.
Pretty soon you're going to have to use both hands to count all the variables if Peter and John get involved. Those guys really are troublemakers. ;-)
I find John a prince among men; it's his friends and cronies that get him in trouble. :angel:
Peter? What can you say about Peter that wouldn't be censored? >:D
-
As usual, that depends? Crema is more an indicator of bean freshness than of flavor. I've had some beans that tasted great that were more than two weeks old, that had little (~1/8") crema but were sweet and flavorful And I've had shots that were nothing but crema that were also great; it all depends on the quality of the bean.
You'll see picks of nothing but crema in shots pulled with robusta that taste like old tires burning. And crema enhancing devices, like pressurized filter baskets, create loads of false crema, but this is not an indicator of bean taste.
Crema cascading like fresh poured Guinness Stout is often held up as the ideal, but it's just an aesthetic thing; pretty to look at.
2011/02/14: Gaggia Coffee ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR5ArlEEhv0#ws[/url])
Then why post pics/videos?
Out of pity. :( I know some of you have trouble visualizing the spoken word, so I post pics/videos. :angel:
-
I find John a prince among men; it's his friends and cronies that get him in trouble.
;D
-
Is crema the 'missing variable' bringing the count to three variables now?
No, I believe with the Troublemaker's Variable it's up to 4? Peter's Instigator Status has been declared a constant. ;D
Nicely done.
Pretty soon you're going to have to use both hands to count all the variables if Peter and John get involved. Those guys really are troublemakers. ;-)
I find John a prince among men; it's his friends and cronies that get him in trouble. :angel:
Peter? What can you say about Peter that wouldn't be censored? >:D
Now you've done it. You have harmed my delicate feelings. ;D
-
I find John a prince among men; .....
I suspect you only say that because he has a Gaggia and a hottop.... ;D
-
I suspect you only say that because he has a Gaggia and a hottop.... ;D
And I have a SC/TO, lived in Texas, spent plenty of time around Pearland/Friendswood....... pretty much makes me his 2nd cousin. ;D
-
I suspect you only say that because he has a Gaggia and a hottop.... ;D
And I have a SC/TO, lived in Texas, spent plenty of time around Pearland/Friendswood....... pretty much makes me his 2nd cousin. ;D
Don't forget ... and you like tinkering with Gaggia's.
;D
-
Is crema the 'missing variable' bringing the count to three variables now?
No, I believe with the Troublemaker's Variable it's up to 4? Peter's Instigator Status has been declared a constant. ;D
Nicely done.
Pretty soon you're going to have to use both hands to count all the variables if Peter and John get involved. Those guys really are troublemakers. ;-)
I find John a prince among men; it's his friends and cronies that get him in trouble. :angel:
Peter? What can you say about Peter that wouldn't be censored? >:D
Now you've done it. You have harmed my delicate feelings. ;D
Bada bing!