Author Topic: Have you mastered the espresso machine variables?  (Read 9233 times)

Offline staylor

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2011, 09:58:40 AM »
Wow, that's gotta be the most balanced and well written reply I've ever seen from you Tex. And I'm not trying to be an ass. Gotta say I agree with your overall presentation.

Though I'm not sure anyone can take a Krups steam toy and produce drinkable shots, certainly not to the full extent of the beans potential. But I guess it all comes down to the Krups-owners understanding of what espresso should taste like and if they've ever explored the full spectrum of espresso possibilities. If they've never tasted good shots they might believe that the shots they pull at home are good - and ultimately that's all that matters... I guess.

Tex

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2011, 10:08:28 AM »
Wow, that's gotta be the most balanced and well written reply I've ever seen from you Tex. And I'm not trying to be an ass. Gotta say I agree with your overall presentation.

Though I'm not sure anyone can take a Krups steam toy and produce drinkable shots, certainly not to the full extent of the beans potential. But I guess it all comes down to the Krups-owners understanding of what espresso should taste like and if they've ever explored the full spectrum of espresso possibilities. If they've never tasted good shots they might believe that the shots they pull at home are good - and ultimately that's all that matters... I guess.

We seem to diverge on our definition of a good shot? To me a good shot is the minimum starting point, a drinkable but not necessarily a great shot. In other words, some of the nuances that the bean is capable of may be missing, but the shot is good enough to drink.

A quality espresso shot on the other hand is full of flavor and has extracted the best the bean has to offer.

Good shot vs quality shot? I'd drink either, but would aim for the latter.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 10:33:09 AM by Tex »

Tex

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2011, 10:20:50 AM »
Wow, that's gotta be the most balanced and well written reply I've ever seen from you Tex. And I'm not trying to be an ass. Gotta say I agree with your overall presentation.

Though I'm not sure anyone can take a Krups steam toy and produce drinkable shots, certainly not to the full extent of the beans potential. But I guess it all comes down to the Krups-owners understanding of what espresso should taste like and if they've ever explored the full spectrum of espresso possibilities. If they've never tasted good shots they might believe that the shots they pull at home are good - and ultimately that's all that matters... I guess.

Yeah, I corrected that to read coffee instead of espresso shots. Taste & experience are the key elements to making ever better shots; especially given that most noobs experience espresso at their local coffee shop or Starbuck's - hardly places where one would expect to learn anything about what quality espresso tastes like.

For most folks it becomes a matter of experience and most shots will be in the so-so to good category, but once in a while a quality shot will accidentally happen and their taste buds will get a wake up call. That random shot of coffee nirvana often spurs the home barista to experiment with pressure, temp, dosing, and distribution in search of that elusive quality shot of espresso.

That's when people like you should step in to help them understand the finer points of espresso. And that's great, because while I can get them to the first level of quality espresso, I just don't have the time or inclination to devote myself to getting them to the next level.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 10:36:26 AM by Tex »

Offline staylor

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2011, 11:35:40 AM »
You must have me confused with someone else. I don't really consider myself an espresso 'next level' kinda guy, you could probably teach someone just as much as I could... if you wanted to. I don't think there's a magical formula to pulling good shots, things that helped me improve my ability to me sort out the espresso wheat from the chaff are:

1) Tasting espresso in a boatload of retail locations where they imprinted their styles, techniques and interpretation of what espresso 'should be' into the cup.

2) Remaining aware of what the forward thinkers are pondering in regards to espresso advancement.

3) Keeping an open mind in regards to my own technique and results.

4) Being a mad scientist with a lot of SO shots and then playing even more with blending.

5) Having the chance to work with some talented characters.

6) Other things I'm too lazy to think about and type out.

I believe the key to helping advance someone's espresso abilities is through careful explanation/guidance down the path without being overly specific and stating absolutes. Everyone develops their own path, I'm not trying to force them down mine and that's why I prefer generalities for a lot of espresso discussion. Generalities allow for personal exploration, some of my 'coolest espresso theories' have produced some of my worst shots but every once in a while I get a step change in improvement. My espresso isn't earth shattering great, it's still got improvement potential, but every year it tends to get better - or at least better understood. I suspect you've observed the same with your own espresso.

Offline peter

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2011, 11:42:40 AM »
6) Other things I'm too lazy to think about and type out.

Time for a few more shots then.   :angel:
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

Offline staylor

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2011, 12:08:33 PM »
6) Other things I'm too lazy to think about and type out.

Time for a few more shots then.   :angel:

Haha, yeah probably. I pulled two shots of the Koke this morning, each one from a different batch roasted three days ago with different roast profiles. Neither one was ready yet (but almost). For the third shot I did a 50/50 blend with the Koke and a more mature Amaro Gayo and the shot was fantastic, so good that I've been thinking about it for the last few hours. Maybe your post is enough to push me over the edge and grab another one. ;-)

Offline staylor

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2011, 01:31:39 PM »
Killer in a 50/50 split in small milk.

Offline John F

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2011, 02:13:20 PM »
Straight out of the box... Hahaha!

 You crack me up sometimes Peter.
 ;D

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Offline peter

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2011, 02:19:15 PM »
Straight out of the box... Hahaha!

 You crack me up sometimes Peter.
 ;D




I wouldn't sh*t you JohnF; that's why I bought a VII, so that those two variables would be taken out of my iffy equation.   8)


OK, Tex; that was your cue to jump back in here and do some fanning of the flames.   ;D

Self-portrait =
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 02:22:49 PM by peter »
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

Tex

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2011, 02:25:28 PM »
Straight out of the box... Hahaha!

 You crack me up sometimes Peter.
 ;D




I wouldn't sh*t you JohnF; that's why I bought a VII, so that those two variables would be taken out of my iffy equation.   8)


OK, Tex; that was your cue to jump back in here and do some fanning of the flames.   ;D

Self-portrait =


Nah, with all the cow patties you're tossing around the fire is hot enough.

Offline John F

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2011, 02:25:59 PM »
I know..

The phrasing of the topic and reply just make me laugh is all.

 Yes..purchasing a temp stable machine is a big help in full mastery of temp stability..


"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

Offline staylor

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2011, 02:38:48 PM »
Truly classic.

Offline John F

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2011, 02:45:43 PM »
I am laughing....
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

Offline staylor

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2011, 02:48:08 PM »
I've been laughing since Peter first posted it up. It's just getting funnier by the minute.

Offline grinderz

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Re: Have you mastered the machine variables?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2011, 04:17:46 PM »
 :angel: >:D
var elvisLives = Math.PI > 4 ? "Yep" : "Nope";