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Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Tex on December 16, 2009, 08:35:49 AM

Title: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on December 16, 2009, 08:35:49 AM
Brewing, or group, pressure is one of two espresso machine variables that needs to be managed, and requires an OPV be mounted on the machine. OPV = adjustable pressure release valve (http://home.earthlink.net/~r_harmon/OPV-PRV%20page.htm)

For Gaggia's with aluminum boilers that don't have an adjustable OPV (Classic & Baby do, Espresso, Carezza, Evolution, Coffee, etc, don't) the OEM water inlet (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B-0111-Gaggia-water-inlet-fitting-B-0111.htm;jsessionid=855A4CF1FE532743595A3C5C25E4C49E.qscstrfrnt02) can be replaced with the Gaggia Classic OPV (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B0147-A-Gaggia-inlet-fitting-with-OPV-B0147-A.htm;jsessionid=855A4CF1FE532743595A3C5C25E4C49E.qscstrfrnt02).

Once installed, an OPV is adjusted using a group mounted pressure gauge, often mounted on your portafilter (http://www.espressoparts.com/cgi-bin/ep.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=71&prrfnbr=616&sesent=0,0&search_id=106274).

Here's a great article on coffee: http://tinyurl.com/Complexity-Of-Coffee (http://tinyurl.com/Complexity-Of-Coffee)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: milowebailey on December 16, 2009, 09:59:16 AM
Ok, so I keep reading about replacing the Gaggia steam wand with a Silvia.

Before I do that explain to me why? :P  What is the difference between the Gaggia steam wand and the Silvia?

thanks

New Gaggias owner - milowebailey
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: Tex on December 16, 2009, 10:05:16 AM
Ok, so I keep reading about replacing the Gaggia steam wand with a Silvia.

Before I do that explain to me why? :P  What is the difference between the Gaggia steam wand and the Silvia?

thanks

New Gaggias owner - milowebailey


How about a demo Larry?

OEM wand with PID for brew & steam.
PID'd Carezza steaming with old-style OEM wand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO5apReHH3c#)

Silvia wand w/PID for brew & steam.
2011-09-13: Gaggia Evolution steaming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDkWCUyUfkk#ws)

Notice the size of the bubbles in the steam? The larger the bubbles, the larger the bubbles in the micro foam.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: mp on December 17, 2009, 04:41:21 PM
Hmm ... better for those frou frou drinks then?

 :)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: grover on April 04, 2010, 04:17:42 PM
I got sick of waiting for a Gaggia to turn up in our local CL market so I bought one off of ebay (from whole latte love?) From the initial post here I thought the "baby" would have the adjustable OPV but now looking at the parts diagram for the "new baby" I see it may not....Darn it! Which OPV would I replace it with? I think it has a plastic valve.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400111035328&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400111035328&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123) 

I think it would have been a decent deal if it would have only needed to be PID'd....I don't do the milk thing so I don't need the silvia steam wand.....at least for now.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: Tex on April 04, 2010, 04:42:46 PM
I got sick of waiting for a Gaggia to turn up in our local CR market so I bought one off of ebay (from whole lotta love?) From the initial post here I thought the "baby" would have the adjustable OPV but now looking at the parts diagram for the "new baby" I see it may not....Darn it! Which OPV would I replace it with? I think it has a plastic valve.

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400111035328&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400111035328&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123[/url])  

I think it would have been a decent deal if it would have only needed to be PID'd....I don't do the milk thing so I don't need the silvia steam wand.....at least for now.


Replace this part:                             with this part:
 (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/images/1206162893827-801127646.jpeg) (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B-0111-Gaggia-water-inlet-fitting-B-0111.htm;jsessionid=462DC836D5494D0D042F9A97EBFAC8B8.qscstrfrnt01)                  (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/images/1210920910907-1092669540.jpeg) (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B0147-A-Gaggia-inlet-fitting-with-OPV-B0147-A.htm;jsessionid=462DC836D5494D0D042F9A97EBFAC8B8.qscstrfrnt01).

Simple swap out of OEM parts.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: grover on April 04, 2010, 05:36:27 PM
Thanks Again Tex! :)      Should I remove item 60 (the plastic 11 bar valve) or just leave that there?
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure.
Post by: Tex on April 04, 2010, 05:51:19 PM
Thanks Again Tex! :)      Should I remove item 60 (the plastic 11 bar valve) or just leave that there?

