Mill City Roasters- Bad experience, NEED Help Please

[Ascholten]

Oh just keep the roaster you whiny little biotch    THERE!  is that histrionic enough for you.  /sarcasm off

This probably won't work well at a farmers market it needs a LOT of juice but the Artisian 6? is it seems a decent roaster.  I am seriously considering getting one for myself here once I get the pig sty I call my garage cleaned up a bit since that is probably where it will be, right next to the power panel.  I think they are running around 4500 or so now including shipping and can do 5 lbs at a shot.  I like the electric aspect of it because I don't want to diddle around with gas and propane tanks and that stuff.  If electric leaks the breaker trips, if gas leaks the house goes boom and your coffee gets sprayed all over the block   

Given what you want it for, you need to make a decision really.  If you really want to get serious about the coffee, then you might want to take a bit of a plunge and get the bigger unit now, and grow into it, instead of blowing 6 grand for a small only to find out a year or so down the road you need to throw 15 grand for a bigger one to meet your needs, and hope to not get soaked too bad selling the small one.

You could possibly finance it as well and if you ARE a legit business, you can write all that crap off at the end of the year somewhat too.  I know, spending that kind of money is one of those sleepless nights as you say holy #$$# what did I just do, but if you have the drive to run your business to success then you will be glad you made that bigger plunge.  You will look back and say, man Im glad I went big up front, because it sure helped me grow my business without spending all my waking moments making coffee a pound at a crack.

Aaron

[Joe]

Oh just keep the roaster you whiny little biotch    THERE!  is that histrionic enough for you.  /sarcasm off

Yeah I that was a nice touch throw in a nice rarely used word for a subtle insult= "histrionic". All I can say is these threads along with all the group buys for Huky's and US Roasters etc... Have got me thinking. Stay tuned.

[Charly]

My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:03:35 AM by Joe »


 Maybe I'm a sucker but I don't think so in this case. My North roaster does everything the USRC can, more than a small Deidrich,  but cost me thousands and thousands of dollars less. Buying something directly from China is definitely *much* more risky than having Mill City be the middleman, IMO, and I think that's very clear. 

[Joe]

My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:03:35 AM by Joe »


 Maybe I'm a sucker but I don't think so in this case. My North roaster does everything the USRC can, more than a small Deidrich,  but cost me thousands and thousands of dollars less. Buying something directly from China is definitely *much* more risky than having Mill City be the middleman, IMO, and I think that's very clear.

I can see that you feel as if you got your money's worth. Good for you, but with the current offerings all scraping $5k-10k it's not going to get me to jump. I bought my first "used" Sonofresco for $1500 and that was a big decision for me. It has since more than paid itself off and I would have paid off a North roaster as well albeit much further down the road. Don't worry 5 years from now there should be a plethora of successful Coffee tycoons selling their used "North" roasters for about $1000.

well it looks like you have the same protections as is very clear from this thread---through your credit card. No middleman or up-charge required. A quick search shows quite a bit of homogeny in the Chinese roaster market. I would take my chances if I was in the save money game for a New China roaster and just cut out the distributor who basically is placing an order for you exclusively. You can fly yourself to China with the savings just from going direct based on what I am seeing on Aliexpress. The Chinese roasters and Turkey roasters are attractive because of their cost, so why not complete that cycle and get it as cheap as possible, and use your buyer protection from your credit card? You can get the Mill city "North", or the Adventures with coffee(AWC) roaster, or the Buckeye roaster...What's the difference? Actually the other two options are cheaper..

I have seen used US roasters come in around the $5k range some more some less but for $5000 +/- $2000, if I am in the "way-better support" needed camp, I am going US made. If you are really stuck on the cost of it they are also about  1.5-3X as much as a "New" Sonofresco depending on model Sonofresco on Amazon who knew?. I understand that some people don't want to hear about Air roasting, sounds like you might be in that camp, I prefer it but I am a minority in this.

As you can probably tell, I don't care for Chinese commercial products personally even ones that are distributed and supported by a Great American business. Why? because even the distributors are at the mercy of the supplier. If the supplier goes belly up or has problems it rolls down hill and how can you hope to control anything originating in China that has nothing to do with the American Business. At that price point $5k+ which is the tween period of Pro vs extreme semi-pro, and beyond a home-roaster...it's still a lot of money, the discount isn't enough.

