Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: JojoS on March 11, 2015, 06:38:10 PM
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I have no doubt that there are some valid reasons for it from a pro roaster's perspective. Is it the slow cooling? The cold start or inadequate preheat? Maybe something else?
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Your question is phrased strangely by using the words "in GCBC".
I'm sure GCBC has not created either of those nicknames you mentioned.
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Yesterday, when BW used a similar term, it was the first time I've heard or read that on GCBC.
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I used "in GCBC" only because I have not read in any other coffee forum the Behmor referred that way. Yes, Peter is correct. The reference was made by BW recently and I believe in the past as well. As I am considering turning my Behmor into a FrankenBehmor to a certain degree, I am curious on how to fix the easy bake aspect of this roasting machine or if it is even worth the mod.
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I uttered that original epithet yesterday. I don't think Mr. Behmor earned the moniker, but that roaster sure did. Not a fan. I used one right around the time they came out for a couple of weeks, and was not happy. My buddy bought it and said, "Here, you got plenty of coffee - figure out how I'm supposed to use this!" It sounded great- in theory! The lack of power was my biggest gripe - there were options that really weren't options as to roast 'profiles'. But after playing around with it for awhile, it became apparent that the device pretty much always needed to be set on the one setting (P1B1? I can't remember now...) and the batch really had to be very close to 1# for an even roast. But even then it took too long, the roast curve was bumpy, and quite often first crack would come about too late in a long process, and would result in underdeveloped coffee. At the time, the drum itself was problematic, this has been fixed with a smaller mesh drum. The chaff system easily clogged. The cooling mechanism was nowhere near sufficient, resulting in many of your precious essential oils baking away afterwards as it took 7+ minutes to cool to below 100°F. For the sake of safety, the device was not even allowed to be programmed to run for the length of time it needed to most of the time, so buttons (that didn't always respond immediately or properly) had to be pressed to "extend" the roast - then you had to hope it did. You couldn't see what was happening very well, either. And the smoke suppression system actually hindered one of a roaster's most valuable senses in determining where the roast was - what it smelled like! The problems with insufficient voltage were another drawback - most folks that are serious about this roaster eventually began to use power monitors/modifiers (killawat, variac, transformer, etc.) to keep it from choking due to power supply issues.
For years I used to hear from people that used them to roast coffee that I supplied that were not getting the flavors that others were out of those beans, and would be erroneously blaming the beans. I do think that that roaster can be used successfully, but it really takes some ingenuity and skill as well as a modified process to make it work passably, and many people that are enamored by the device really are wanting something that they can just put beans into, press a button or two, and magically pull out the finished product with no real input/feedback during the process. Hence the 'Easy Bake' comparison - it does have a couple of parallels...
For the record, I am not a big fan of the Genecafe either, for some of the same reasons. ...and there definitely are some areas where a 1600 has positives, such as the catalytic smoke suppressor. The thing that surprises me the most is that after 7 years or so that nobody has really taken the next successful step forward in the evolution of this type of device. There are a billion worker bees in China that would just love to mass produce these so they could be obtained at your local Target for $149 next Christmas (ensuring that everyone gives their Keurig 2.0s to Goodwill, replaces their previous brewing device, and keeps the disposable planned obsolescence consumerist culture rolling on full throttle - booyah!).
WWBWD?
Increase the power, and add another element and possibly some insulation to allow for a steeper curve early in the roast. Give the device a 20A plug and maybe an internal transformer to guarantee the oomph to power that extra heat and give it stable control - . Dramatically increase fan power, and possibly include an ancillary cooler. With additional heating capability, and additional cooling capability, the actual bean temperature profile might 'arc' properly, rather than being nearly linear (with stalling dips) and not getting sufficient post first crack development time. Add a USB interface, so that the roast could be easily monitored, recorded, and even controlled from a notebook or tablet. There should probably also be some kind of ingenious bean temperature sensing device, not sure what would best happen there... Anyway, I'm not an engineer, and probably don't see the rationale for why some of this was done the way it was done, but I am convinced that there are steps that could be taken to improve this right out of my 'not recommended' zone and into the thumbs up range.
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I'll have to agree that "Easy Bake" is pretty fitting. From the time I get setup through having everything cleaned-up and put away again it only takes about 40 minutes. That's pretty easy.
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The device is certainly labeled properly. :D
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I've never been a fan of this roaster but I've seen probably hundreds of positive posts about dealings with Joe and his products. I think it's likely he paved the way by making it easier for people to get into it that might not have otherwise. That's a big deal.
But like BW said if it had plentiful power and could rapidly cool that would be better.
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... and could rapidly cool that would be better.
I'll never understand the big deal over the cooling capability or lack there of with the Behmor. An easily made cooling rig has that covered. Mine is a 5 gal bucket with a lid, #6 brass sieve and my vacuum. My beans are cooled to ambient temperature within 90 seconds. No matter what the shortcomings happen to be with the Behmor at least we're able to drink better coffee than you'd get from the grocery store.