I'd leave it in place, "Ain't broke, don't fix it."
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 04, 2010, 06:12:02 PM
And to kick things up a notch, let's throw in temp management.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: mp on April 04, 2010, 06:32:56 PM
That is incredible ... you are Mr. PID!

 :)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: grover on April 04, 2010, 06:58:09 PM
http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B0147-A-BK4-Gaggia-OPV-and-water-inlet-fitting-for-pump-kit-B0147-A-BK4.htm (http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B0147-A-BK4-Gaggia-OPV-and-water-inlet-fitting-for-pump-kit-B0147-A-BK4.htm)

Before I read your reply I found this......deals with the "new" baby OPVs. So I take it that these Gaggias need the pressure tuned down more often than not and leaving the 11 bar valve in is not a restriction in the line.

[img][img]
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 04, 2010, 08:37:25 PM
[url]http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B0147-A-BK4-Gaggia-OPV-and-water-inlet-fitting-for-pump-kit-B0147-A-BK4.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.shop.partsguru.com/B0147-A-BK4-Gaggia-OPV-and-water-inlet-fitting-for-pump-kit-B0147-A-BK4.htm[/url])

Before I read your reply I found this......deals with the "new" baby OPVs. So I take it that these Gaggias need the pressure tuned down more often than not and leaving the 11 bar valve in is not a restriction in the line.



Correct!
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: John F on April 04, 2010, 08:47:30 PM
What's this 11 bar valve thing?

And if they could why not put in a 9 bar valve?

 :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 04, 2010, 09:41:51 PM
What's this 11 bar valve thing?

And if they could why not put in a 9 bar valve?

 :icon_scratch:

Something to do with Illy & their ESE pods. To get their certification requires 11 bar pressure, which is OK for most users. For picky dudes though, an adjustable OPV is required.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 28, 2010, 09:26:51 AM
The cause of so many problems, the Gaggia self-priming valve (SPV) is one of Gaggia's worst ideas; right up there with the Baby Twin. Simply stated: The valve doesn't work; it leaks, robbing Gaggia's of steam and brewing pressure.

I developed a simple fix: http://tinyurl.com/Gaggia-SPV-fix (http://tinyurl.com/Gaggia-SPV-fix)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: CAGurl on April 28, 2010, 09:34:49 AM
What's this 11 bar valve thing?

And if they could why not put in a 9 bar valve?

 :icon_scratch:

I think it's because "___bar capable" is a rating when comparing espresso machines, and uninformed consumers (which includes almost all Gaggia buyers) will think that a higher bar rating is a better thing.....

If it was only capable of producing 9 bar, someone might think that a machine capable of producing 15 bar was better....
(well, duh....that's what I would have thought back then.....)

Susan
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: John F on April 28, 2010, 09:53:22 AM
If it was only capable of producing 9 bar, someone might think that a machine capable of producing 15 bar was better....

An option would be nice.

Yes, I'll take the 9 bar machine...thanks!  :angel:
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: CAGurl on April 28, 2010, 10:09:07 AM
If it was only capable of producing 9 bar, someone might think that a machine capable of producing 15 bar was better....

An option would be nice.

Yes, I'll take the 9 bar machine...thanks!  :angel:

Just buy a Classic.
The adjustable OPV comes with it and you can tune it as you like it....
Susan
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 28, 2010, 11:55:09 AM
Just buy a Classic...

...for $499.99.

Or can one buy a used Gaggia Espresso/Coffee for <$100 and buy a Classic OPV for ~$50 and have the same brewing capabilities for a lot less money? Maybe one could use the remainder to buy a good espresso grinder & PID kit? Just a thought.

edited: The only advantages a Classic offers are a s/s chassis and a 3-way valve. Some like the brushed s/s look and some don't.

The 3-way valve has nothing (as in zilch) to do with the quality of the coffee. It'll give you a drier puck and makes pulling back to back shots seem faster. In reality it takes ~30 seconds between shots for the brew temp to stabilize; more than enough time for the group pressure to bleed off between shots. Of course, if you don't have a 3-way valve and you remove the portafilter too soon after pulling a shot you'll get the dreaded portafilter sneeze!

