Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: BoldJava on June 10, 2008, 06:38:37 AM
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Someone finally blinked. The Gene Cafe has been reduced in price at one site, $429. It took 6 months of the Behmor sitting out there at $300 to pull the Gene down in price. I am a bit surprised that it took that long.
http://www.coffeewholesalers.com/genecafe.htm
B|Java
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Gene Roast thread: Forgot what it was like to roast with the Gene after months on the Behmor.
Gene set-up:
^ Large chaff catcher, vented out kitchen window with alum flex-duct (use shop vac after every 2nd roast to pull chaff from catcher)
^ Fan in window, exhaust - http://xrl.us/WellHoney (Link to www.target.com)
^ Roasting under kitchen vent
^ Kitchen full of roasting aroma, some smoke, but odor not moving thru house. We'll see what Czarina thinks when she comes home...
Profiles:
^ Pre-heat unit to 360
^ Roast 220g, 8 ounces
^ High growns, 480 to 15 seconds into 1st, => 460 to edge of second
^ Brazils, 470=>455
^ Konas, have to dig thru my notes
Stuck by:
^ Value of the visual. Makes me realize how 'eyeballing' is important to me and miss it when using the Behmor
Why the Gene today? Behmor is not coming thru for me on larger beans. Miss the visual cues that Gene offers. Trying to tame the Gene odor in prep for Winter roasting.
B|Java
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my newest profile. I have based this on the profile used at the SCAA roasting class:
I have done this with preheat and without - about a 30 sec difference in time to 1st crack. No difference in flavor that I can pick up.
480 to 1st crack.
at 1st crack reduce to 427 at start of 1st crack, pretty much letting exothermy carry it most of the way through first crack. If it slows too much, raise to 431
2 minutes after start of first crack increase to 437 for a city to city+. 440-450 for a darker roast.
finish at 16-18 minutes depending on degree of roast and how long I want to stretch the time after first crack.
My last roast a person I served it to asked if this coffee was hazelnut flavored. I definitely got hazelnut, pear, chocolate. I still feel the heater is underpowered, but still responsive. Most of the concerns here relate to slow ramp to fc and poor cooling.
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Dialing in the best roast. Gene Cafe
Been reading B|Whiskers insights on roasting and kicking the can with Peter. Trying to fine tune and learn more, particularly since I have gone back to the Gene and have visuals and more control with temp.
Took a bean with which I am familiar (Bol Nakhaki general farm) and roasted it four ways, in succession, all to the edge of 2nd crack (FC). Began each roast with a pre-warmed Gene to 350F. Cupped each today, using same prep (Yama). Interesting results.
Temp is merely reading (setting) of external heat read, not mass temp.
Roast 1: flat, dull, 'listless' cup. Didn't resemble a Nakhaki
^ 350: 0-2:00
^ 480: 2:01-5:44
^ 458: 5:45-7:45, yellow stage
^ 480: 7:46-11:30, 1st crack at 10:45)
^ 471: 11:31-14:45, no second
Roast 2: sharp edge, lacked sweetness I associated with the Nakhaki; not a developed flavor-spectrum. Moves towards a sharp edge.
^ 480: 0-12:55 (first crack at 9:30)
Roast 3: Oh, now this is the Nakhaki. Lightly chewable, nice caramel going on. I visualize a smile or saucer shape to the taste. Great cup. Phew. Dramatic taste difference with a minor tweak.
^ 480: 0-10:19 (first crack at 9:35)
^ 471: 10:20-13:25
Roast 4: Good cup but not as 'wide' as roast 3. Narrower horizontal tastes. Flattened the cup compared to the 3rd roast.
^ 480: 00-10:35 (first at 9:50)
^ 460: 10:36-13:45
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What a cool experiment!
So the one you liked simply had the heat turned up and stayed up, right into 1st, and then heat was turned down for a coast?
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What a cool experiment!
So the one you liked simply had the heat turned up and stayed up, right into 1st, and then heat was turned down for a coast?
Not sure about 'coast' but minimally lower. I learn by doing and reviewing. Having this experience cements the learning in for me. I could have read this from others and it wouldn't register in the way this has.
Good exercise. Will tweak my roasts going forward, noting growing elevation and making adjustment in initial setting.
B|Java
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What a cool experiment!
So the one you liked simply had the heat turned up and stayed up, right into 1st, and then heat was turned down for a coast?
Not sure about 'coast' but minimally lower. I learn by doing and reviewing. Having this experience cements the learning in for me. I could have read this from others and it wouldn't register in the way this has.
Good exercise. Will tweak my roasts going forward, noting growing elevation and making adjustment in initial setting.
B|Java
What I'm reading is the batch you like the most had virtually zero profiling, right? Turn the heat to set point, and let the heat work its magic.
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What I'm reading is the batch you like the most had virtually zero profiling, right? Turn the heat to set point, and let the heat work its magic.
I am not biting. Dangle the worm, chum the water, flick the jig. No bites. High-priced <im>poster if I have ever seen one.
B|Java
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Man this is complicated stuff.
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Man this is complicated stuff.
It is complicated. I'm baffled; there was an honest question, and now B|Jiggler's talking about fishing. I'm clueless.
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It is complicated. I'm baffled; there was an honest question, and now B|Jiggler's talking about fishing. I'm clueless.
I'm guessing by your question that you're in possession of some ideas about possible useful ways to vary temperature prior to 1st crack? I can't use numbers (I'm sort of butting in here, since I don't actually have a Gene roaster), but I'd love to hear some general early profile principles.
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I'm guessing by your question that you're in possession of some ideas about possible useful ways to vary temperature prior to 1st crack? I can't use numbers (I'm sort of butting in here, since I don't actually have a Gene roaster), but I'd love to hear some general early profile principles.
Donn, there is good material re: your question here:
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3679.msg51269#msg51269
B|Java
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After taking the SCAA's intermediate roasting class and my class with Victor Mondry. I have come to this kind of thinking:
482 to the start of 1st crack. This is to minimize time to 1st crack. I am getting FC in about 12 min. without preheating.
dial back to 429-31 to slow the roast and let the exothermy of first crack take it for about 2 minutes.
after 2 mins, in the late portion of first crack, I increase to 437 for a city+ roast and 440 for a full city or beyond.
I am trying a new twist. I accidentally left the cover off the chaff collector for the first 5 minutes. Interestingly, the measured air temp increased faster due to improved air flow. Then I put the cap back on and continued as usual. The time to first crack was the same. I am just drank a city+ Yerg roasted in that fashion. It is dynamic with great brightness (too much for my wife).
I can't measure bean temp but I suspect that it lagged air temp more than usual with a faster ramp in the latter portions of the ramp to first crack. This had the effect of preserving the brightness better than the usual roast.
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After taking the SCAA's intermediate roasting class and my class with Victor Mondry. I have come to this kind of thinking:
482 to the start of 1st crack. This is to minimize time to 1st crack. I am getting FC in about 12 min. without preheating.
dial back to 429-31 to slow the roast and let the exothermy of first crack take it for about 2 minutes.
after 2 mins, in the late portion of first crack, I increase to 437 for a city+ roast and 440 for a full city or beyond.
...
I have plenty of the Nakhaki field grade bean. I will try your profile, side by side with my favorite from this past week, and see which cups better for me.
How quickly into 1st are you dialing back? Immediately? My concern with your profile is that it would seem to make sense with a 20 kilo drum roaster. I am unsure how much heat is truly built up in an 8-9 ounce mass of coffee in an air-drum hybrid like the Gene.
But then again, I stunk up the class in physics. I will give it a fair taste test.
B|Java
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I have used this process at Victors with a 250 gm sample roaster. at the SCAA we roasted 2 lbs on an IR3. In both settings we turned it back to where the flame is lowest. I think the drum on the sample roaster has more relative thermal mass and is better insulated which is why I left the temp as high as i did. The Gene is underpowered and has too much air contact at the outside of the drum. My suspicion is that the drum is cooler than the grate. I wish the plastic cover covered more of the drum to help maintain temp. But then you might reach temps that would melt the plastic. A more robust material would probably raise the cost.
I was thinking that the thermal mass was going to be a problem and did find it was when I dialed back to 410. Dialing back to 429, the minimum air temp will be 422ish which is still above the temp where 2nd crack usually ends. I get a first crack that lasts about 3 minutes.
