Author Topic: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks  (Read 28239 times)

DrJim

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2009, 01:51:30 AM »
OK - here's my 'umble contribution to the collective Gene Cafe wisdom - as a very early GC adapter, I've suffered through most of the issues mentioned in the other posts, and even managed to burn one up in a genuine chaff fire (a plastic grocery bag got sucked across the intake vent just as the roast hit 470 degrees and phone rang in the next room.) Yeah, the cats exiting the house at War Emergency Flank Speed, the neighbors pounding on the door, and the smoke billowing out of the kitchen, were clues that something had gone Dreadfully Wrong.

Our current roasting setup outputs through an extended chaff collector feeding 8 feet of 3-inch flexible dryer hose led to a 3HP shop vacuum filled about half full of wood shavings and controlled by a Variac, the vac is then vented to the outside using its 2.5 inch hose. The wood shavings in the shop vac significantly reduce smoke, somewhat lower the exhaust temperatures, and provide enough back pressure that the GC comes up to temperature more quickly.

Slightly restricting the roaster's airflow allows me to use the shop vac to effectively control temperatures throughout the roast, eliminates the need to preheat, and permits bean loads of 250 grams.

As the roast begins, I set the Variac to around 30VAC, just enough for the vac to tick over and give some airflow through the GC's chamber. In about 4.5 minutes, or at an indicated 325-350 F, I kick the Variac to 45-50VAC - enough to give visable airflow in the chamber - and keep using the Variac to control the indicated temperatures between 435-455 F for roughly 10-12 minutes. Once the beans have gone through first crack, and present a nicely plump and slightly oily surface, I raise the Variac to around 75-80VAC and try to keep enough air flowing through the bean mass that second crack would be delayed out 3-4 minutes - I try to maintain 455-465 F, but accept any temperature over 450 and less than 470 as OK. The idea being to throughly heat and carmelize the beans, keeping them at the second crack threshold, while bleeding off any exothermic heat.

When I judge the roast done, I hit the GC's red button to start cooling, and wrench the Variac over to 140VAC, the poor shop vac howls like a gazillion mother-in-laws getting goosed, but it pulls the bean temps down at well over 100 F/minute, which is about 3-4 times faster than an unboosted GC cools.

Cheers

Jim

BoldJava

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2009, 04:48:01 PM »
Gene lives.  Two stripped screws where the screws were buried in a sealing silicon.  Quick trip to hardware store, one misalignment in reassembling, and voila.

Here is to 3 more years.

B|Java

Well, Gene lives again, 5:20 minutes to max heat.  Let's hope it lasts more than 3 months this time.  I think I have learned my lesson about roasting back-to-back mercilessly on it.

B|Java

BoldJava

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2009, 04:52:04 PM »
OK - here's my 'umble contribution to the collective Gene Cafe wisdom....Our current roasting setup outputs through an extended chaff collector feeding 8 feet of 3-inch flexible dryer hose led to a 3HP shop vacuum filled about half full of wood shavings and controlled by a Variac, the vac is then vented to the outside using its 2.5 inch hose. The wood shavings in the shop vac significantly reduce smoke, somewhat lower the exhaust temperatures, and provide enough back pressure that the GC comes up to temperature more quickly.

Slightly restricting the roaster's airflow allows me to use the shop vac to effectively control temperatures throughout the roast, eliminates the need to preheat, and permits bean loads of 250 grams.

As the roast begins, I set the Variac to around 30VAC, just enough for the vac to tick over and give some airflow through the GC's chamber. In about 4.5 minutes, or at an indicated 325-350 F, I kick the Variac to ...

Phew, I certainly appreciate the way you are managing your roasts, though I don't have a clue how you managed the mechanics, bean chemistry, or the heat physics involved.  It is a 'leap of faith' for me.  I call your system with the Gene the Kierkegaard Method.