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: yorel23 on April 28, 2010, 12:04:56 PM
Just buy a Classic...

...for $499.99.

Or can one buy a used Gaggia Espresso/Coffee for <$100 and buy a Classic OPV for ~$50 and have the same brewing capabilities for a lot less money? Maybe one could use the remainder to buy a good espresso grinder & PID kit? Just a thought.
+1. 

Get a decent machine for cheap and use the money saved on a grinder!
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 29, 2010, 12:51:30 PM
Here's a way I get good steam performance out of a Gaggia that's been PID'd for brew temperature control only. (http://home.earthlink.net/~r_harmon/bypass%20steam%20tstat.htm)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~cm_harmon/images/jumper%20(Small).jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: CAGurl on April 29, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
...for $499.99.
Or can one buy a used Gaggia Espresso/Coffee for <$100 and buy a Classic OPV for ~$50 and have the same brewing capabilities for a lot less money? Maybe one could use the remainder to buy a good espresso grinder & PID kit? Just a thought.

Been there.
Done that.

But that's not the route for everyone.
Not everyone wants to bake their own bread.
Not everyone wants to change their own oil.
Not everyone wants to build their own house.

I went the do-it-myself route before I bought the Classic, and I spent W A A A A Y more than the $399 I paid for the Classic buying clunkers, buying parts that did and didn't work, buying tools, etc.  It was fun and I learned a lot, but it is not for everyone.  Anyone who wants to do it should;  for everyone else there's.....The Gaggia Classic  (and darn, even then you have to add a PID....)

Actually, right now the very best thing anyone could do would be to buy the one Tex has FS right now.  Dang...that's a good deal.  And/or bid on the one Larry has donated for the auction.  Now why weren't THEY available when I was buyin'?????
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 29, 2010, 01:43:57 PM
...for $499.99.
Or can one buy a used Gaggia Espresso/Coffee for <$100 and buy a Classic OPV for ~$50 and have the same brewing capabilities for a lot less money? Maybe one could use the remainder to buy a good espresso grinder & PID kit? Just a thought.
f

Been there.
Done that.

But that's not the route for everyone.
Not everyone wants to bake their own bread.
Not everyone wants to change their own oil.
Not everyone wants to build their own house.

I went the do-it-myself route before I bought the Classic, and I spent W A A A A Y more than the $399 I paid for the Classic buying clunkers, buying parts that did and didn't work, buying tools, etc.  It was fun and I learned a lot, but it is not for everyone.  Anyone who wants to do it should;  for everyone else there's.....The Gaggia Classic  (and darn, even then you have to add a PID....)

Susan

And even then you've got to tune the Classic to get the most from it. If you want a plug & play machine you can figure on spending at least a $1,000 more.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on April 29, 2010, 02:16:09 PM
Just buy a Classic...

...for $499.99.

Or can one buy a used Gaggia Espresso/Coffee for <$100 and buy a Classic OPV for ~$50 and have the same brewing capabilities for a lot less money? Maybe one could use the remainder to buy a good espresso grinder & PID kit? Just a thought.

edited: The only advantages a Classic offers are a s/s chassis and a 3-way valve. Some like the brushed s/s look and some don't.

The 3-way valve has nothing (as in zilch) to do with the quality of the coffee. It'll give you a drier puck and makes pulling back to back shots seem faster. In reality it takes ~30 seconds between shots for the brew temp to stabilize; more than enough time for the group pressure to bleed off between shots. Of course, if you don't have a 3-way valve and you remove the portafilter too soon after pulling a shot you'll get the dreaded portafilter sneeze!


Oh yeah, one very important thing:
If your machine does NOT have a 3-way valve you'll never have to worry about back flushing. A 3-way valve is the ONLY reason you have to back flush; a group valve equipped machine cannot be back flushed.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 22, 2011, 11:38:32 AM
Just buy a Classic...

...for $499.99.

Or can one buy a used Gaggia Espresso/Coffee for <$100 and buy a Classic OPV for ~$50 and have the same brewing capabilities for a lot less money? Maybe one could use the remainder to buy a good espresso grinder & PID kit? Just a thought.

edited: The only advantages a Classic offers are a s/s chassis and a 3-way valve. Some like the brushed s/s look and some don't.

