Compak K3 to K10 upgrade?

[GC7]

I would like the learned advice of this group as to the benefits of upgrading my espresso grinder from a Compak K3 touch to a Compak K10 pro. I am getting the itch to see if I can improve my espresso and Sharon has plans to purchase a sewing machine that will cost almost as much as a LM GS3  .  Life is short and there are only so many embroidered shirts or logos I can get out of a sewing machine.

I have been very pleased with the results from my K3 for almost five years now. I almost always single dose weighing before and sometimes compulsively after grinding. I get almost no retention of coffee from the K3 after cleaning the chute before fixing each shot and the taste to me is as good as anything. The grinder has been rock solid and it was recommended to me over other products in its price range by Mary at Chris Coffee. I have read pretty much everything I can on high end espresso grinders and the word on the street seems to be that the K10 as good as it gets and is a very clear step up in quality and consistency from the K3. It will probably be the last grinder I will ever need for any espresso machine I might long to buy – current model is a QM Anita HX. Is it worth the trouble to upgrade and learn a new toy for a hack taster like me?

Thanks – there could be a K3 available cheap if I buy this.

[ScareYourPassenger]

Going from a hybrid to a conical was a pretty big difference for me. I went from adjusting the grind daily to once a week!

Also, a lot more nuances to the flavors and actually seemed a bit brighter..

Go for it!

[GC7]

SYP

Do you single dose with the K10?
How is the retention?
Did you mod the doser as described by many?
Is it easy to clean?

I don't have to change the grind setting on the K3 very often with the same batch of coffee. I clean the chute of almost all coffee pulsing a couple of times and using my finger all the wayup to the burrs. The chamber fits my shop vac hose almost perfectly so that gets cleaned easy too. Hopefully a K10 will be as easy.

[ScareYourPassenger]

I can only comment on conical burrs. I don't have a k10.

Peter has one from what I remember.

My pharos with voodoodady mods is super easy to clean!

[mp]

I believe Peter and Warrior have a K10 ... one or both may be chiming here shortly.

 

[peter]

SYP

Do you single dose with the K10?
How is the retention?
Did you mod the doser as described by many?
Is it easy to clean? c

If the courses were open in WI, I'd say come play a round and play w/ my K10.

-I always single dose. 
-Retention is almost nil, since I leave the grind chamber alone and there's no more nooks and crannies for the coffee to be retained.
-I modded the chute leading into the doser, but not the doser itself; it sweeps cleanly enough for me.  And I use a cut-down rubber spatula to bump up against the sweeper arms while the grinder is on, to clean out the chute.
-I maybe shouldn't admit it, but I never clean mine.  My theory is that whatever stale coffee there is in its innards will stay there and not co-mingle w/ the fresh beans being ground.

I went from a Macap M4, which may be close to the K3, and noticed more open-ness, nuance and detail in the shots.  Also, I don't have any pre-shot rituals, other than a couple taps to settle the coffee and a couple swipes to level it; no WDT or other helpers, and no channeling/spritzers.

Where have you looked, and what sort of prices are you seeing for the K10?


I like things w/ motors, but he HG-1 intrigues me.  Have you considered that?

[expy98]

Can't comment on a K10 as I don't have one but the Pharos has the same exact burrs as the K10, you just
have to crank it manually. 

I have 2 Pharoses, be more than happy to loan you one, just pay for the shipping charges.  It's not a K10
but the grind should be the same.

Every 6 months or so I take the Pharos apart to clean and re-set the grind setting and there it stays
til the next cleaning.  And I change beans every 3 days...

But I can't imagine you not liking the K10...

[GC7]

Thanks Peter

That's the kind of information I want and from someone I trust 

I have my obsessive compulsive coffee rituals including WDT but feel the same waay about nooks and crannies and leaving them be inside the grinder. The MACAP is as close to the K3 as I have read so clear improvement would be nice.

I have not priced anything yet but assume I can get it for significantly less then the list $1465.75 and then I will get something selling the K3.

I have not considered a hand grinder. I kind of like motorized toys - Right now I have gassed up the snow blower awaiting the big storm tomorrow. Using a shovel isn't a happy option and while not quite the same I feel sort of that way with a hand grinder. I'm sure the Pharos and new HG are great at what they do and will produce a high quality grind but it isn't on my personal list.

[GC7]

Can't comment on a K10 as I don't have one but the Pharos has the same exact burrs as the K10, you just
have to crank it manually. 