I wait until I feel 1st is underway (this usually means the pops occur in groups - about 15-30 secs after 1st pop usually). Then after 2 mins of first when it is starting to slow I turn it up to my final temp.
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am wondering why I am taking 12 minutes to 1st crack....
I will try a couple of roasts with a Columbian I picked tonight.
1 the new profile with preheat.
1 with cap off for the 1st 5 minutes then follow the new profile.
1 with 482 until 1st crack then dial back to 450 for the duration of the roast (my old profile)
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am wondering why I am taking 12 minutes to 1st crack....
I will try a couple of roasts with a Columbian I picked tonight.
1 the new profile with preheat.
1 with cap off for the 1st 5 minutes then follow the new profile.
1 with 482 until 1st crack then dial back to 450 for the duration of the roast (my old profile)
I am working with 230g for all roasts on the Gene. Know the capacity is higher but working out profiles first. I have 120volts with a Variac and a KillAWatt measuring it.
B|Java
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I did my 3 roasts last night. I am not sure that 230 grams has enough beans to generate the heat needed to maintain 1st crack.
All of the roasts took 11 minutes to 1st crack (do I see a variac in my future?) and ended at 16 minutes for a city+ roast.
With leaving the cap off for 5 minutes the temp was about 10 degrees lower than in the roasts with the cap on. I suspect that although the roast to FC timed the same, the slope in the last 6 minutes was steeper.
I will be cupping them tonight. If I can shake loose Friday, I will bring them to Peter's (With beer).
NGB is making an "Imperial Weizen" that is pretty good, I will see if I can locate more.
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I won't be going to Milwaukee this week is Cheese Days
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I just PM'd B|Java, and suggested he refrain from opening this thread. ;D
But thanks, Pyment, for all the ammunition! :angel:
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(http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c010.gif)
I will bring 12 year old mead (a cranberry blossom "show mead") the next time I am up there. My own.
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Well Pyment CheeseDays is actually in Monroe.
Here is a little tune to help you find your way.
Come to Cheese Days in Monroe.
That?s the place for you to go.
Music, dancing, yodeling, too.
And a big parade for you.
And we know you will be pleased.
When you taste Green County Cheese.
Come to Cheese Days, come to Cheese Days,
Come to Cheese Days in Monroe!
I will be smoking some cheese this weekend. It would probably go real good with your mead.
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I will be smoking some cheese this weekend.
How do you keep it lit? Does it give a guy a good buzz?
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I am glad to see this post come back to life. I have been playing around with Gene Cafe roasting profiles for a long time. It is challenging since converting the conventional wisdom relative to roasting profiles to the Gene is not simple. Add to that the lack of ability to get a probe in the bean mass and you have a tough job.
For most roasts, I dry at between 300 and 360 degrees for about 5 minutes. I then have an intermediate temperature of between 440 and 450 degrees for another 5 minutes and a finishing temperature of about 460 degrees until the roast ends. This allows for several minutes of flavor development between first and second crack. This profile gives nice body and is particularly good for City/+ roasts since it slowly builds without giving too much momentum to the roast.
I have also had decent success drying at the same rate as above, then cranking the temperature up to 480 until 1st crack +30 seconds, and then finishing at 460 degrees. However, this profile can lead to thinner body and more residual acidity, which may or may not be what you are after.
Recently I have been playing around with longer drying times/longer times at lower temperatures, and the results have not been good. I have also compared leaving out the intermediate temperature step in the first profile I mentioned, and the coffee suffered.
For those Gene roasters, I keep track of profiles at my blog: http://scottoscoffeeandtea.blogspot.com/
As an aside, I have a friend of mine who is a Chemical Engineer trying to work out some equations for the relationship of the environment temperature read by the Gene to the actual bean temperature. It is definitely much lower, but I would like to have some sort of insight into it.
-Scotto
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I have compared 2 of my 3 roasts. All seem to be city+
482/450 round sweet but less acid and less complex. Comfort food.
482/431/440 much more acid, more aromatic. These tend to dominate the profile with sweetness taking a back seat. More interesting but also more likely not to please all palates. I like this better, but will everyone?
I have thought about wiring a Taylor oven guide to the central grid on the Gene, but haven't found one in town yet.
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Interesting. I wonder how much variation there is Gene to Gene. The roasts I have done ending at temperatures below 460 or so taste baked and lifeless.
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Interesting. I wonder how much variation there is Gene to Gene. The roasts I have done ending at temperatures below 460 or so taste baked and lifeless.
Variation... Without knowing voltage, I think we will have trouble comparing profiles.
B|Java
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I am shooting for a city to city plus roast. If I am trying to get to full city or above I use a higher final temp. The purpose of the lower temp during first crack is to keep the roast from getting away from me and use the exothermic reaction generate the heat to carry it through 1st crack without stalling it. Then turn it up as it slows to prevent any drop in temp.
I chose a middle temp where the bottom of the temp fluctuation is still above where I would expect the internal bean temperature to be at the end of second crack.
the final temp was chosen based on what degree of roast I was shooting for.
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In retrospect, The longer roasting time on my Gene probably meant the heating unit was about to quit. >:(
I still have my iRoar as a back up. I will have to pull out my notes on that and get back to some profiles for that.
It does mean that I will be entering into discussions with my spouse regarding getting a new roaster (Ambex, Diedrich, US Roasters).
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Hey Py, here's a cool roaster!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Planters-Peanut-Coffee-Roaster_W0QQitemZ110290724680QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110290724680 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Planters-Peanut-Coffee-Roaster_W0QQitemZ110290724680QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110290724680)
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Hey Py, here's a cool roaster!
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Planters-Peanut-Coffee-Roaster_W0QQitemZ110290724680QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110290724680[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Planters-Peanut-Coffee-Roaster_W0QQitemZ110290724680QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110290724680[/url])
somthin nutty bought that roaster :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
(http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/0d/76/547d_12.JPG)
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Isn't it cool?! I'd call that a priceless piece of Americana. Too bad the accountant has my number this year (and it's a red one...).
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Folks: Serious question -- just into first and the exit temp dropped toward ambient. It appears the heating element or the controller have failed. If so, this would make the second such failure in about 14 months of roasting. After the first failure -- the Gene could not be coaxed to reach roasting temp. Contacted the folks at FreshRoast and they hustled a replacement heater, thermostat, and controller to me. After swapping the parts, we were back to excellent roasting. That was about three months ago. This failure presents differently but has the same result. Is anyone else experiencing these types of troubles? Fred
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My roaster heating unit quit 3 years out. I sent it back, it was fixed and I can use it again.
that is about all there is to it.
I can't say its a pattern. Things break.
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I like my Gene better than my Fresh roast.
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Haven't been around in a while, but I've had to send my GeneCafe in 4 times since I bought it. Disappointed, but then again I've only paid for shipping; each time, it's either been replaced with a new machine, or serviced and returned to me, often including some new parts (like the roasting chamber) that I'd assumed that I'd have to pay for. So overall, their servicing company has kept me happy.
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You can now buy the Gene Cafe (and FreshRoast ) parts on Tim Skaling's site via PayPal. Vast improvement over trying to track Tim down and get the price and give credit card info and...and...
Gene Cafe owners. Make sure you have a reserve of those chaff sweeper bumpers on hand. They break in half and come off at the most inopportune times.
http://www.freshbeansinc.com/_/Store-Products.html
B|Java
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RIP, Heater Element 1. (June 2, 2006-August 2, 2009, Milwaukee, WI)
Gene Heater Element, no son of Fresco, but rather Gene Sr., passed into bean-heaven yesterday. Gene H. Element was happy until the last moment, clipping through nearly 8.5 lbs of Yemen, Brazilian, and of course his favorite, Bolivian. Gene offered his last dragon poost on Stubbie's Brazilian.
Survivors include Ned Nesco, a dusty, dusty fellow residing in Mr Bold Java's basement as well as Stash Groen, brother. A wake will be held on Saturday, August 8th, when Gene's successor is expected ($55). In lieu of flowers, friends are asked to roast a pound for a friend and raise a cup in a toast to Gene. On line notes of sympathy may be left at http://aintnosunshinewhenyouregonebillwithers.com.