The 3-way valve has nothing (as in zilch) to do with the quality of the coffee. It'll give you a drier puck and makes pulling back to back shots seem faster. In reality it takes ~30 seconds between shots for the brew temp to stabilize; more than enough time for the group pressure to bleed off between shots. Of course, if you don't have a 3-way valve and you remove the portafilter too soon after pulling a shot you'll get the dreaded portafilter sneeze!


Oh yeah, one very important thing:
If your machine does NOT have a 3-way valve you'll never have to worry about back flushing. A 3-way valve is the ONLY reason you have to back flush; a group valve equipped machine cannot be back flushed.

There's always an exception isn't there? :)

If your machine has a Classic adjustable OPV (whether stock or modded), then you'll need to backflush it when you descale the boiler. This will force descaling fluid through the OPV, cleaning it.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: roastingnerd on May 18, 2011, 07:11:58 AM
Last month I bought what I think was a black plastic version of the current SS Classic.  It came with no instructions and when I downloaded them, there was no discussion about OPVs or backflushing.  I can't get much creama out of it, so I probably need to figure this out.  I don't even know hot to get at the OPV.  Can I get that kind of info at the Gaggia users group, or here.?
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: HeartsKing on June 16, 2011, 03:10:19 PM
The cause of so many problems, the Gaggia self-priming valve (SPV) is one of Gaggia's worst ideas; right up there with the Baby Twin. Simply stated: The valve doesn't work; it leaks, robbing Gaggia's of steam and brewing pressure.

I developed a simple fix: [url]http://tinyurl.com/Gaggia-SPV-fix[/url] ([url]http://tinyurl.com/Gaggia-SPV-fix[/url])


For anyone who's done this mod, did you purchase the .45 piece from McMaster-Carr?  If so, how much was shipping?  Were you able to find a local source like home depot?

Irwin
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on June 16, 2011, 03:39:29 PM
The cause of so many problems, the Gaggia self-priming valve (SPV) is one of Gaggia's worst ideas; right up there with the Baby Twin. Simply stated: The valve doesn't work; it leaks, robbing Gaggia's of steam and brewing pressure.

I developed a simple fix: [url]http://tinyurl.com/Gaggia-SPV-fix[/url] ([url]http://tinyurl.com/Gaggia-SPV-fix[/url])


For anyone who's done this mod, did you purchase the .45 piece from McMaster-Carr?  If so, how much was shipping?  Were you able to find a local source like home depot?

Irwin



Try your local Fastenal or hardware stores. I do so many of them that I buy them by the box from McMaster.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: milowebailey on June 17, 2011, 08:53:28 AM
I normally just unscrew the barbed fitting and tap the center of it to 4-40 and then buy a 4-40 stainless screw... add a little teflon tape to the threads of the screw, problem solved.  I also put a nut on the end of the screw, but I don't think that it's necessary.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: HeartsKing on June 17, 2011, 10:09:45 AM
I normally just unscrew the barbed fitting and tap the center of it to 4-40 and then buy a 4-40 stainless screw... add a little teflon tape to the threads of the screw, problem solved.  I also put a nut on the end of the screw, but I don't think that it's necessary.

Great suggestion, but I don't want to invest in a tap set too; well, I want to, but I probably shouldn't.  I'm already getting a pressure kit and the adjustable OPV.

I'll keep that in mind though.  Think I like the teflon tape idea, just in case my coffee making habits have irreversibly been synced to having the hot water flow back into the reserve tank, then I can go back to the stock setup.

Irwin
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on June 17, 2011, 05:08:49 PM
I normally just unscrew the barbed fitting and tap the center of it to 4-40 and then buy a 4-40 stainless screw... add a little teflon tape to the threads of the screw, problem solved.  I also put a nut on the end of the screw, but I don't think that it's necessary.

Great suggestion, but I don't want to invest in a tap set too; well, I want to, but I probably shouldn't.  I'm already getting a pressure kit and the adjustable OPV.

I'll keep that in mind though.  Think I like the teflon tape idea, just in case my coffee making habits have irreversibly been synced to having the hot water flow back into the reserve tank, then I can go back to the stock setup.

