Ms. Silvia vs Gaggia Classic

[George Coury]

I was thinking of pulling the trigger on a new expresso machine and was considering the Gaggia Classic especially with our resident expert input from Tex. But in a similar price range is the Rancilio Silvia now arriving in a new version ( V3). I didn't see much input on searching the GCBC archives on the Silvia. I was wondering if any current or past Silvia owners would have some input on their experience with her or her new sister. Thanks!

[Tex]

I was thinking of pulling the trigger on a new expresso machine and was considering the Gaggia Classic especially with our resident expert input from Tex. But in a similar price range is the Rancilio Silvia now arriving in a new version ( V3). I didn't see much input on searching the GCBC archives on the Silvia. I was wondering if any current or past Silvia owners would have some input on their experience with her or her new sister. Thanks!

I've owned several of both. Each has it's strong points and a few weaknesses. Bottom line though; either will make good espresso if you've a quality espresso grinder, good beans and decent technique. It usually comes down to price & aesthetics.

BTW - Both benefit greatly from being PID'd & tuned.

[jspain]

I have never had a Gaggia, just Ms. Silvia. I am very pleased with Ms. Silvia but I will yield to Tex since he has had experience with both. My Silvia is the older model. She does take time to learn, just like any sophisticated woman, but once you learn her likes and ways she will give you a great shot.

Jim

[mp]

I was thinking of pulling the trigger on a new expresso machine and was considering the Gaggia Classic especially with our resident expert input from Tex. But in a similar price range is the Rancilio Silvia now arriving in a new version ( V3). I didn't see much input on searching the GCBC archives on the Silvia. I was wondering if any current or past Silvia owners would have some input on their experience with her or her new sister. Thanks!

Of course this is your money that you are spending but have you considered buying a used HX machine with an E61 group or a rebuilt Bunn ES-1A such as Robert promotes.  If you are looking at spending $700.00 on a brand new good starter espresso machine such as the Sylvia or Gaggia Classic then for about that much you will buy a machine that you will no longer get upgradeitis.  The added benefit of going this route is that the E61 group is very forgiving for bad technique and produces a great shot more often than not ... much more than a stock Sylvia or Gaggia.  

You can always go start with a Gaggia Carezza or Espresso, then upgrade to a Gaggia Classic or Rancillio Sylvia like I did ... but now that I have the Isomac Tea ll looking back and knowing what I know now I would start there.  As Robert (Tex) mentioned it is imperative to get a great quality Italian grinder capable of giving you the right grind that is required for espresso.  Do not skimp on the grinder as most people have a tendency to do (yes ... I did also ... hind sight is always 20/20) if you want good espresso.

My 2 cents.

 

[Tex]

I have never had a Gaggia, just Ms. Silvia. I am very pleased with Ms. Silvia but I will yield to Tex since he has had experience with both. My Silvia is the older model. She does take time to learn, just like any sophisticated woman, but once you learn her likes and ways she will give you a great shot.

Jim

If yours is the older model it would benefit greatly from having the adjustable OPV added. The older Silvia's really suck at pressure regulation.  

[Tex]

I have never had a Gaggia, just Ms. Silvia. I am very pleased with Ms. Silvia but I will yield to Tex since he has had experience with both. My Silvia is the older model. She does take time to learn, just like any sophisticated woman, but once you learn her likes and ways she will give you a great shot.

Jim

If yours is the older model it would benefit greatly from having the adjustable OPV added. The older Silvia's really suck at pressure regulation.  

Here's what I'm talking about;
---------------------------------------
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/372425
http://pidkits.com/opv.html
http://www.espressoparts.com/product/R_1406/Rancilio_Silvia_ExpansionOPV_Valve_Complete_New.html

[George Coury]

Thanks for everyone's input.
I do have a Rancilio Rocky that seems to be a good grinder. Any reason to upgrade that?
I have considered a used machine, but have no experience in repairing or maintaining an expresso machine so I have to wonder if that would be a good choice. I guess if I had the manuals I could slug through it. Tex seems to think it is not that hard to work on them, but he has been doing it for a while. MP do you know a good spot for these used HX machines or would we be taking our chances on Ebay? I also am looking for something that is not gigantic, would that exclude these machine? I am game to check it out.
Also, I have read a little about Tex's suggestion to PID and tune whatever I purchased which many on Coffeegeek recomend. Tex is that something one with no experiece could do or could I just pay you to do it if your willing?
( BTY is there a spellcheck editor on this site or am I just blind?)

[Tex]

Thanks for everyone's input.
I do have a Rancilio Rocky that seems to be a good grinder. Any reason to upgrade that?
I have considered a used machine, but have no experience in repairing or maintaining an expresso machine so I have to wonder if that would be a good choice.
...

The Rocky is considered by many to be an expensive minimum starting grinder. If it was me - as in my 2¢ - I'd consider cleaning it up, selling it on eBay, and using the proceeds to buy a used commercial grinder & new burrs.

I always tell folks that if you can read a road map & have fair-to-middling cognitive skills, refurbing the used HX machine is pretty easy. My wisest bit of advice though - take lots of pictures as you're disassembling the machine. They'll be invaluable when you begin reassembling the thing.