Bold Java, sad but thankful
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Will dissemble, clean, and install the new heater assembly this afternoon, using Eddie Dove's great pictoral blog:
http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/2008/08/gene-cafe-how-to-disassemble-for.html
Gene will live on.
B|Java
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Gene lives. Two stripped screws where the screws were buried in a sealing silicon. Quick trip to hardware store, one misalignment in reassembling, and voila.
Here is to 3 more years.
B|Java
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Doing some experimenting with Gene Profiles. Cupping them out, one by one this week. Inconclusive. I think I will try again with the no-name Guat I bought (nice fresh bean) and do some side-by-side comparisons.
B|Java
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RIP, 2nd heater. Aug 2nd, 2009-September 4, 2009.
Yes, less than 2 months. Cause of early burial in the garden out back? 16 somewhat back to back roasts on a day off on Wed, as I roasted for a friend's church's silent auction. Only thing that is silent right now is the sound of the Gene pretending to heat up.
Learning. Heater one went south the day I did 18 roasts, back to back -- after 3.5 years. Oh, do we see a pattern developing here? Talked with Tim Skaling (inventor/manufacturer of the FreshRoast -- new ones due on market at Christmas) who does Gene's maintenance and distribution in North America. The thermostat is lodged within the heater, a UL requirement. More than likely that I smoked the thermostat (I got lost in the discussion at this point...). It is too difficult to disassemble and reinstall just the thermostat at home.
Heater 3 on its way. No more corporal punishment on the Gene. From now on, we will use "time-outs" instead. I get it.
B|Java
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Send Nimbus (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=7746.0) a PM.
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Send Nimbus ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=7746.0[/url]) a PM.
I would but I took a look at my friend's parochial report. He needs to grow the flock 10-fold and then I will buy Nimbus's back-breaking-boy. I assume you are available to help me down the stairs with it when I pull the trigger.
B|Java
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In the course of becoming way too familiar with working guts of my Gene, I learned that it is very important to manage the cycle times of the GeneCafe. Back-to-back roasts kill the heater. Fred
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OK - here's my 'umble contribution to the collective Gene Cafe wisdom - as a very early GC adapter, I've suffered through most of the issues mentioned in the other posts, and even managed to burn one up in a genuine chaff fire (a plastic grocery bag got sucked across the intake vent just as the roast hit 470 degrees and phone rang in the next room.) Yeah, the cats exiting the house at War Emergency Flank Speed, the neighbors pounding on the door, and the smoke billowing out of the kitchen, were clues that something had gone Dreadfully Wrong.
Our current roasting setup outputs through an extended chaff collector feeding 8 feet of 3-inch flexible dryer hose led to a 3HP shop vacuum filled about half full of wood shavings and controlled by a Variac, the vac is then vented to the outside using its 2.5 inch hose. The wood shavings in the shop vac significantly reduce smoke, somewhat lower the exhaust temperatures, and provide enough back pressure that the GC comes up to temperature more quickly.
Slightly restricting the roaster's airflow allows me to use the shop vac to effectively control temperatures throughout the roast, eliminates the need to preheat, and permits bean loads of 250 grams.
As the roast begins, I set the Variac to around 30VAC, just enough for the vac to tick over and give some airflow through the GC's chamber. In about 4.5 minutes, or at an indicated 325-350 F, I kick the Variac to 45-50VAC - enough to give visable airflow in the chamber - and keep using the Variac to control the indicated temperatures between 435-455 F for roughly 10-12 minutes. Once the beans have gone through first crack, and present a nicely plump and slightly oily surface, I raise the Variac to around 75-80VAC and try to keep enough air flowing through the bean mass that second crack would be delayed out 3-4 minutes - I try to maintain 455-465 F, but accept any temperature over 450 and less than 470 as OK. The idea being to throughly heat and carmelize the beans, keeping them at the second crack threshold, while bleeding off any exothermic heat.
When I judge the roast done, I hit the GC's red button to start cooling, and wrench the Variac over to 140VAC, the poor shop vac howls like a gazillion mother-in-laws getting goosed, but it pulls the bean temps down at well over 100 F/minute, which is about 3-4 times faster than an unboosted GC cools.
Cheers
Jim
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Gene lives. Two stripped screws where the screws were buried in a sealing silicon. Quick trip to hardware store, one misalignment in reassembling, and voila.
Here is to 3 more years.
B|Java
Well, Gene lives again, 5:20 minutes to max heat. Let's hope it lasts more than 3 months this time. I think I have learned my lesson about roasting back-to-back mercilessly on it.
B|Java
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OK - here's my 'umble contribution to the collective Gene Cafe wisdom....Our current roasting setup outputs through an extended chaff collector feeding 8 feet of 3-inch flexible dryer hose led to a 3HP shop vacuum filled about half full of wood shavings and controlled by a Variac, the vac is then vented to the outside using its 2.5 inch hose. The wood shavings in the shop vac significantly reduce smoke, somewhat lower the exhaust temperatures, and provide enough back pressure that the GC comes up to temperature more quickly.
Slightly restricting the roaster's airflow allows me to use the shop vac to effectively control temperatures throughout the roast, eliminates the need to preheat, and permits bean loads of 250 grams.
As the roast begins, I set the Variac to around 30VAC, just enough for the vac to tick over and give some airflow through the GC's chamber. In about 4.5 minutes, or at an indicated 325-350 F, I kick the Variac to ...
Phew, I certainly appreciate the way you are managing your roasts, though I don't have a clue how you managed the mechanics, bean chemistry, or the heat physics involved. It is a 'leap of faith' for me. I call your system with the Gene the Kierkegaard Method.
B|PlugnPlay
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Phew, I certainly appreciate the way you are managing your roasts, though I don't have a clue how you managed the mechanics, bean chemistry, or the heat physics involved. It is a 'leap of faith' for me. I call your system with the Gene the Kierkegaard Method.
Sorry - I wasn't trying to be mystical or unclear, but given the known vagueness of the Gene Café's temperature sensors I think that trying to be 'precise' is misleading, or at least somewhat optimistic.
What I think is important is that, given the Gene's somewhat underpowered heating element, the best way I've found to achieve reasonably repeatable roasting profiles is to attack the problem by aggressively managing the airflow through the roaster - something which a large shop vacuum on a Variac does quite well.
Just to clear up any confusion, I'm using the large GC chaff collector:
(http://coffeetime.wdfiles.com/local--resized-images/large-chaff-collector-gene-cafe/Large_chaff_collector/small.jpg)
A 3" dryer hose feeds from the collector's top vent to a shop vac on the floor, and the vac exhausts through a 2 1/2" hose run outside under the garage door.
While this lash up is very good for controlling the airflow through the roaster, it still doesn't address the underlying issue that the GC's heating element is somewhat marginal, especially for large beans like Monsooned Malabar or Mysore Nuggets which tend to get baked, not roasted.
I'm currently experimenting with a technique that some very large automated commercial roasters use - which is to pre-heat the incoming air in a plenum chamber before it enters the roaster. Since the GC draws its fresh air from a vent in the lower right front corner, it's a simple matter to construct a wooden plenum chamber 15" wide, 5" deep, and 4" high with an open top on which the Gene Café sits - a 1 1/2" hole on one edge of the chamber neatly fits my original roasting heat gun, which provides enough calories to raise the air temperature inside the plenum to 150-170 degrees in under a minute.
I'm still developing and refining this new process, but essentially I preheat the plenum to about 150 degrees, begin the roast, and continue to preheat until the beans mass begins to change color (3-4 minutes, roughly 375-400 degrees ), cut off the preheat, and allow the GC to control the roast until just after ST crack. At which point I turn preheat back on and use the shop vac to control the temperature until I reach the desired roast level.
A word of caution - if you want to try this for yourself, be aware that the GC's fan does NOT appear to be molded from high-temperature plastic, so I'm being VERY careful not to allow the plenum temps to exceed 200 degrees.
Cheers
Jim
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YIKES ..... Just when things were going great, wham there goes the heating element. I've been very happy with my GC. Can someone tell me who to contact (I can't find my info that came with the machine ) Sounds like they have great service. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Don
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YIKES ..... Just when things were going great, wham there goes the heating element. I've been very happy with my GC. Can someone tell me who to contact (I can't find my info that came with the machine ) Sounds like they have great service. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Don
Sure, Tim Skaling. He is very responsive. He just got a new shipment of heaters from Korea.
http://www.freshbeansinc.com/_/Store-Products.html
B|Java
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Thanks BJ. I'll get in touch with him.