Irwin

The problem with the SPV is, it's a thief. It leaks, permitting the pressurized boiler to leak water back into the reservoir, and because it's an unregulated flow there's no way to adjust the OPV to compensate for it.

It's the same situation when you steaming - the SPV lets steam bypass the valve and flow to the reservoir.

It may not be the worst idea Gaggia ever had, but the Twin and the SPV are probably in a neck and neck race for that distinction.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: petershek on July 02, 2011, 01:51:43 AM
Tex, thanks very much for the PID connection scheme.  I'm using a Gaggia Baby Dose.  Before reading your post here, I was trying to figure out how to control both brew/steam temperature with a single PID while keeping the functionality/lights on the original control panel.  Now you give me the answer: to fool the thermostat sensors of the machine!  Brilliant idea!

Regarding the pressure, I was told by a local tech guy to trim down the spring inside this T-shape plastic thing bit by bit and try out the pressure with a guage (what do you call that T-shape thing?)  It came to a success that I could use a sticker to mark the position for 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5 bar.  Now I'm using 9 bar settings.  Any comment on this modification and any drawbacks?
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5618402720_4ec191c198_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5066/5618401716_91188950ef_z.jpg)


Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on July 11, 2011, 01:49:07 PM
For all you Gaggia owners; remember to descale on at least a quarterly schedule - regardless of how hard or soft your tap water is.

For machines with a group valve (everything but Classic, Baby, OWC, and a few others), remove the internal piece (rightmost piece in picture), and using a straightened paper clip, ream out the hole in the bottom of the boiler controlled by the group valve.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: roastingnerd on August 16, 2011, 12:28:36 PM
Boy, I didn't ralize how much trouble making decent espresso is when I bought what appears now to be a used Gaggia Espresso.   I thought it was a Classic because it had all the same controls only in different places.  I figured it was just an older model.  I don't make really decent espresso, so I figure some of the mods here might be needed.  But I am 80 now and my geek days are behind me.  Wonder if anyone could describe what might be needed for that machine so I could just show it to my son, next time he comes over.
Thanks.
Pete
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on August 16, 2011, 07:59:16 PM
Boy, I didn't ralize how much trouble making decent espresso is when I bought what appears now to be a used Gaggia Espresso.   I thought it was a Classic because it had all the same controls only in different places.  I figured it was just an older model.  I don't make really decent espresso, so I figure some of the mods here might be needed.  But I am 80 now and my geek days are behind me.  Wonder if anyone could describe what might be needed for that machine so I could just show it to my son, next time he comes over.
Thanks.
Pete


There are 3 mods I recommend;
1) Self Priming Valve mod: Gaggia designed the SPV so users wouldn't have to learn how to prime a boiler. Problem is, the blasted thing leaks and robs the boiler of brew & steam pressure. It's a very cheap & simple fix, and only the newer models of aluminum boiler machines need it.

2) Adjustable Over Pressure Valve: Conventional wisdom holds that espresso is best brewed at ~9 bar pressure. The pumps used in consumer espresso machines put out ~15 bar pressure. Some Gaggia models, like the Classic, have adjustable OPVs; and those models that don't have them can easily be retro-fitted with one for ~$50.

3) PID: Gaggia machines are equipped with mechanical thermostats that operate within a range of ~50 degrees. This is known as the dead-band, and simply put it sucks. CW holds that espresso should be brewed within a starting range of temperatures (196°F - 203°F), and a stock tstat just can't manage. A PID is a replacement for the stock tstat and can hold a beginning temp within 1°F. PID kits can be had for ~$150 and are fairly simple to install and come with excellent instructions.

I hope this helps and isn't too confusing? There's also a Gaggia users group (follow the link in my signature) with members who're glad to help. Here's a link that goes into these in more detail. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/app/howto/entry/view/6664e983-dbcd-4019-8de8-5365c25f3780)

edited: It always helps if you include a picture of your machine.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on October 23, 2011, 02:02:52 PM
About the 3-way valve in Classic & Baby models.

The 3-way valve relieves pressure in the brewhead after a shot. If you remove the portafilter of a non 3-way equipped machine, you might experience the thrill of a portafilter sneeze - wherein the pressurized contents of the brewhead blows back on the operator. Believe me, 200°F coffee is not fun!