I have 2 Pharoses, be more than happy to loan you one, just pay for the shipping charges.  It's not a K10
but the grind should be the same.

Every 6 months or so I take the Pharos apart to clean and re-set the grind setting and there it stays
til the next cleaning.  And I change beans every 3 days...

But I can't imagine you not liking the K10...

Thanks so much expy - I may take you up on that to see if the conical grind quality is something my taste buds can distinguish.

[az erik]

I went from a K6 to a k10 and back to the k6 due to the extra $ not making it to my cup for one reason or another, it was better but not 'WOW!" in the cup. I ended up selling my 10 to fund a S1 Vivaldi, which in turn wouldn't have benefited from the 10. I modded both my k6 and k10 dosers but would still rather no doser at all. I use a metal spatuala to 'sweep' the chute, which appears to retain about the same amount of grinds.

The k3 is very much like the k6 in that it holds 'a ton' inside the grinding area. That little area outside the burrs but is missed by the bars that do the sweeping to the chute. You know the 2 to4 g's of ground cfffe flung up inside the burr carriers. The K10 doesn't appear to retain more than about .5g (estimating as I only used mine for about a month, cleaned it and sold it so I'm going off memory here).

I always single dosed as well. Swept the chute on the 10 and 6 the same way, leaving whatever was hard to get.

My theory is that whatever stale coffee there is in its innards will stay there and not co-mingle w/ the fresh beans being ground.

Ditto to this, but I do venture into this realm with my 6 about every other month, mainly due to having to grind decaf for my wife.

If your k3 is doserless I'd be interested.

[GC7]

Thanks Erik-

Not sure why you think the Vivaldi would not benefit from a K10 - It's one of the better machines out htere from what I read.

My K3 is the touch model - doserless and able to deliver a preset timed dose with a touch of the portafilter lever. That feature works nicely when I don't single dose. I have the fingerguards removed and I can get virtually all of the coffee out of the chute with two or three pulses and using a small spatula tool and my finger (at your own risk  ). I hope the K10 will be as good and sounds like it will if I get it.

I assume you might want the K3 for decafe - It would work well at that. I will contact you with the GCBC discount if I get the K10.

[az erik]

From what I understood the S1's temp ramp, or lack there of, wasn't going to get every bit of life out of the shot. My Expobar would have but due to my wife being unable to think about flushing, locking, counting, pulling, stopping. I opted for a DB, hence the S1. As it's shot temp profile doesn't deviate from the set temp other than cooling a bit at the end of a lungo I dropped the K10 in favor of ease. Now I pre-meassure my wifes shots for her incase she wants to try her hand. The k10 was quieter for sure, that I truely miss, and the lack of grind retention. I just wasn't feeling a $1200 upgrade from my K6 with a set of new burrs. Nothing at all wrong with the grinder, just didn't taste that much of an upgrade.

Also keep in mind the k3 is 58mm burrs and the 6 is 64mm. Rotational speed blah blah, it might be an upgrade to a SJ or K6 that ups the cup. The k10 is a big step up and not many places to go from there :

[peter]

The k10 is a big step up and not many places to go from there :

That's one reason I went w/ it, knowing that it would be a long time before the upgraditis virus got me.

[mp]

The k10 is a big step up and not many places to go from there :

That's one reason I went w/ it, knowing that it would be a long time before the upgraditis virus got me.

You've gotten a good inoculation to prevent that.

 

[juker]

...
 My theory is that whatever stale coffee there is in its innards will stay there and not co-mingle w/ the fresh beans being ground.
...

Peter,
I read a lot of statements about ‘near zero retention’ of large grinders.
At the same time everyone notices ‘big difference’ when upgrading to big conicals.
My take about these two, and I might be completely wrong here:
1. Retention
Clean-up your grinder by removing burr set and brushing all nooks and crannies including burrs (read -Brand new grinder).  Weight 50g of beans and grind them all (with bumping, brushing or whatever is your ritual). Weight the output. The difference IS grinder’s retention.
2. ‘Big difference’
After performing above mentioned, dial-in your grinder and pull a shot of the same coffee you had last time. I can bet money that you’ll experience déjà vu of the ‘big difference’ you had when first used your K-10.
By performing that you can validate your theory for yourself. Let your taste buds be the judge.
Methinks that the problem is not only in nooks and crannies but also burrs being coated with rancid oils (urnex grindz is supposed to wipe burrs – easy to test).
HG One is perfect for me – taking out both burrs for cleaning is a matter of unscrewing 4 screws (less than a minute).