Don
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Well after contacting Tim It was suggested that I give the machine a good cleaning. Worked like a charm after that. I didn't realize that the chaff collector would get so dirty. Good habit to get into. Maybe there's a few more good years left in "Gene" after all.
Don
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Buttwhiskers is assisting me on improving my bean profiling. I am attempting to keep a bean in the caramelization phase (350-370) for a longer period (double my present approach). This is a struggle as the temp showing on the Gene is merely a reflection of temp of air at external vent. We have no measurement of bean mass.
I had been running a profile that B|W estimates was giving me just a 1.5 minute stretch in that temp zone that sweetens the bean. He made suggestions. I employed them to about 5 different roasts, tweaking here and cranking there. The profile below worked extremely well with the JBM (as a island grown, I treat it as low grown, even though elevation is 3500+ plus).
Old Island Profile (1.5 min caramelization)
360 for 6 min
464 until 1C begins plus :45
450 until just before 2c (~3 min after 1C begins)
New Island Profile 119V at the wall
390 for 4:50
469 thru 9:30
448 thru start of 1C (13:15)
464 from 13:15 until 14:15 (in subsequent roasts, I am going to tweak by shortening this 60-second window and do some comparison cuppings. This length of time could account for some of the heightened depth of the JBM in the cup)
452 until pull and external cool (16:05)
This gave me a city ++ and I noted a much sweeter bean
I will be working and tweaking (adjusting for higher grown) but this will be a basic framework for a leaping off point.
Thanks a ton B|W. Lots to learn, much to enjoy.
B|Java
Edit, 12/3. Similar profile but a bit higher temps did a very nice, sweet roast on the Elida Estates.
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448 thru start of 1C (13:15)
464 from 13:15 until 14:15 (in subsequent roasts, I am going to tweak by shortening this 60-second window and do some comparison cuppings. This length of time could account for some of the heightened depth of the JBM in the cup)
452 until pull and external cool (16:05)
This gave me a city ++ and I noted a much sweeter bean
BJ..... Am I understanding this right. If your 1C is starting at 13:15, you then RAISE the temp to 464 for about a min. Followed by a drop in temp to 452 for about 2 min., then cool. I was always under the impression that we should drop the temp a bit after 1C gets started, to develop some sweetness. Have you any updates on this profile with other beans? I am going to give this go with some Mexican Oaxaca that I have.
Don
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BJ..... Am I understanding this right. If your 1C is starting at 13:15, you then RAISE the temp to 464 for about a min. Followed by a drop in temp to 452 for about 2 min., then cool. I was always under the impression that we should drop the temp a bit after 1C gets started, to develop some sweetness. Have you any updates on this profile with other beans? I am going to give this go with some Mexican Oaxaca that I have.
Don
Don, you understand correctly. The Gene doesn't give a bean mass temp. Given the open, tumbling nature of the hopper, I don't believe we are adding that much heat but rather sustaining the temp for 1st crack.
I tweaked last night again. I will post some profiles once I have found the profiling that gives good caramelization (bean mass is at 350-370) That is what I am after. Meantime, I am just a-tweaking (that doesn't sound good - whoops).
B|Java
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1st crack.
I tweaked last night again. That is what I am after. Meantime, I am just a-tweaking (that doesn't sound good - whoops).
B|Java
Ohhh Nooo....Sounds like B|Java is back on the hard stuff :o LOL
All this Gene talk makes me want to get mine fired up.
Day off + Gene Cafe x Huge stash = Christmas Gifts
Rob :D
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BJ, you are talking about temps that are given by the read-out on the Gene and not temps taken at the back end with a thermometer, correct. I just did a Sumatra using your profile and I think I might have to add a few degrees. With this batch it was hard to hear all the way through 1C. Will give this a sampling in a couple of days.
Don
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BJ, you are talking about temps that are given by the read-out on the Gene and not temps taken at the back end with a thermometer, correct. I just did a Sumatra using your profile and I think I might have to add a few degrees. With this batch it was hard to hear all the way through 1C. Will give this a sampling in a couple of days.
Don
Yes, I am quoting Gene's LCD readout. RE: Profile above: JBM is an island bean and I use a gentle profile despite the elevation at which it is grown. I wouldn't go that low of a profile with a Sumatran.
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Would you not start at the same temp for the "drying out stage" ....... 390 degrees.
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Would you not start at the same temp for the "drying out stage" ....... 390 degrees.
Don, I had a series of coffees where I started at 390 for drying. They were a vast improvement over my former 476/461 profling. Last evening I tried a variety of profiles, all trying to sweeten the roast. I will begin to cup them out this week.
All of them assume that the LCD temps are consistently reporting a temp way above the actual bean mass. I am trying to stretch the roast between 350-370 (actual mass), while never letting it flatten out or stall at any point in the roast.
We are always guessing the temp of the mass. B|Java
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BJ....... You'll have to keep us informed as to how they cupped. I am off during the holidays and plan to do some testing as well.
Don
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Had an excellent cup of the JBM last evening (72 hrs rest).
City plus as a result of this profile. 120V at the outlet, power off. Will be working out some Indo as well as high grown profiles around its structure:
374 thru 5 min
469 thru 7 min
380 thru 9 min
465 thru 14:05 (1st crack at 13:35)
452 till pull 16:45 (no second)
Nice flavor development. Chocolates, balanced, full and rich taste.
I contrast this with the profile below which yielded a cup with less flavor and just a bit of an edge to it. Not as balanced and didn't offer the richness in the flavors. City Plus.
470 thru 2 min
374 thru 5 min
469 thru 6:30 min
390 thru 8:00 min
469 thru 13:45 (1st crack at 12:45)
451 thru pull at 16:05, no second
B|Jamaica
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Gears took a dump about a month ago. Have another Gene on a loaner from Cheryl.
Great resources:
^ Gene parts (22 pages of diagrams and parts): Huge pdf: http://www.genecafe.co.kr/en/download/ppt/IPB%28English_Version_Rev.01-030606%29.pdf (http://www.genecafe.co.kr/en/download/ppt/IPB%28English_Version_Rev.01-030606%29.pdf)
^ How to troubleshoot gears. Wish me well (got a "C" in Shop in 8th grade and that was a gift): http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-drive-motor-cog (http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-drive-motor-cog)
B|10Thumbs
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BJ .... thanks for the link to the site. I'm sure it will come in handy some day. I've been working with some of the profile that you were using and it is "a good thing". I have some Sumatra Mandheling from Chad that I'm trying to get right. This is the profile......
374 for 5 min.
469 for 2 min.
420 for 2 min.
465 thru to 1c + 1 min.
474 to end
I have yanking this at 17:40 give or take a bit. First crack with this is around 13:45, but does not come on very strong or loud. I can't determine when 1c ends. I don't do any cupping but the results in our pour over are fine. We mix this with some Mexican Oaxaca. Was wondering if anyone is having the same results with the Sumatra. I feel that I should be able to pull a bit more sweetness out of this. Will keep trying.
Don
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BJ .... thanks for the link to the site. I'm sure it will come in handy some day. I've been working with some of the profile that you were using and it is "a good thing". I have some Sumatra Mandheling from Chad that I'm trying to get right. This is the profile......
...Was wondering if anyone is having the same results with the Sumatra. I feel that I should be able to pull a bit more sweetness out of this. Will keep trying.
Don
Don, I have found that particular Mandehling the cleanest Sumatran I have ever cupped. Not sure there is more sweetness to be had. It is like someone swept the forest floor before picking it. Cllllllllllean cup.
B|Java
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BJ.. have you been using a similar profile with your Sumatran? Do you hear a good 1c?
Don
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BJ.. have you been using a similar profile with your Sumatran? Do you hear a good 1c?
Don
Very subdued, just a few pops. Profile similar to the 1st JBM with ever so slightly higher temps.
B|Java
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Gears took a dump about a month ago. Have another Gene on a loaner from Cheryl.