So, if you have a Gaggia machine that's not equipped with a 3-way valve, let the pressure bleed off before removing the portafilter.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on October 23, 2011, 02:05:36 PM
The 3-way valve relieves pressure in the brewhead after a shot.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2012, 07:17:17 AM
A Gaggia Classic with the group pressure properly adjusted, pulls a nice lungo.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0eLkKwA3QE#ws)

This machine does not have a PID.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: mp on February 01, 2012, 12:33:05 PM
Great looking shot there Robert ... as usual.

 :)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2012, 12:41:21 PM
Great looking shot there Robert ... as usual.

 :)

As grandpa used to say, "Even a blind pig finds an acorn now & then." That shot was more or less a fluke Mike - you can't always count on the bi-metallic thermostats in consumer machines to be accurate enough to make a shot like that.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: mp on February 01, 2012, 12:44:03 PM
Great looking shot there Robert ... as usual.

 :)

As grandpa used to say, "Even a blind pig finds an acorn now & then." That shot was more or less a fluke Mike - you can't always count on the bi-metallic thermostats in consumer machines to be accurate enough to make a shot like that.

I say the experience and knowledge of the puller certainly helped.

 :)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: roastingnerd on February 01, 2012, 12:48:18 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: milowebailey on February 01, 2012, 12:53:15 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Nerd

Crema is not all in the machine.   The coffee, the age, the grind, and the espresso machine settings will determine the crema.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2012, 12:55:39 PM
Howdy Nerd!
I look at crema volume the same way I look at other frou-frou; it's more about riding the bicycle than showing off what you can do with it.

Once you know your machine & grinder are in proper tune, then crema has more to do with bean freshness than anything else. And some beans make hardly any crema no matter how fresh they are.
(http://www.betabeat.com/files/2011/07/bmx1.gif)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2012, 12:59:23 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Nerd

Crema is not all in the machine.   The coffee, the age, the grind, and the espresso machine settings will determine the crema.

But (There's always a butt around here, right?), brew temp does play into the color of the crema. Too low and it's blond; too high and it's more brown; just right and the crema is redder.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: milowebailey on February 01, 2012, 01:03:38 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Nerd

Crema is not all in the machine.   The coffee, the age, the grind, and the espresso machine settings will determine the crema.

But (There's always a butt around here, right?), brew temp does play into the color of the crema. Too low and it's blond; too high and it's more brown; just right and the crema is redder.

So you agree with me. :)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2012, 01:08:37 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Nerd

Crema is not all in the machine.   The coffee, the age, the grind, and the espresso machine settings will determine the crema.

But (There's always a butt around here, right?), brew temp does play into the color of the crema. Too low and it's blond; too high and it's more brown; just right and the crema is redder.

So you agree with me. :)

Always! ;D
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: mp on February 01, 2012, 02:09:57 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Nerd

Crema is not all in the machine.   The coffee, the age, the grind, and the espresso machine settings will determine the crema.

But (There's always a butt around here, right?), brew temp does play into the color of the crema. Too low and it's blond; too high and it's more brown; just right and the crema is redder.

So you agree with me. :)

Always! ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2012, 02:20:14 PM
Tex: Wow that video WITHOUT a PID shows so much more crema than my  machine ever achieved.  I would be so happy to have mine working half that well.  At best, I got a quarter of an inch of crema on my espressos.  There must be something wrong with me or mine.
I tried the links to user groups stuff and I guess i'll need to join Yahoo.  Already have 3 internet accounts and I was hoping not to have to set another up.


Nerd
Nerd

Crema is not all in the machine.   The coffee, the age, the grind, and the espresso machine settings will determine the crema.

But (There's always a butt around here, right?), brew temp does play into the color of the crema. Too low and it's blond; too high and it's more brown; just right and the crema is redder.

So you agree with me. :)

Always Kemosabe! ;D
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on February 14, 2012, 07:13:28 AM
Here's proof that Gaggia machines can produce nice shots without modding.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0eLkKwA3QE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0eLkKwA3QE#ws)

All that was done to this Classic was a simple adjustment of the brew pressure.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: roastingnerd on February 14, 2012, 10:07:03 AM
It's been a couple months since I gave up on my machine.  I'll have to invest in a good cleaning with Lemishine dissolved in water and give it another try.  I've seen some posts with picture descriptions of the process for adjusting pressures here and for scrubbing the head so i'll look those up and give it a try in the next couple of weeks.  Right now I'm going to contact Peter to arrange a swap of some of my roasted beans and greens so he can tell me what he thinks.
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: milowebailey on March 18, 2012, 10:50:16 AM
I'm working on a couple Gaggia's right now (upgrading them with all the mods).