B|PlugnPlay
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 04:54:32 PM by BoldJava »

DrJim

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Re: Gene Café Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2009, 12:47:32 PM »

Phew, I certainly appreciate the way you are managing your roasts, though I don't have a clue how you managed the mechanics, bean chemistry, or the heat physics involved.  It is a 'leap of faith' for me.  I call your system with the Gene the Kierkegaard Method.



Sorry - I wasn't trying to be mystical or unclear, but given the known vagueness of the Gene Café's temperature sensors I think that trying to be 'precise' is misleading, or at least somewhat optimistic.

What I think is important is that, given the Gene's somewhat underpowered heating element, the best way I've found to achieve reasonably repeatable roasting profiles is to attack the problem by aggressively managing the airflow through the roaster - something which a large shop vacuum on a Variac does quite well.

Just to clear up any confusion, I'm using the large GC chaff collector:



A 3" dryer hose feeds from the collector's top vent to a shop vac on the floor, and the vac exhausts through a 2 1/2" hose run outside under the garage door.

While this lash up is very good for controlling the airflow through the roaster, it still doesn't address the underlying issue that the GC's heating element is somewhat marginal, especially for large beans like Monsooned Malabar or Mysore Nuggets which tend to get baked, not roasted.

I'm currently experimenting with a technique that some very large automated commercial roasters use - which is to pre-heat the incoming air in a plenum chamber before it enters the roaster. Since the GC draws its fresh air from a vent in the lower right front corner, it's a simple matter to construct a wooden plenum chamber 15" wide, 5" deep, and 4" high with an open top on which the Gene Café sits - a 1 1/2" hole on one edge of the chamber neatly fits my original roasting heat gun, which provides enough calories to raise the air temperature inside the plenum to 150-170 degrees in under a minute.

I'm still developing and refining this new process, but essentially I preheat the plenum to about 150 degrees, begin the roast, and continue to preheat until the beans mass begins to change color (3-4 minutes, roughly 375-400 degrees ), cut off the preheat, and allow the GC to control the roast until just after ST crack. At which point I turn preheat back on and use the shop vac to control the temperature until I reach the desired roast level.

A word of caution - if you want to try this for yourself, be aware that the GC's fan does NOT appear to be molded from high-temperature plastic, so I'm being VERY careful not to allow the plenum temps to exceed 200 degrees.

Cheers

Jim

« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 12:50:18 PM by DrJim »

donfo

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2009, 04:34:31 PM »
YIKES ..... Just when things were going great, wham there goes the heating element. I've been very happy with my GC. Can someone tell me who to contact (I can't find my info that came with the machine ) Sounds like they have great service. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Don

BoldJava

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2009, 04:43:59 PM »
YIKES ..... Just when things were going great, wham there goes the heating element. I've been very happy with my GC. Can someone tell me who to contact (I can't find my info that came with the machine ) Sounds like they have great service. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Don


Sure, Tim Skaling.  He is very responsive.  He just got a new shipment of heaters from Korea.

http://www.freshbeansinc.com/_/Store-Products.html

B|Java
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 06:00:28 PM by BoldJava »

donfo

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2009, 04:57:30 PM »
Thanks BJ. I'll get in touch with him.

Don

donfo

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2009, 05:45:13 PM »
Well after contacting Tim It was suggested that I give the machine a good cleaning. Worked like a charm after that. I didn't realize that the chaff collector would get so dirty. Good habit to get into. Maybe there's a few more good years left in "Gene" after all.

Don

BoldJava

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2009, 06:47:53 PM »
Buttwhiskers is assisting me on improving my bean profiling.  I am attempting to keep a bean in the caramelization phase (350-370) for a longer period (double my present approach).  This is a struggle as the temp showing on the Gene is merely a reflection of temp of air at external vent.  We have no measurement of bean mass.

I had been running a profile that B|W estimates was giving me just a 1.5 minute stretch in that temp zone that sweetens the bean.  He made suggestions.  I employed them to about 5 different roasts, tweaking here and cranking there.  The profile below worked extremely well with the JBM (as a island grown, I treat it as low grown, even though elevation is 3500+ plus).

