Author Topic: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!  (Read 68093 times)

Tex

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Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« on: May 12, 2010, 05:01:03 PM »
What makes a good espresso machine? I always suggest newbie's and expert alike start off by reading Dr. Ernesto Illy's article on what it takes to make quality espresso. In it he specifies two variables that must be controlled in an espresso machine; brew temperature and brew pressure. Based on Illy's statements, I like to point out that any espresso machine which allows you to tune the temperature and pressure variables, is a machine capable of making fine espresso. Once those two variable have been reduced to constants, it's then a simple matter to master the techniques involved in the production of espresso it's then up to the individual to master the techniques involved in making espresso to the best of their abilities and as far as their interest takes them.

What are the differences between the types of espresso machines? First, I'll eliminate some coffee makers that are commonly referred to as 'espresso makers' but in actuality aren't capable of producing espresso. In this category I include all moka/steam pots, the Aerobi Aeropress, and any other machine that can't produce and maintain a brewing pressure of at least 9 bar.

That leaves  a lot of consumer, prosumer, and commercial espresso machines to discuss. Consumer machines are fairly inexpensive, with small boilers usually made of lightweight material, and use parts that wouldn't stand up to the day-in/day-out constant beating a commercial machine must be made to withstand. A prosumer machine is more robustly built, with larger boilers and other parts, but still not as solidly built as commercial machines. Commercial machines are built to take a beating, with heavy duty frames, large boilers; overall they're built like tanks and last for decades if taken care of.

Within the three general categories of espresso machines (consumer, prosumer, commercial) are four types of machine control: manual, semi-auto, automatic, and super-auto. Manual machines are lever operated, and there are two subsets of lever machines; all-manual and spring-activated. Semi-auto machines have on/off switches to control the flow of water. Automatic machines use a flow control valve and electronics to control how much water each shot is given. The super-auto category is made up of machines with built in grinders and with electronic control of every aspect of the espresso making process.

Then there's the matter of boiler configuration: Single boiler/dual use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), and double boiler (DB). The SBDU is most often used in low to mid-range consumer machines. The SBDU uses the same boiler to brew the shot and heat the water to make steam for micro-frothing. To switch from brewing to steaming a switch is flipped that increases the boiler temperature from ~200°F to ~300°F. Because of the difference in temperature for the two functions, it's not possible to brew and steam at the same time.

The HX machine uses a heat exchanger built into the boiler to provide brew water at the proper temperatures. The boiler temperature is maintained at ~256°F, and fresh water pumped through the HX is flash heated to the correct brewing temperature. Because of this configuration it's possible to pull a shot and steam milk at the same time. This design is used in some prosumer machines and in the majority of commercial machines.

The DB machines have two boilers; one for brewing and another for steaming. Each boiler is maintained at the ideal temperature for each function, resulting in a machine that's both simple to use and is capable of superb temperature stability. This design is used in high-end prosumer and commercial machines.


 :argue:
 :violent1:
 :occasion14:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 07:28:48 PM by Tex »

Offline John F

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2010, 05:08:54 PM »
 Once those two variable have been reduced to constants, it's then a simple matter to master the techniques involved in the production of espresso.

First point of disagreement.

(Like you could not have guessed I'd start here)  ;)

While controlling temp and pressure are essential to good espresso, nailing them down does not equate to a simple path to mastering espresso.

I'd say it gets you a stable platform to work from that with a little effort on the user end should offer something between slightly above disgusting espresso to potentially pretty good shots......depending.

Mastery is not simple but something acceptable to the user might very well be.
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Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2010, 05:10:52 PM »
We need an animated icon of someone arguing the balls off a brass billy goat! Or would that be redundant since we have whatever John is using? ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 05:16:25 PM by Tex »

Offline John F

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2010, 05:13:11 PM »
Or would that be redundant since we have whatever John is using? ;D ;D

I just like accuracy is all.  :angel:
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

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Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2010, 05:15:46 PM »
Or would that be redundant since we have whatever John is using? ;D ;D

I just like accuracy is all.  :angel:

I take your point! :-X

Offline John F

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2010, 05:17:43 PM »
]it's then up to the individual to master the techniques involved in making espresso to the best of their abilities and as far as their interest takes them.

Way better.  ;)
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

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Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2010, 05:32:21 PM »
Now for the blood letting.

Consumer machines: There are two that stand out from the rest; Rancilio Silvia and Gaggia Classic. Both are SBDU machines with 3-way valves and adjustable OPVs. The Silvia has the larger brass boiler, but has a much less powerful heating element. The Classic has a small aluminum boiler, but has the most powerful heating element in it's class.