Great resources:
^ Gene parts (22 pages of diagrams and parts): Huge pdf: [url]http://www.genecafe.co.kr/en/download/ppt/IPB%28English_Version_Rev.01-030606%29.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.genecafe.co.kr/en/download/ppt/IPB%28English_Version_Rev.01-030606%29.pdf[/url])
^ How to troubleshoot gears. Wish me well (got a "C" in Shop in 8th grade and that was a gift): [url]http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-drive-motor-cog[/url] ([url]http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-drive-motor-cog[/url])
B|10Thumbs
Got the buggah down and found the difficulty. 1st pic. Tiniest gear off the motor shaft has a hairline split (right at my finger nail), clear through it. It will not stay in place on shaft and continually works itself loose.
2nd pic, 3 gears. Smallest one is indicated by screwdriver blade. I will need to call Tim Skales and buy a couple of them. Part isn't listed on the site.
I should be up and running shortly.
B|Java
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Hearing the Cracks...
I am not sure if I read it on CG or S|Ms forum, but a simple 4 x 11 piece of cardboard insulates the tumbler. As you are approaching 1st crack, put the cardboard in front of the tumbler. It rests right against the plastic shield. It deadens the sound of the beans sloshing in the tumbler and with the ear one foot to the south of the chaff filter, you can hear 1st crack.
Try it, it works.
I used the flap from a USPS flat rate box. Fits perfectly.
B|Java
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Had an excellent cup of the JBM last evening (72 hrs rest).
City plus as a result of this profile. 120V at the outlet, power off. Will be working out some Indo as well as high grown profiles around its structure:
374 thru 5 min
469 thru 7 min
380 thru 9 min
465 thru 14:05 (1st crack at 13:35)
452 till pull 16:45 (no second)
Nice flavor development. Chocolates, balanced, full and rich taste.
My Gene Cafe is off and running again (had to replace the heater) and I tried this profile on some Mexico Organic HG Oaxaca and it was really delicious - cinnamon sweet and very rich after only 2 days rest. Clearly better than any previous roast profiles I have done.
(My go-to default profile for these beans has been a simple 470 to 1C, dropped to 460 for the remainder of the roast).
Next, I roasted some Papua New Guinea Kimel A with BJ's profile with only a slight modification of raising the temp to 470 (rather than 465) until I reached 1C.
Again - some great results! Definitely an improvement over my past roasts- rich, smooth and very fruity.
Many thanks to BioldJava who's clearly on to something here.
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Big Daddy Gene.
Got this shot via email from James at Coffeeproject.com. He is on the floor at SCAA. Larger capacity, external cooling. Details to follow.
B|Java
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Big Daddy Gene.
Got this shot via email from James at Coffeeproject.com. He is on the floor at SCAA. Larger capacity, external cooling. Details to follow.
B|Java
Very interesting. I'm sure mass production of the machine itself is still in the preliminary stages, but did you get any hints or do you have a guess on the price point? The external cooling is the selling point for me. I may have to wait on purchasing that new Hottop I've been thinking about for a while now with this new Gene on the horizon....
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Big Daddy Gene.
Got this shot via email from James at Coffeeproject.com. He is on the floor at SCAA. Larger capacity, external cooling. Details to follow.
B|Java
Very interesting. I'm sure mass production of the machine itself is still in the preliminary stages, but did you get any hints or do you have a guess on the price point? The external cooling is the selling point for me. I may have to wait on purchasing that new Hottop I've been thinking about for a while now with this new Gene on the horizon....
Bah. Get a hottop, you know you want one.
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Very interesting. I'm sure mass production of the machine itself is still in the preliminary stages, but did you get any hints or do you have a guess on the price point? The external cooling is the selling point for me. I may have to wait on purchasing that new Hottop I've been thinking about for a while now with this new Gene on the horizon....
Finishes at just over 1 lb. Late summer is the projected street date. But then, sales reps are eternal optimists.
I am looking for my next roaster when the Gene gives up the ghost. I can handle the heater replacements (3rd one) but at some point she is going to give up the ghost. Sneaking $10s in the drawer, every now and then. Trying to nudge CFS to become the NAmerican agent.
Think d-r-u-m.
http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/quest-m3-buying-decision-t11763.html (http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/quest-m3-buying-decision-t11763.html)
(http://img.alibaba.com/photo/104398693/QUEST_M3_COFFEE_ROASTER.jpg)
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...Sneaking $10s in the drawer, every now and then. Trying to nudge CFS to become the NAmerican agent...
Are you saving for a Hottop, the "new" Gene or the Quest M3 you just mentioned? From what I've read, the Quest M3 is ~$1,000 w/shipping. Being that it's a new(er) roaster and it hasn't had much time to get used and abused by us coffee geeks to expose any potential operation/parts/customer service problems, the "cautious and careful" side of me still says "buy the Hottop (B Model) at ~$800.00 w/shipping". I will be watching closely to see how the new Gene is priced and when it will be actually on the shelf, ready to buy though....
EDIT: Our own Warrior372, mentioned the Quest M3 IN THIS THREAD (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=8973.msg137092#msg137092) a while back. The subsequent responses to his posts relatively sum up my feelings on it at this point in time as well. Dropping ~$1,000 for an electric roaster with a 300 gram (~9-10 oz.) capacity with no computer or profile control might end up being the deal breaker for me. In the end, once I save enough dough, I'll probably go straight to CFS and see what type of a deal I can get on one of his Hottop B models, but that's just my feelings as of today (which are obviously subject to change over time).... :P
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Are you saving for a Hottop, the "new" Gene or the Quest M3 you just mentioned? ...
Yes.
I am unsure of what is next but by the time I get the nickels together, there will be more voices in on the Quest and someone (hint, hint CFS) will be the distributor in NAmer. I really like the Gene but at the end of the day, it is an air roaster. That to me is its downfall and doesn't develop the body to the degree I am after. And yes, I am being nit-picky at this point.
B|Java
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Hints are noted. Hard to be a distributor of something in the US if it's not UL listed, and I don't see this product on that path.
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Let me first start off by saying this was roast #63, so I don't think I am an unexperienced noob.
But at the end of this roast, I did feel like an unexperienced noob.
While trying to determine how to clean the glass carafe of the Gene, I removed the center
metal vane with the swinging chaff deflector. I decided to I needed Cafiza to clean the stains
on the glass properly, replaced the metal vane, and went to the PC to order Cafiza.
Fast forward 3 days. I am roasting 8oz of Ethiopian Sidamo Maduro from Sweet Maria's, marking
down temps at 30 second intervals. The roast profile I was using for this bean was a hot Gene,
dump beans, set temp for 476dgf until FC, then back off to ~467dgf. At the 3:30 minute mark,
I was already at 435dgf, but I heard the clicking of the heater saying it was at requested temperature.
Seeing it was only at 435dgf, instead of 476dgf, I started to look for issues. Yep variac is working
properly, Kill-A-Watt is reading 121v. But heat coming out of the large chaff collector is not as hot as it
should be. A look inside the dirty Gene carafe (Cafiza has not arrived yet) shows huge amount of chaff clogging the out vent of the carafe. And the swinging chaff deflector is indeed swinging, just not over the chaff exit vent.
When I put the metal vane back into the glass carafe, I installed it incorectlye, so the swinging chaff deflector was not over the exit vent. On with the Ove Gloves, "E-Stop" the Gene, make necessary repair, and back on with the Gene to finish the roast. The repair took about 1 minute to diagnose, and ~4 minutes to repair. Instead of an expected FC of ~10 minutes, I had a FC of 16 minutes. Still haven't tried the beans yet, so maybe I was able to save the roast.
The chaff that was cleaned out of the carafe during the repair time, was wet from moisture that was escaping the bean, but not exiting the carafe. My initial fears of "oh crap, my Gene heater is failing since it won't go over 435dgf", quickly turned into "oh crap, what a friggin idiot I am".
So, in keeping with the thread title, a gentle reminder/tip to all Gene owners, make sure to orient the metal vane properly to allow the chaff deflector to swing over the carafe exit vent after removal of the metal vane for cleaning. :-[
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I am looking for some help on cleaning, and what everyone has used to clean the glass carafe.
I can purchase Simple Green at the local Home Depot, or I can purchase Cafiza from Amazon since
I am unable to find it locally. Have either of these two products worked for anyone in removing
a baked on brown oil film on the inside of the glass carafe? Is there another product that you have
used with success? Do I make a diluted solution with the product and let it sit for a few hours, then scrub with a nylon brush? It's getting hard to see the beans on one side of the carafe, so I need to get the
it cleaned. Thanks!