We've just started a HX User's Group on Yahoo, modeled after the Gaggia & BUG-Is-Bunn User's group forums. We're hoping to get copies of parts diagrams & user's manuals for the different machines. We already have some very good technical expertise on board, ready to help the noob who gets lost.

If this is over your head then I suggest a Gaggia Classic. They're a bit more expensive, but they're great machines and will last for decades with just a bit of preventive maintenance.

PID installs (whether you put the parts together or buy a kit) are for someone with a track record of DIY projects. They're not difficult to do but you will be working with 120 volts and boiling water & steam. If you're not comfortable with that I suggest getting someone else PID your machine for you.

[SusanJoM]

Thanks for everyone's input.
I do have a Rancilio Rocky that seems to be a good grinder. Any reason to upgrade that?
I have considered a used machine, but have no experience in repairing or maintaining an expresso machine so I have to wonder if that would be a good choice. I guess if I had the manuals I could slug through it. Tex seems to think it is not that hard to work on them, but he has been doing it for a while. MP do you know a good spot for these used HX machines or would we be taking our chances on Ebay? I also am looking for something that is not gigantic, would that exclude these machine? I am game to check it out.
Also, I have read a little about Tex's suggestion to PID and tune whatever I purchased which many on Coffeegeek recomend. Tex is that something one with no experiece could do or could I just pay you to do it if your willing?
( BTY is there a spellcheck editor on this site or am I just blind?)

Let me just interject here that if I can do it (she of the 5 thumbs per hand), you can do it.  I added a PID to at least one Gaggia and I have added adjustable OPVs to a couple;  I have taken a few boilers apart and gotten them successfully back together;  I've removed SPV valves.  It's all simple stuff really.  The hardest part is taking the time to understand what parts are what and having the right tools and parts.  Often I would have to go to three hardware stores to get a project done, but....like I sez:  If I can do it it's not hard.  And, if you do go the Gaggia route, there is a ton of help to be found at the Gaggia Users Group....

My personal recommendation for starting out is the Gaggia Classic ($399 including shipping from Costco.com) and the Cunill Tranquilo (or Cunil Tranquillo, I never can remember) $235.00 from the Sovrana Store.  You will never have to upgrade your grinder and you have an espresso machine that you can mod or not as you please...

Susan

[Tex]

Let me just interject here that if I can do it (she of the 5 thumbs per hand), you can do it. 
...

Susan

Susan is the epitome of someone I like helping. She's not intimidated by new concepts, sticks with it until she's mastered it, and demands an answer she can understand. Plus, her greatest attribute was not being put off by my temper when I'd verbally whip her for not grasping what I was telling her.

But don't let her self-effacement fool you. She's got a first class mind behind that bulldog facade. If I was a noob I'd definitely consider her advice.

[mp]

Thanks for everyone's input.

MP do you know a good spot for these used HX machines or would we be taking our chances on Ebay? I also am looking for something that is not gigantic, would that exclude these machine? I am game to check it out.

( BTY is there a spellcheck editor on this site or am I just blind?)

Your welcome gsc76.

I got mine off fLeaBay eBay but you could check CoffeeGeek, HomeBarista, Craigslist, Kijijii, or sometimes even here for deals.  My Isomac Tea ll is just slightly bigger than a Sylvia and weighs about 20 more pounds but still a pour over and I picked it up for $700.00 plus shipping about 2 years ago and it was only 8 months old.  These machines go for $1449.00 from Firstline right now.  Robert's Bunn ES-1A is a rebranded Gaggia however a commercial machine with a rotary vs vibe pump and needs to be hooked into your house's plumbing for water supply and drainage.

I am currently using Firefox and there is a third party spell check add on you can get for that.

Hope that helps.

[SusanJoM]

If I was a noob I'd definitely consider her advice.

And he's occasionally been known to take it even though he isn't a noob.....
hmmmm.....okay, well.....maybe it happened once.....

Susan

[George Coury]

Ok, so now you all in this thread have me thinking about these HX machines and I have held off purchasing anything for now.I was doing a little research and came up with the Quickmill Andrea premium as a very desirable machine, price/value. I was hoping maybe Tex or MP  might have a little input on this. It definitely is in a different price category, but I have been looking for something pre-owned (without success).

[Tex]

Input? You mean like this?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOchVJwbJYI[/youtube]

This Bunn ES-1A cost me ~$300 on eBay five months ago, and I've put ~$30 into it so far.

[mp]

Ok, so now you all in this thread have me thinking about these HX machines and I have held off purchasing anything for now.I was doing a little research and came up with the Quickmill Andrea premium as a very desirable machine, price/value. I was hoping maybe Tex or MP  might have a little input on this. It definitely is in a different price category, but I have been looking for something pre-owned (without success).

Quickmill Andrea premium is a good machine.  If you have patients ... which I did not ... you should wait for the Bunn ES-1A.  This is a commercial machine with parts readily available and going for about $500 used.  It is not a pourover so if you like me have an issue with that then keep an eye out for one of them pourover HX machines such as the Andrea you mentioned.  With the Bunn you may need some guidance but that is certainly something Robert and his Bunn group can provide.

Choices choices.