Old Island Profile (1.5 min caramelization)
360 for 6 min
464 until 1C begins plus :45
450 until just before 2c (~3 min after 1C begins)

New Island Profile 119V at the wall
390 for 4:50
469 thru 9:30
448 thru start of 1C (13:15)
464 from 13:15 until 14:15 (in subsequent roasts, I am going to tweak by shortening  this 60-second window and do some comparison cuppings.  This length of time could account for some of the heightened depth of the JBM in the cup)
452 until pull and external cool (16:05)
This gave me a city ++ and I noted a much sweeter bean

I will be working and tweaking (adjusting for higher grown) but this will be a basic framework for a leaping off point.

Thanks a ton B|W.  Lots to learn, much to enjoy.

B|Java

Edit, 12/3.  Similar profile but a bit higher temps did a very nice, sweet roast on the Elida Estates.  
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 03:03:35 AM by BoldJava »

donfo

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2009, 10:08:25 AM »
448 thru start of 1C (13:15)
464 from 13:15 until 14:15 (in subsequent roasts, I am going to tweak by shortening  this 60-second window and do some comparison cuppings.  This length of time could account for some of the heightened depth of the JBM in the cup)
452 until pull and external cool (16:05)
This gave me a city ++ and I noted a much sweeter bean

BJ..... Am I understanding this right. If your 1C is starting at 13:15, you then RAISE the temp to 464 for about a min. Followed by a drop in temp to 452 for about 2 min., then cool. I was always under the impression that we should drop the temp a bit after 1C gets started, to develop some sweetness. Have you any updates on this profile with other beans? I am going to give this go with some Mexican Oaxaca that I have.

Don

BoldJava

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2009, 10:38:39 AM »

BJ..... Am I understanding this right. If your 1C is starting at 13:15, you then RAISE the temp to 464 for about a min. Followed by a drop in temp to 452 for about 2 min., then cool. I was always under the impression that we should drop the temp a bit after 1C gets started, to develop some sweetness. Have you any updates on this profile with other beans? I am going to give this go with some Mexican Oaxaca that I have.

Don

Don, you understand correctly.  The Gene doesn't give a bean mass temp.  Given the open, tumbling nature of the hopper, I don't believe we are adding that much heat but rather sustaining the temp for 1st crack.

I tweaked last night again.  I will post some profiles once I have found the profiling that gives good caramelization (bean mass is at 350-370)  That is what I am after.  Meantime, I am just a-tweaking (that doesn't sound good - whoops).

B|Java

draagoth

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2009, 11:05:14 AM »
1st crack.

I tweaked last night again.  That is what I am after.  Meantime, I am just a-tweaking (that doesn't sound good - whoops).

B|Java

Ohhh Nooo....Sounds like B|Java is back on the hard stuff :o   LOL

All this Gene talk makes me want to get mine fired up.

Day off + Gene Cafe x Huge stash = Christmas Gifts

Rob :D


donfo

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2009, 01:16:16 PM »
BJ, you are talking about temps that are given by the read-out on the Gene and not temps taken at the back end with a thermometer, correct. I just did a Sumatra using your profile and I think I might have to add a few degrees. With this batch it was hard to hear all the way through 1C. Will give this a sampling in a couple of days.

Don

BoldJava

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2009, 01:38:38 PM »
BJ, you are talking about temps that are given by the read-out on the Gene and not temps taken at the back end with a thermometer, correct. I just did a Sumatra using your profile and I think I might have to add a few degrees. With this batch it was hard to hear all the way through 1C. Will give this a sampling in a couple of days.

Don

Yes, I am quoting Gene's LCD readout.  RE:  Profile above:  JBM is an island bean and I use a gentle profile despite the elevation at which it is grown. I wouldn't go that low of a profile with a Sumatran.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 02:49:57 PM by BoldJava »

donfo

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Re: Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2009, 01:50:00 PM »
Would you not start at the same temp for the "drying out stage" ....... 390 degrees.