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Looking to get some feedback and comments on line power for the Gene.
I have 124V at the outlet, a VariAC with a killawatt hooked up to it. I have spoken to Tim Skales a few times, his recommendation was 109 volts at line level as he claims the Gene was optimized for that line voltage.
I have found 120 volts (line voltage) drops to 109 under load when heating- seems like the best compromise so far.
Any thoughts?
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his recommendation was 109 volts at line level as he claims the Gene was optimized for that line voltage....
Tim may say that but there is no way 109 is adequate voltage for me to roast with the Gene. My experience tells me differently. Roasts suffer once beginning voltage is -below 117-118. I set mine at 120 and go with that.
B|Java
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If you ran a test to see how long it takes to get to 482dgf with
only 109v, I am pretty sure you may not be able to get to the endpoint.
BV (before variac), I had a line voltage of 120-122v (dependant on what was
running on the circuit at that time), and the drop would take me 114v-116v.
The time to FC was so long that I feared I was baking rather then roasting.
I usually set the variac to a point that I can take a empty and cold Gene from
room temp (~72dgf) to 482dgf in ~6.5 to 7 minutes. IMO, faster is better,
but slower is not better.
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Rich
Are you saying that 122 is too low for you to start at?
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Rich
Are you saying that 122 is too low for you to start at?
Sorry for not seeing this sooner.
The short answer is Yes.
With my Gene plugged into the KAW, then into the variac, then into the wall outlet, and the Gene on, but not running/heating, I read between 120v-124v. The moment I start the heating cycle of the Gene, I see the line voltage drop to 114v-117v. I have not spent a lot time trying to isolate what other electrical devices are on the circuit drawing, OR, if there is anything on the circuit. I just know that when the heater of the Gene is drawing power (trying to reach a setpoint temp), the line voltage drops to a point that I do not feel I can roast as well as I should. That's why I now use a variac.
However, when the Gene reaches a setpoint, and the heater has cycled off, the KAW reading will be significantly higher then the starting line voltage of 120-124v, due to the fact that the variac is supplying additional voltage. During these brief moments that the Gene heater is cycling on and off, the KAW readings may go from 120v (heater on) to 128v (heater off). Trying to adjust this during a roast would be impossible as the heater is constantly cycling on/off after reaching setpoint. I read that normal 120v appliances should be able to handle +/- 5% of the line voltage without damaging the appliance. So 126volts (when the heater is off) should not be affecting the Gene. I sometimes am a volt of two above that threshold though. Hopefully this won't cause undue wear on the internal electrical components.
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Thanks for the reply Rich.
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Periodically the Gene doesn't come up to temp. Today, it kept stalling at 445. Talked with Tim Skaling and he encouraged a complete clean, particularly the fan. Tim said the heater has a thermocouple <?> and if the heater isn't getting enough air from the fan, it restrains/governs the heater.
I pulled the fan (you have to pull the heater first). Full of dust and gunk. Couldn't get enough of the gunk off so I ran it over to our auto mechanic. Few blasts of the air compressor -- still dirty. Then some blasts of brake cleaner (a liquid agent like fluids used in dry cleaning). More compressed air. Fan is good as new. Here is a link if you need visuals: http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-major-clean (http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-major-clean)
Used q-tips and shop vac. Clean as a whistle. Reassemble. Broke down the chaff collector; parts soaking in a weak solution (1:5, Simple Green: Water) over night. Hand wash. Reassemble.
Let's see if that does it. If it doesn't, half tempted to recycle the Gene and buy an SR500.
B|Java
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Periodically the Gene doesn't come up to temp. Today, it kept stalling at 445. Talked with Tim Skaling and he encouraged a complete clean, particularly the fan. Tim said the heater has a thermocouple <?> and if the heater isn't getting enough air from the fan, it restrains/governs the heater.
I pulled the fan (you have to pull the heater first). Full of dust and gunk. Couldn't get enough of the gunk off so I ran it over to our auto mechanic. Few blasts of the air compressor -- still dirty. Then some blasts of brake cleaner (a liquid agent like fluids used in dry cleaning). More compressed air. Fan is good as new....
B|Java
Well, that didn't work. A couple of good cycles and then wham, stalling and unable to climb past 445*. Then, 1.800.Call.Tim. Well, could be the fan ...
Loosen the screws that secure the fan to the chasis and the fan screws. Wiggle the fan out, unplugging it from the mother board. Now, new fan outlet will fit snugly into the heater intake. Screw back into place. Make sure you haven't realigned the gear wheels. Test by inserting the bean hopper into the gear assemblies.
OK, new one installed. 30 minutes. It is around a 5 minute job if you don't drop the micro-screws into the lower carriage area 58 zillion times. Tomorrow, buy a magnet at a hardware store and learn how to magnetize my screwdrivers. If I had a cuss jar, I could retire.
Or, it could be the...
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Exhaust sensor which sits in the throat of the left gear assembly. Of course no individual parts such as the exhaust sensor are replaceable so the whole gear assembly gets replaced. Straight forward until I have to snap off some plastic electrical wire bundling harnesses. A quick call to Peter and he suggests using some wire to harness them down and keep them out of the gear. Simple, but I hadn't seen that. Done. 'Nother 30 minutes as we once again play "Drop the tiny screen into nowheresville and see how long it takes to find it." Mercy.
The exhaust sensor (as I understand it) is on a closed loop back through the mother board, sending a signal to the heater. This synchronizes with a temperature band (7*) to turn the heat on and off. I bet 10 to one this is the bad part but just in case...
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let's replace the power board (my term). This sits (12 o'ocock) separate and apart from the mother board -- the AC and heater leads are running into it. Two screws hold it down. Pay attention to the order of the leads running into it, even if you have to label them. I gently used pliers with the AC lead as it didn't want to come off. Put leads back on, seating the board and remount with the two screws.
Make sure you have all the wires out of the way of the gear assemblies. Look again, using wire if needed to bundle them down and away from the moving gears as the gears are not sealed or encased.
Reassemble the unit, all 90 more micro screws. 'Bout that time, Czarina walks in the back door. I have my glasses off with my nose -- about three inches from the carriage trying to see, classical music blaring, and she says, "You look like Pinnochio's creator, Geppetto, sitting there." I worked up the biggest stink eye I could and then laughed.
OK, time for the trial. 121 volts at the wall. Plug it in, start the stop watch, and set it at 482. It makes it up and past 445, climbing for the 460 where it also has a tendency to konk out. 462 and climbing, all the way to 482 in 5:35. Bingo. Victory. Houston, we have a roaster.
Tim Skaling is a gem. I ordered the fan over the net -- he sent me an email, remembering our discussion. Said he tossed in the left gear assembly and the power board. Paid $15 for the fan. Bet he doesn't even charge me for the other parts.
B|Java
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Next time you have to do something like this, let's do it over here. You can
watch direct, whilst I have some fun.
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Glad you got it working again.... I'd hate to hear that any Yemen pooching was Gene's fault!
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whilst
Did you turn British again?
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Glad you got it working again.... I'd hate to hear that any Yemen pooching was Gene's fault!
There will be no pooching. Herr Schmdit did the honors -- wasn't sure when parts would come in, whether I could "heal" the Gene, and I like Yemens on about 7-10 days rest. He nailed all 7 samples yesterday and they will do him proud of the 5th.
BJava
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Glad to hear it's working.
Great pictorial and troubleshooting dialog.
As a Gene owner, and having tapped on Tim's expertise once already,
it is great to know what an incredible asset Tim is to us Gene owners.
Could you recreate the whole process while filming it. One of those "Flip" type
video camera's, and post the "tutorials" in this thread for possible later research? :)
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There will be no pooching. Herr Schmdit did the honors -- wasn't sure when parts would come in, whether I could "heal" the Gene, and I like Yemens on about 7-10 days rest. He nailed all 7 samples yesterday and they will do him proud of the 5th.
BJava
You are a wise old goat!
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There will be no pooching. Herr Schmdit did the honors -- wasn't sure when parts would come in, whether I could "heal" the Gene, and I like Yemens on about 7-10 days rest. He nailed all 7 samples yesterday and they will do him proud of the 5th.
