Used Espresso Machines - Are some better older?

[Hikeon3]

I know the term applies to a lot of products that "They don't make them like they used to." Well I've stumbled upon a used pair of Gaggia items (a Baby and an MDF grinder) both from the early 1990s.

I've been wary of stepping onto the yellow brick road that is espresso preparation, but I've been intrigued by the few truly well-made espresso shots I've had that absolutely curled my beard.

My question is: Are machines made in the 1990's just as viable (or moreso) than a brand new item purchased from costco or the like? And I guess for the purposes of my situation I'm talking about these Gaggia items listed above, but if there are any other brands of machine I might run into that have a large margin of quality change then that is worth mentioning also.

[mp]

Hikeon ... that would probably your least cost entry into that market.  With the Tex mods you will have a kick ass machine on your hands.

[Hikeon3]

Hikeon ... that would probably your least cost entry into that market.  With the Tex mods you will have a kick ass machine on your hands.

I assume you've seen the listing which I'm referring to.
http://tinyurl.com/2bbbmbc
Contacted the guy said they are from the early 90's and has been used probably about as many times as a normal person would use in a year. Cleaned and tested.

Also this little guy, but not sure whether I'd want the 3-way solenoid from the Baby more, or a grinder that I'm not sure is up for 'spro.
http://tinyurl.com/26mes35

On my budget it's tough to make these kinds of calls. Especially since I'm really inexperienced with consumer machines.

[mp]

The first one will work for espresso.  The second one espresso machine is good ... but the grinder may fall short.  The minimum you would need for espresso grind is the Gaggia MDF (first one).

That is a very good deal IMHO.

Are you going for it?

 

[CAGurl]

DON'T DO IT.

Neither of those grinders is gonna give you the results you want with either of those Gaggias.

You will still need to go out and buy a better grinder.

Keep looking for the Gaggia you want and then spring either for a fixer-upper commercial grinder or a Cunil Tranquillo which is the best deal you will get on a brand new espresso capable grinder.  ($235 at the Sovrana Store).  

Susan

[Tex]

My 2 ¢...

The two Gaggias you show can both make good espresso, and IF they're properly modded and tuned they cab make great espresso!

The Baby & Espresso share most of the same parts, except the Baby has a 3-way valve (nothing to do with shot quality) and an adjustable OPV (the Espresso needs to have one installed - $50).

Both machines NEED a PID mod (~$150)!

IMO, neither grinder is up to the task of making quality espresso. I suggest buying the two machines separately: I just saw a Gaggia Espresso sell on eBay for ~$21. Then buy a good grinder; either a used commercial model or a Cunill Tranquilo.

[mp]

Ok ... I give way to the Gaggia users group. 

My understanding was that the MDF was the minimum grinder that would produce crema in an espresso shot. 

What gives?

 

[Tex]

Ok ... I give way to the Gaggia users group. 

My understanding was that the MDF was the minimum grinder that would produce crema in an espresso shot. 

What gives?

 

I no longer recommend any flat burr grinder with <60mm burr sets. And a new MDF or Rocky costs $60 - $120  more than a new Tranquilo or used commercial espresso grinder, so why pay more for a lesser grinder?

Or as you hear it said in the various espresso forums; save yourself some money and buy your last grinder first.

[Hikeon3]

In which case I may have to just halt altogether. Though I see a few decent deals possibly on some grinders on CL...
http://tinyurl.com/37d4678

[mp]

Ok ... I give way to the Gaggia users group. 

My understanding was that the MDF was the minimum grinder that would produce crema in an espresso shot. 

What gives?

 

I no longer recommend any flat burr grinder with <60mm burr sets. And a new MDF or Rocky costs $60 - $120  more than a new Tranquilo or used commercial espresso grinder, so why pay more for a lesser grinder?

Or as you hear it said in the various espresso forums; save yourself some money and buy your last grinder first.

Technically the grind of the MDF will produce crema (flat burrs aside) ... right?

Price wise, the price of an MDF or Rocky is higher than a brand new Tranquillo and not as good a grinder is understandable, and makes good economic sense ... IF you are buying new.

 

[Tex]

Technically two flat stones with coffee beans between them will do the job.

The MDF overheats the beans, the burrs wear out too fast and they wobble, plus the dosing lever and return spring are prone to breaking.

It used to be that one could find a good used espresso grinder for less than a couple hundred dollars. Those days are long gone unless you're willing to be über patient and wait for one to come along and then jump on it!

I figure that with S&H, plus new burrs, a quality used commercial espresso grinder should cost $250 - $300. That's not bad when you figure that, except for replacing burrs every 5 - 10 years, this machine is the last grinder you'll ever NEED to buy.

[mp]

Technically two flat stones with coffee beans between them will do the job.

The MDF overheats the beans, the burrs wear out too fast and they wobble, plus the dosing lever and return spring are prone to breaking.

It used to be that one could find a good used espresso grinder for less than a couple hundred dollars. Those days are long gone unless you're willing to be über patient and wait for one to come along and then jump on it!

I figure that with S&H, plus new burrs, a quality used commercial espresso grinder should cost $250 - $300. That's not bad when you figure that, except for replacing burrs every 5 - 10 years, this machine is the last grinder you'll ever NEED to buy.

Robert ... that is all great information ... and I can appreciate that a commercial grinder does a much better job than an MDF ... but the question ... an MDF grind is fine enough that it technically will produce crema in a decent espresso machine?

 

[Tex]

Technically two flat stones with coffee beans between them will do the job.

The MDF overheats the beans, the burrs wear out too fast and they wobble, plus the dosing lever and return spring are prone to breaking.

It used to be that one could find a good used espresso grinder for less than a couple hundred dollars. Those days are long gone unless you're willing to be über patient and wait for one to come along and then jump on it!

I figure that with S&H, plus new burrs, a quality used commercial espresso grinder should cost $250 - $300. That's not bad when you figure that, except for replacing burrs every 5 - 10 years, this machine is the last grinder you'll ever NEED to buy.

Robert ... that is all great information ... and I can appreciate that a commercial grinder does a much better job than an MDF ... but the question ... an MDF grind is fine enough that it technically will produce crema in a decent espresso machine?

 

Technically; yes. Realistically; maybe, maybe not - too many variables - sharpness of burrs, widely spaced steps, burr wobble, overheated grounds...

[CAGurl]

grind is fine enough that it technically will produce crema in a decent espresso machine?

And, crema is not the objective.
Crema can be present even when the shot tastes like swill.

Susan

[mp]

Technically two flat stones with coffee beans between them will do the job.

The MDF overheats the beans, the burrs wear out too fast and they wobble, plus the dosing lever and return spring are prone to breaking.

It used to be that one could find a good used espresso grinder for less than a couple hundred dollars. Those days are long gone unless you're willing to be über patient and wait for one to come along and then jump on it!

I figure that with S&H, plus new burrs, a quality used commercial espresso grinder should cost $250 - $300. That's not bad when you figure that, except for replacing burrs every 5 - 10 years, this machine is the last grinder you'll ever NEED to buy.

Robert ... that is all great information ... and I can appreciate that a commercial grinder does a much better job than an MDF ... but the question ... an MDF grind is fine enough that it technically will produce crema in a decent espresso machine?

 

Technically; yes. Realistically; maybe, maybe not - too many variables - sharpness of burrs, widely spaced steps, burr wobble, overheated grounds...

All right ... so ... how about this ... technically ... under the right conditions ... yes.  Realistically it will not always be under the right conditions so a good consistent grind is not always attainable.

Would that be correct?