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I have had plenty of good results with my Behmor. If one takes the time to learn it, they can learn it's 'quirks' as with any roaster and work with them, around them, however you want to say it. A lot of times I have heard folks complaining about the Behmor only to find out they were only putting 108 volts into it or something like that, ie it was NOT the roasters fault.
It is rated for a 1 Lb rating. I have done that on one of the first ones to come out but to be honest, Id say to stick with 12 - 13 oz for the most control over a full batch.
The only thing that I would say is possibly a 'quirk' that I wish wasn't there is that to regulate the heat it turns the heating lamps on / off, there is no 'lower heat' setting. So you just get into crack and power goes out for 30 seconds to the heaters until the temp drops enough to say kick it back in. I don't like cutting the heat totally off like that, especially when you got to the point where you need to keep it steady. It is an issue but not one that has critically ruined any beans in my experiences.
I also have to honestly say, until I seen this post, this is the first I have heard it called that, here or anywhere else.
Aaron
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Haha, well said BW.
I had used the Behmor for about 5 years and knew the quirks and walk-around. In retrospect, I missed the flavors for those five years, but no hard feelings though. It’s just a part of a long, personal journey. Without Behmor, I might be sipping the S*bucks coffee and live happily ever after. :)
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Okay since nobody has asked, how does the Behmor compare to the Hottop? I roast with the second generation Hottop and I enjoy a great cup. My Hottop is about8 years old and going strong. I think I get a great roast at a reasonable price. If i wasn't so cheap I could upgrade and have tons more control.
(Happy with my Hottop in Benbrook, Texas)
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I don't think the Behmor is an upgrade from the Hottop AT ALL...
The Huky is an upgrade but not the Behmor. Not that I think the Behmor is a poor roaster but it's several hundred dollars cheaper than a HT for a reason.
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I don't think the Behmor is an upgrade from the Hottop AT ALL...
The Huky is an upgrade but not the Behmor. Not that I think the Behmor is a poor roaster but it's several hundred dollars cheaper than a HT for a reason.
I'm pretty sure Nucer wasn't suggesting the Behmor as an upgrade to a HT. He was just wondering about the differences in roast quality between the two. I'd like to know this too. I've thought about upgrading to a HT "B" model. Since I roast in my kitchen I'm not sure I want to deal with the smoke from the HT. If the roast quality is that much better I might look into it though.
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I'm pretty sure Nucer wasn't suggesting the Behmor as an upgrade to a HT. He was just wondering about the differences in roast quality between the two. I'd like to know this too. I've thought about upgrading to a HT "B" model. Since I roast in my kitchen I'm not sure I want to deal with the smoke from the HT. If the roast quality is that much better I might look into it though.
So you haven’t picked up that HT for half price (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=18960.0)? :o
Personally I would go Behmor -> Quest M3 -> small gas fired sample roaster (something more integrated than Huky) route.
Maybe you should buy the used Mini-500 from Hank (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=17737.75) so that he will have an excuse upgrading to EVO-1. ;D
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I'm pretty sure Nucer wasn't suggesting the Behmor as an upgrade to a HT. He was just wondering about the differences in roast quality between the two. I'd like to know this too. I've thought about upgrading to a HT "B" model. Since I roast in my kitchen I'm not sure I want to deal with the smoke from the HT. If the roast quality is that much better I might look into it though.
So you haven’t picked up that HT for half price ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=18960.0[/url])? :o
Personally I would go Behmor -> Quest M3 -> small gas fired sample roaster (something more integrated than Huky) route.
Maybe you should buy the used Mini-500 from Hank ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=17737.75[/url]) so that he will have an excuse upgrading to EVO-1. ;D
I couldn't convince myself to make the drive into Brooklyn. At $650 for a barely used HT, that was a very good deal.
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I have been rocking the HT for many years. It is alearning curve and I have done away with the top filter and use a scotch brite forthe rear. Another learning curve after that to adjust in airflow. My roasts are consistent and awesome. I do have a bean probe in that helps immensely. My son has a Behmor and to me its kinda like driving at midnight without the lights on. To each his own, its about prefernce and product in my book.
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Thanks for the feedback BW. Good input but I had a strong feeling that this thread will be talking about a different roaster by the time it gets to the 2nd page. :)
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I have friends at work who use a Behmor and they have complained about not being able to get to second crack. I have never had that problem with th Hottop. I like MLee love my Hottop and will stay with what I have.
(Happy and I know it in Benbrook, Texas)
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Nucer, voltage is very critical to the Behmor and second crack if you are running it near capacity. Keeping it clean near the temp sensor is pretty important too. You are one of the engineer geeks, and work a power plant. Go talk to one of your I&C guys (the ones who DO actually keep the plant running and make the 'engineers' stuff actually work after extensive in the field on the fly modification ;D ) Tell them to give you a big ole rheostat and dial it up to about 128 volts or so at load and you'll be amazed how well it performs then.
Aaron