[Joe]

My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:03:35 AM by Joe »


 Maybe I'm a sucker but I don't think so in this case.

ok Charly, stop being so histrionic ....hahahaha!!!

[Kind_Karma]

Aaron- what size to you is a larger size for a small business? 3K? 5K? I was going to use the 1K North Roaster as a sample roaster, practice roast profiles and some production to get started. I have a cafe waiting for me to get things dialed in so that they can start using my coffee. I want to start out with having them feature my coffee once a week as a special local roast thing- both drip & espresso. I also plan on selling beans @ grower's market and do not have to have the roaster there, just thought it would be cool 

This has been an interesting purchasing experience, but thank you all for sharing your viewpoints. I wasn't much of a forum poster in the past, mainly just here ordering greens and lurking- pretty level-headed group!

Peace.

[hankua]

I went to see a 6 lb Primo a couple of weeks ago locally; the owner had just scored a like new Diedrich IR12 with 25 hours on it for 20K. Think he was asking $6700 for the Primo which was only a couple of years old. Interesting machine, very simple design and operation. It sold to a guy in South Florida as my horse trading plan had stalled.

It is possible to find a deal on a used roaster, but can take both time and luck. Mill City is probably importing containers of roasters or large LCL shipments of machines. They eliminate all the hassles of self-importation (I imported my own machine, it was easy), support the owners, and make the minor changes we expect (data logging, regulators, hoses, etc.) You want a roster?, they got it or will have it soon; and this apparently is a market opportunity.

Glad to OP got things sorted out; time to look for a replacement.

[Joe]

You want a roster?, they got it or will have it soon; and this apparently is a market opportunity.

Maybe. Looks like Kind_Karma waited several months for a custom color because the one color they wanted (blue-purple) originally supposedly sold out from under him and they say the wait time is several weeks (because they order ahead. That is several months that could've been spent on the finding one that meets the needs used and most likely better.  This is a big country with several people moving roasters either up or down. Which allows for opportunities. According to Steve if you believe him they are moving several per month/weekend, I don't believe it nor do I believe that they order ahead to save time...I'm sorry, but I don't see them risking money for something that can turn on a dime. You order they order they inspect and then they send it to you. That is why they sent it to him anyways turquoise instead of dark blue.

Think of Espresso machines, I had an Elektra T-1, moved up from an Pasquini/Olympia Livietta and now use a Gaggia classic. Do I need to have three new machines? Nah I can use the used ones...Would I have got my use out of them, yes...but I got more than enough use out of the used ones too and a lot  less invested.

[peter]

Kind_Karma would never find a used roaster in the color he wanted.

[Joe]

Kind_Karma would never find a used roaster in the color he wanted.

Nice one Peter, gotta say I'm a little disappointed- Maybe you don't care....I know Dave and Steve are your pals, and you probably feel an overwhelming need to break their silence, especially Dave's. But it is kinda hard to take shots at Kind_Karma on this one. I would think you would have more pull calling out your pals on this one.

But let's just to pretend you are not making a burn,

Yep Most likely not "wanted". I definitely didn't want a candy apple red Sonofresco. But when you buy a used roaster knowing the color and it arrives that color then that seems like something you are prepared for or could live with. Not to mention the nice discount from the less than desirable color- Mine was $800, about 45% less than I had paid for my Stainless model used.

[Kind_Karma]

     I can be flexible on the color if I know what it is ahead of time. After we agreed on the color the logo and label were worked on(I had months to work on the design, since the orders kept getting pushed back).  If we had agreed on a different color, I would have worked on incorporating that color on the logo/label. So it's not that I was stuck on that particular color, but that was the agreed color that I purchased. The roaster was brand-new and not used. I understand the need for being flexible on color when buying used. I also think that if I agree on a color & purchase a brand new roaster with say US Roasters or another coffee roaster vendor, then I would expect that color to be shipped to me. If not, I would want some compensation and being taken care of w/ good customer service- NOT described as "histrionic" and forced to contact my credit card company to file a dispute.

I respect your opinion peter because I have bought green beans from you in the past and have enjoyed them I understand that these could be your friends, but this is a business. I chose this vendor because of the reputation that is stated online and because of BoldJava. In the end, it's not whether you like someone(which I did) or they like you(guess they didn't?), business is business and $4,500 is a significant purchase.