BJava
You are a wise old goat!
Wise enough to put it on me. Now I have to scour some of the old threads to find the excuses OG used, just in case one of the roasts was poochy. ;)
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A larger capacity Gene has been rumored for two years. On two occasions, they had an alpha model on display at Coffeefest/SCAA. So where are their energies?
Bringing out a red model of the same 230 gram capacity. They don't get it.
(http://www.breworganic.com/images/products/detail/RedGene.jpg)
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A larger capacity Gene has been rumored for two years. On two occasions, they had an alpha model on display at Coffeefest/SCAA. So where are their energies?
Bringing out a red model of the same 230 gram capacity. They don't get it.
Amen!
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I couldn't resist the urge to buy a new toy today when I found this Gene on Craigslist for an awesome deal. So now I have another roaster in the line up I think the Behmor may be on its way out.
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Are these the bumpers I keep reading about?
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Are these the bumpers I keep reading about?
Yep.
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Congratulations, nice roaster!
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Congratulations, nice roaster!
Thank you!
As you may have noticed it does not have the larger chaff collector that comes standard now. I'm guessing the attachment that is on there now is the older style chaff collector. I didn't realize this until after the fact but consider the price I got I won't complain. I found a website that sell the newer one I'm wondering if it is worth buying?
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The large chaff collector makes it easy to duct the exhaust out a window, one of Gene's big strengths.
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Nice find! Keep your inventory of rubber bumpers
above 1 or 2 spares. They seem to break when you
don't have any more in the inventory!!
Tim Skaling at Fresh Beans Inc is the guy to know
when you need parts. Very helpful.
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As you may have noticed it does not have the larger chaff collector that comes standard now. I'm guessing the attachment that is on there now is the older style chaff collector. I didn't realize this until after the fact but consider the price I got I won't complain. I found a website that sell the newer one I'm wondering if it is worth buying?
As ECC pointed out, the larger chaff bin has an extender on it that is a perfect fit for an aluminum exhaust hose. Out the window it goes.
When (not if) your heater goes, it is a simple job. I have replaced mine 3 times in 6 years as I tend to overdo continuous, successive roasts.
B|Java
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Pre-heat Gene and let rumble around at 350* till unit is warm. Then hold button down till E stop occurs.
Dump beans in and turn to:
471* for low grown
474* for Brazils, Sumatrans
476* for high growns: CAmer, African, Yemens
Run at those temps. At 1:00 after first crack, turn down 3-4.* Then, play with profiles, ending 2:30, 2:45 and 3:00 minutes past the start of 1st crack. See which works better for which bean.
You are putting too much energy into the bean with 482.* Tom at SM's suggests 482* throughout the entire roast. I couldn't disagree more. Nuances will be driven out of the bean, or so my experience tells me. Experiment and see how it works for you.
B|Java
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Pull out your bugles, just in case.
After 6 years, my Gene is limping. Even with 45 minutes between roasts, with successive roasts, it has progressively more difficulty reaching and sustaining desired temps. Spent about 20 minutes talking with Tim Skaling at Freshbeans.
Tim suggests that it is either an ailing fan or motherboard going whacky (I have replaced both as well as heater over the years). I didn't understand Tim's reasoning for suggesting the fan but I have found him responsive, accurate, and knowledgeable about the Gene over the years. I have a fan on the way to me from Utah. If it is the motherboard, the unit is going in the basement and will be a 'parts machine,' and I will grab a new Gene until I have saved enough to pull the trigger on a US Roasters' 1 lb sampler. I am content for the interim with the Gene and find it perfect for my present demands. Retirement, next summer, is another discussion.
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I will keep your Gene in my prayers.
As for me, I am toying with the idea of making a Sonofresco my next, and
hopefully last home roaster. After much searching, I just feel it offers the
best value of larger capacity versus dollars spent. Losing the ability to profile
that I currently have with the Gene is the only reason I haven't made the jump yet.
Just ordered more rubber bumpers for the Gene from Tin S. Don't forget to
keep extra's in stock just in case...
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Pull out your bugles, just in case.
...
Grabbed a new Gene off ebay today for $450. Have a fan to put into the old model. Diminishes the US Roaster fund by same amount. Reasoning:
^ If older model lives on via new fan, I will rotate machines and run back to back roasts. Regardless, it isn't long for this planet.
^ New retirement home will come first -- once that is settled, will have a better sense of where and when the US Roaster sample roaster will go.
^ Will need a new back-up system even if I go the US Roaster route in 2013.
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Congrats Dave! Best of luck to you, and your roaster Gene, and your other roaster Gene!
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Great service from Tim Skaling at http://www.freshbeansinc.com (http://www.freshbeansinc.com). When I disassembled the old Gene to see what might be wrong (stalls repeatedly around 455*-464*), lo and behold, I see a nipped wire on the electrical harness (pic below). The wire can not be re-threaded and crimped back into its seating joint. It is a toss away arrangement. Hoping to have two Genes, and be able to roast b2b.
I called Tim on Monday from the office. Today, less than 48 hours later, I received the envelope with a new harness (it runs from the motherboard to the electrical controls), as well as the two plastic half moons that sit in the base (mine are cracked).
No charge.
Thanks Tim. Support like that needs to be recognized.
B|Java
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Great story and great support!
Well done to Tim.
(http://www.forumsextreme.com/images2/sFun_cheerleader2.gif)
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Dave's story about the great customer support Tim provides is not an an isolated instance. Tim S. has done the same for me a few times. He really does go over and above to provide great support for Gene Cafe owners. Thanks Tim.
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Old roaster, profile was 471*/465 or so 2.45 min after 1C initiated.
New roaster, to achieve the same time in roast (identical voltage and similar time), 455*/447 or so. What a difference, even as I achieve the same roast.
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How long of a rest period are you all giving your roaster between batches?
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"E" stop, pull and dump. Regular cooling back down to 140*. Rest an additional 10 minutes and go.
B|Java
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My brother is coming next week and I am going to ask for his help in designing and installing a venting sleeve in one of the 3 window panes I have in my basement casement window.
Now that I have a permanent set-up in the basement, I find less blow-back of smoke into the home as the dryer vent exit is higher than the machine when I roasted upstairs. I will take some pics once completed to show the set-up.
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Sounds good. Look forward to your ventilation setup.
:)
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Brother is in town. Watched me roast and then set up this venting system through the casement window and storm window. Louvered. Good to go.
Sent via phone with big, fat fingers.
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That looks like it took some effort! Very nice setup, I hope to do something similar with my sono before winter:)
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That looks like it took some effort! Very nice setup, I hope to do something similar with my sono before winter:)
He knocked it out in about 3 hours while I was bagging the Yemeni coffee.
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Brother is in town. Watched me roast and then set up this venting system through the casement window and storm window. Louvered. Good to go.
Sent via phone with big, fat fingers.
I'm thinking about buying a gene cafe soon because I'm getting tired of the popcorn popper. What size is that duct at the end where it reaches the gene cafe. Also, do you have any other exhaust fan or is it just the gene cafe to the duct to the window.
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That's 4" dryer duct, and it won't need a fan unless you have long runs, or a head wind.
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Nice. Thanks.
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Gene owners.
It appears that Tim Skiling is no longer the Gene Cafe importer. He no longer lists Gene Cafe parts on his website.
North American importing appears to be at http://batchcoffee.com/ (http://batchcoffee.com/). Let me confirm what parts he stocks and see if I can get a current price list.
B|Java
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EMail response was:
"Hi Dave,
The parts are no longer available wholesale. If an end user needs parts, they can contact us directly at support@batchcoffee.com
Soon our website with parts will also be available.
Best,
Derek"
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Hmm. Mine has not been able to get up to 480 for quite some time. Done everything I can think of: cleaned canisters, chaff collector, opened it up and cleaned the vent. Maybe I need to replace a board, which makes me nervous.
Guess I'll shoot this dude an email. Or ask Santa for a HT.
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Hmm. Mine has not been able to get up to 480 for quite some time. . .
I have never roasted with 480* on either machine.
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If I set it to 480, I'm lucky if it gets to 460.
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Issues.
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What charge/load you using?
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I use a variac, set at 120+. I don't run the laundry when I'm roasting. ;D Never roast more than 227g at once.