My normal supplier of the Silvia steam wands was and has been out of stock for quite a while.  I found a new supplier that has them for a few dollars less.

http://espressocare.com (http://espressocare.com)

So if you are looking for them....
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on March 18, 2012, 12:18:55 PM
1st Line also has Silvia wands. (http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=quickbuy&item=10-049-046&type=store)

And here's a good source for Gaggia spare parts. (http://store.electra-craft.com/catalog/category/5059898)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: PozzSka on March 21, 2012, 12:16:36 PM
Tex, I was reading on the Gaggia group stuff, and there are four mods typically talked about...the OPV, the SPV, the steam wand, and the PID. Correct?

I have already done the Silva steam wand, easy.
I have a Gaggia Classic, so it should have the adjustable Pressure valve correct? I just need a gauge with which to measure and calibrate for 9bar.
The SPV on my Classic doesn't have the little ball valve thing to mod...should I replace the SPV altogether and do the mod, or just leave it as is. (I have  THIS ONE (http://www.cerinicoffee.com/Steam_valve_classic_gaggia.html)  Should I replace it with THIS ONE (http://www.cerinicoffee.com/Steam_valve_gaggia.html) and mod it?)
The PID, I haven't started that yet, but I forsee no issues.

Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on March 21, 2012, 12:41:53 PM
The Classic, Baby, and older aluminum boiler Gaggia models, do not have self-priming valves. For a gauge, check out your local Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/200-psi-filled-gauge-68251.html).

You'll also need a brass elbow (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=48861), a brass hex reducer (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=998080865), and a roll of PTFE pipe tape (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=4237624).
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on March 22, 2012, 10:42:58 AM
A Gaggia Espresso: 2012-03-22: Pete's Gaggia Espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCwdOzsWjDk#ws)

This is the 1st shot pulled after modding& tuning. Mods included; 1) SPV fix, and 2) Classic OPV to replace OEM water inlet. Total cost to rebuild & modify = $72. This included replacement of worn parts.

Pressure was adjusted to 10 bar static pressure: 2012-03-22: Pete's Gaggia Espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urk64AzpGOE#ws)

Temp was checked using styrofoam cup test and was within operating tolerances.

A PID would add flexibility as far as beginning temp, but would add ~$160 to the machine cost. This is a good example of an excellent shot pulled with a very inexpensive espresso machine.
Title: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: PozzSka on March 22, 2012, 08:13:32 PM
Found a 300psi gauge and aforementioned fittings at the home depot...hope to have my regular portafilter back from my little sister tomorrow or this weekend. To test the pressure.

PID kit from Auber on the way as well!!
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: Tex on July 12, 2012, 11:06:23 AM
nada
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: HeartsKing on May 23, 2013, 11:51:15 AM
Finally did the SPV fix and added adjustable OPV; also, changed out portafter ring and did some general cleaning. Will run a descale tomorrow after pipe dope finishes setting. Also, took switch that wasn't working apart and got it working again. Can't wait for tomorrow. I was not able to remove bolts that held the piece that has the SPV to budge, so just did that mod with that piece attached to boiler; do they make a ratchet type hex set?
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: peter on May 23, 2013, 12:03:55 PM
They make sockets that fit on your ratchet, with allen wrenches permanently mounted in those sockets, if that's what you're asking.

Something like this;

(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/b9/b99c69a2-2ffa-4dea-8cb4-fa4628b82aef_300.jpg)
Title: Re: Tuning a Gaggia consumer espresso machine for proper brew pressure & temperature
Post by: HeartsKing on May 23, 2013, 02:08:34 PM
They make sockets that fit on your ratchet, with allen wrenches permanently mounted in those sockets, if that's what you're asking.

Something like this;

([url]http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/b9/b99c69a2-2ffa-4dea-8cb4-fa4628b82aef_300.jpg[/url])


Yeah, a set of those would have been handy yesterday. I'll have to pick some up for my next project.