I am not trying to ruffle feathers by sharing this experience. I was truly taken away by the initial responses I received from the vendor after the mix-up, that's why I posted in here for some guidance. Which, helped resolved the situation. I am still not sure why some would put me in the category of having done something wrong...or make negative comments towards me.

Peace.

[Ascholten]

karma, the majority is not putting you in the 'bad guy' seat.  No matter what you do, who you are, every decision you make, there will be at least one person who is not happy.  Don't take it so personal.  Don't have to be a gaping (_*_) on some things like I can be but it's not worth getting ruffled over, really it isn't.

Yes, if you are going to be roasting for a shop and your farmers market then YES, a 2 to 5K is a good starting point.  Trust me, if someone orders 40 Lbs of coffee or you are doing 100 Lb a week, you do NOT want to be doing that in 1 to 2 lb increments.    Remember, when you are roasting coffee, you really should *not* walk away from the thing while it is going.  If only I would follow my own advice Id probably have had a few less fires in my Behmor,  I claim old age / brain damage / CRS, whatever I can get away with for that   But on that, do the simple math and figure the time you will be spending in front of your machine.   Now throw in wifey pooh, lack of attention, .. see where this can go?  The faster you can be done with it, the better, honestly.  That honey do list isn't going to complete itself hehe.

Another thing to consider, you want to develop roast profiles, yes that is good, but...   The roast profile you develop in one machine is NOT necessarily going to fit on a different / bigger machine.  In order to get a 'true' roast profile on a machine you need to roast in IT.  Throw a smaller batch in to get an idea and tweak as you do more.

The Artisan I mentioned you can roast as little as half a pound at a time and up to 5 Lbs.  I have heard some people say they can do almost 6 Lbs in it.  Id say the type of beans plays a significant part of that, but  that's a different topic.

If you already have that shop pretty much committed to buying coffee from you, Id say get the big machine, yes it's a chunk of change up front but you already have a 'money source' ie a sales path so it's not a shot in the dark, the income is already established pretty much. 

Its something to think about.

Aaron

[peter]

My comment on the color has nothing to do with any friendship I may or may not have - that's irrelavant to the discussion, and I'm sorry that you brought that into it.  It was nothing more than a comment regarding Joe's push toward buying used, thinking that if the OP needed a specific color, buying used wasn't a reasonable option...

[Joe]

My comment on the color has nothing to do with any friendship I may or may not have - that's irrelavant to the discussion, and I'm sorry that you brought that into it.  It was nothing more than a comment regarding Joe's push toward buying used, thinking that if the OP needed a specific color, buying used wasn't a reasonable option...

Well I am for one glad to hear that. Because it reads like Kind_Karma is being histrionic or irrational, or was maybe picky. Knowing your connections to Mill City and its main people it doesn't come off as "gee would you be able to get past the color, if you were to buy used?" But if it was simply out of concern for Kind_Karma and his dilemma, then I apologize for pointing out your connections to Dave and Steve and for assuming that maybe that had more to do with your reason for posting what appeared to read like a burn.

But my answer still stands. I think you are getting hung up on the "Needed" part as a rational for not going used or for looking at other options. I don't think the "Needed" Part was ever discussed. It was an "ordered" thing. Putting myself in the buyers shoes: when I order something, I expect it done as ordered exactly. Someone at Mill city was looking at a turquoise roaster and said "let's ship this thing to the customer", not "ohh man! The color is way wrong, I don't think he is going to like this. BTW lets get the right plug or step up converter whatever we agreed to before it leaves as well". Nope they pushed it through and here we are. Needing is for Taxes, food, air, water, all that jazz. If I order a gooseneck kettle and it comes as a flip top, I'm sending it back. If I ordered a Death Star Waffle maker and I get a Han Solo frozen in Carbonite- I'm sending it back. If I order a Black fridge and it comes back red it's going back. If I order a dark blue roaster and wait 3 months for it and it comes back turquoise....uhhhh gonna go back for sure.

I will say that I wouldn't have let it go home with me from the freight dock assuming I got that far into the transaction, I would have refused delivery then and there. That is the only part I don't get from Kind_Karma. Maybe that wasn't an option?

[peter]

I'm with you on buying used whenever practical, which in my book would be 99% of the time.  My Ambex came from a past GCBC member, and saved me almost $4K.

I'm also with you on getting exactly what I pay for.  Even if it means being histrionic.