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Ouch. Try a mother board. (Oh, you already said that...) <grins>
I think I paid $14 plus shipping?
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Sending an email to the dude now.....
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I think I remember there was a problem with an exit temperature sensor that goes bad, and keeps your Gene from reaching max temp.
Mine is now acting up, after the first roast, I struggle to get the temp on the Gene to 472*. At about 460*, the heater begins to turn
on and off every 15-20 seconds as though it has reached the desired temp. Good Luck.
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So I heard back:
Sorry to hear you are having problems with your Gene Cafe. It sound like a heating element has failed. As of September 2013, for liability reasons, we are no longer allowed to resell internal roaster parts. All repairs on internal parts need to be performed by Batch Coffee technicians. Our flat charge to replace the heating element is $89.00 plus freight.
We would be happy to service your roaster if you ship it to the following address;
etc, etc.....
Grrrrrrrr.....decisions, decisions. I've had the GC for almost a year, and have put less than 200 roasts through it. Didn't expect to be putting another $100 into it this soon.
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So I heard back:
Sorry to hear you are having problems with your Gene Cafe. It sound like a heating element has failed. As of September 2013, for liability reasons, we are no longer allowed to resell internal roaster parts..
I will be opting out of the Gene based on this when my unit/s fail. I will probably use one for a parts machine and keep one limping.
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So, where's a good place to buy a HT? :)
Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk HD
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Ouch, very sad to hear about this. Losing Tim Skaling as a resource and now the ability
to remedy our own Gene issues, well I am now going to be in search of new roaster as well.
The real shame of it is my Gene has started to act up (see above), so I will be keeping my fingers crossed
until something reasonable comes along. Maybe a used Behmor until a more cost effective and practical
solution for roasting 1# loads.
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So, I didn't roast for a week, and ordered myself a HT. Fired up the GC yesterday, because I needed to roast some JBM for a gift, and wouldn't you know it....476? No problem!
Guess I've been pushing the little guy too hard. Will clean out the chaff collector again, and try to keep it happy.
I've got a friend I loaned my Behmor to, who now want to try the GC. He's doing pretty well without putting any money into a roaster. ;D
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That's 4" dryer duct, and it won't need a fan unless you have long runs, or a head wind.
I bought the 4" duct and it's kind of big. I don't know if its because I have a newer model that I just bought recently or what but I think the 3" duct is the correct size.
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3" is correct size.
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Here is a cheap and simple fix to get that 4" to work. I chose to go this option because I have 4" dryer hose laying around every job site. I can replace it frequently when it starts to stink. I have noticed my Gene having trouble hitting certain temps at times. It just seems to be completely sporadic. I will do one roast, with stable voltage, and it will not ramp up at its normal speed. I will do a roast after that and everything will work as normal. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when it does this. Sometimes it is on the first roast of the session, sometimes it is on the third or fourth roast. I did 14 roasts over the weekend and the Gene worked flawlessly. I am disappointed to hear about the issue with parts because I really love this roaster.
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...I have noticed my Gene having trouble hitting certain temps at times. It just seems to be completely sporadic. I will do one roast, with stable voltage, and it will not ramp up at its normal speed....
As someone who vents outside, I often wonder if some of this is downdraft from the cold. I see the greatest temp variation AFTER I turn the thermostat down 1 minute after start of 1C. It could be the mere response of over-reacting to the turndown.
B|Java
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You might be onto something Dave. I have noticed this issue a lot less after we moved. I thought it was because I was maybe working off a direct electrical line but the vent window is also in a much more sheltered area than our previous home.
I always thought that the Gene would be a steppingstone in my progression through roasters. Since getting it I found no reason to upgrade. The day I do upgrade, I can guarantee it will to be to a roaster that vents at least as well as the Gene does. I can't believe I used to smoke up my kitchen the way I did.
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I had a note from SweetMaria's indicating a price increase expected next week. If you are going to buy, now is the time to pull the plug at $515. Increases coming.
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I went to order a replacement and Sweet's Genes are at $585 now. Batch's are a well. In addition Batch raised the price on their refurb units $495. They were $400 last week and the front-runner for my roaster-down solution. I am not desperate enough to pull the Behmor down from the attic and start smoking the new house out. I found Genes at Roastmasters for $515 still.
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The heater on my 2nd Gene is going. Usual temps are more difficult to achieve and hold, even though I have lowered the roast to 200grams. Now using the temp settings that I use on the older model.
Asked my brother about aging heating elements and inefficiencies. Does a heating element lose its efficiency?
"Yes, the older most elements become, the less they are able to inhibit the voltage that is provided. Efficiency drops." Ahah! That is why my older one takes higher settings to achieve the same results.
Come quickly, USRC.
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My new gene does not run as hot as the old one did, at least before it died. Out of the box, and at the same voltage, I am having a hard time hitting the temps I want as fast as I want. I am running almost all roast at full power which I rarely did with my older Gene.
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Last night I disassembled the chaff filter and soaked overnight in a bucket of 6t of Cafiza and water. Cleaned up very easily.
I empty the chaff filter after each roast but I was overdue for a thorough cleaning. Thought it might help with the airflow but it really wasn't that dirty. 5 minutes and it is reassembled.
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Yo, Gene folk. Batch Coffee changed positions and now offers parts without having to ship in the roaster for their replacement.
Just grabbed a heater for when, not if, the next heater blows.
http://www.batchcoffee.com/collections/genecaferoasterparts (http://www.batchcoffee.com/collections/genecaferoasterparts)
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Pre-heat Gene and let rumble around at 350* till unit is warm. Then hold button down till E stop occurs.
Dump beans in and turn to:
471* for low grown
474* for Brazils, Sumatrans
476* for high growns: CAmer, African, Yemens
Run at those temps. At 1:00 after first crack, turn down 3-4.* Then, play with profiles, ending 2:30, 2:45 and 3:00 minutes past the start of 1st crack. See which works better for which bean.
You are putting too much energy into the bean with 482.* Tom at SM's suggests 482* throughout the entire roast. I couldn't disagree more. Nuances will be driven out of the bean, or so my experience tells me. Experiment and see how it works for you.
B|Java
B|Java, still use the same profiles?
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Pre-heat Gene and let rumble around at 350* till unit is warm. Then hold button down till E stop occurs.
Dump beans in and turn to:
471* for low grown
474* for Brazils, Sumatrans
476* for high growns: CAmer, African, Yemens
Run at those temps. At 1:00 after first crack, turn down 3-4.* Then, play with profiles, ending 2:30, 2:45 and 3:00 minutes past the start of 1st crack. See which works better for which bean.
You are putting too much energy into the bean with 482.* Tom at SM's suggests 482* throughout the entire roast. I couldn't disagree more. Nuances will be driven out of the bean, or so my experience tells me. Experiment and see how it works for you.
B|Java
B|Java, still use the same profiles?
No, those came from my first unit which delivered less heat at the same reported temp than the unit I am using now.
I use these in the new unit (I believe the manufacturer improved the heater at some point):
455* for low grown, Kona/Caribbean
458* for Brazils, Sumatrans
460* for high growns: CAmer, African, Yemens
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Run at those temps. At 1:00 after first crack, turn down 3-4.* Then, play with profiles, ending 2:30, 2:45 and 3:00 minutes past the start of 1st crack. See which works better for which bean.
B|Java
What about those? Are you still in the same path?
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Run at those temps. At 1:00 after first crack, turn down 3-4.* Then, play with profiles, ending 2:30, 2:45 and 3:00 minutes past the start of 1st crack. See which works better for which bean.
B|Java
What about those? Are you still in the same path?
No. With the improved heater, I generally pull at 2:15 (city plus) after the start of first crack (unless the bean is telling me something else) and tweak my roasts from there.
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So you don't reduce the temp at 1:00 after first crack. Am I correct?
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So I dropped the roasting chamber and the glass broke. Boo. I went to batch and it was sold out. Any other alternatives?
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Another problem. My chamber somehow got jammed when it was roasting and now its misaligned and of course can't fit the chamber. Any idea what to do?
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Another problem. My chamber somehow got jammed when it was roasting and now its misaligned and of course can't fit the chamber. Any idea what to do?
You may disassemble GC and assemble again step by step. It may help.