In stock form and with the group pressure properly adjusted, each machine can produce a very good shot of espresso. Both machine use bimetallic thermostats for brew and steam temperature control and these tstats have huge dead bands. This tends to reduce the temp stability of both machines to marginal functionality. Both machines can be "temp surfed" to increase the temp stability, but to achieve proper temp stability, both machines need a PID mod to replace the brew tstat with electronic control.

thejavaman

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2010, 05:41:22 PM »
I just had a vision of Shaun patiently waiting to pounce on this thread at precisely the right moment....   :P

peechdogg

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2010, 06:58:23 PM »
So, we're just gonna chew the fat on "La Macchina" and disregard the the other 3 M's?Whether or not they are even relevant?

4 M's

Well, just one of the M's should be enough for a bloody fine mess!




Now, if reliable electricity is a problem, with the gas kit option here, you can have a lever operated device, a hand crank grinder and be good to go in the dead of winter or anytime bad weather cuts off the power. I like options!

http://www.espressobrewer.com/prodotti/gloria_lever_al1.phtml

Offline John F

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Offline peter

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2010, 07:34:51 PM »
I see some Vibiemme double boilers, and the Brewtus III have a PID.  How crucial is a PID, other than having the ability to change the brew temps?

What the pros/cons of vibe pumps or rotary pumps?





BTW Tex, smooth move starting the thread before I could get it in HT.   ;)
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Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2010, 07:36:40 PM »
Now for the blood letting.

Consumer machines: There are two that stand out from the rest; Rancilio Silvia and Gaggia Classic. Both are SBDU machines with 3-way valves and adjustable OPVs. The Silvia has the larger brass boiler, but has a much less powerful heating element. The Classic has a small aluminum boiler, but has the most powerful heating element in it's class.

In stock form and with the group pressure properly adjusted, each machine can produce a very good shot of espresso. Both machine use bimetallic thermostats for brew and steam temperature control and these tstats have huge dead bands. This tends to reduce the temp stability of both machines to marginal functionality. Both machines can be "temp surfed" to increase the temp stability, but to achieve proper temp stability, both machines need a PID mod to replace the brew tstat with electronic control.

I neglected to include one of my favorite consumer machines: La Pavoni Europiccola/Professional. In stock form, an experienced user can pull fantastic shots. This is the consummate users machine - everything must be finessed to make it work and when you get it just so, magic happens!

Offline John F

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2010, 07:43:39 PM »
I see some Vibiemme double boilers, and the Brewtus III have a PID.  How crucial is a PID, other than having the ability to change the brew temps?

What the pros/cons of vibe pumps or rotary pumps?

Other than the ability to change temps I don't guess it's all that critical in an E-61 level machine. You could keep an eye on temps in other ways.

I personally would not choose the more expensive rotary/plumbed in if it is an option choice like the BIII you are considering.  ;D If it cost the exact same I would only do it with the bottle flo-pump option because of the ability to work with the water directly instead of using filtration.  

"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

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peechdogg

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2010, 07:50:45 PM »

I neglected to include one of my favorite consumer machines: La Pavoni Europiccola/Professional. In stock form, an experienced user can pull fantastic shots. This is the consummate users machine - everything must be finessed to make it work and when you get it just so, magic happens!


I have a customer who found an Olympia Cremina for like $25 at a GoodWill store... I NEVER find deals like that. I've offered him a poo pile of cash and espresso beans for 6 months and he won't part with that darn machine.
I don't know how those two machine stack up head to head, but I've used both and the Cremina is nice in that it can actually steam milk really well. I don't recall if the La Pavoni steams as well.

Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2010, 07:50:52 PM »
I see some Vibiemme double boilers, and the Brewtus III have a PID.  How crucial is a PID, other than having the ability to change the brew temps?

What the pros/cons of vibe pumps or rotary pumps?

BTW Tex, smooth move starting the thread before I could get it in HT.   ;)

I'll bet that before I get back from vacation this thread will be on HT!

Oscillating/vibe pumps
Pro: Small, cheap, reliable
Con: Noisy, susceptible to scale build up, vibrations, heat sensitive

Rotary pumps
Pro: Reliable, built-in OPV, withstands heat pretty well
Con: expensive, requires separate motor, BIG

A PID has several things to offer. In consumer & prosumer machines they replace the über -problematic bimetallic mechanical thermostats, permitting a very exact starting point for pulling shots.

For commercial machines they replace the single most likely to fail part - the pressurestat. Plus they have the added benefit of making machines very quiet after the pstat is replaced (pstats mechanical relays, 3 in a Sirai, are VERY noisy as they open & close).