Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: whattodo on February 05, 2015, 09:50:47 AM
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Sounds interesting. Just wanted to share. http://dailycoffeenews.com/2015/02/04/a-qa-with-the-inventor-of-the-bullet-1kg-roaster-coming-soon-hopefully/ (http://dailycoffeenews.com/2015/02/04/a-qa-with-the-inventor-of-the-bullet-1kg-roaster-coming-soon-hopefully/)
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Interesting...
I've been looking for something to increase my capacity over the Gene. Has anyone looked into the in more detail?
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Looks like the bullet will be demoed at SCAA in Seattle in April. I'm planning on making the trip out. Seeing this new machine in person could prove to be interesting! 8)
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It has been discussed in HB.
I’m a little bit skeptical. Assuming 115V, 15A, the electric heater could only provide ~1800W of heat, no matter what kind of proprietary-patent-pending heating element they use. IDK, unless it has superior insulation layer, and demonstrates an efficient fan (to remove the heat). :D
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IF they kept the heat in, most the machines 'vent' a lot of it away to get rid of smoke etc, the venting is constant, smoke or not. Now if they kind of like your turkey oven, kept the heat in, then Id say its very possible because you don't have to keep replacing the heat lost during air changes. Granted there will be a bit lost thru the sides etc etc. Once it gets going, hits crack etc then start venting to get rid of smoke etc but I can see this being very doable.
Aaron
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It is a very pretty 1Kg roaster with a 3Kg per day recommended capacity limit. Or was that a typo error?
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It is a very pretty 1Kg roaster with a 3Kg per day recommended capacity limit. Or was that a typo error?
they probably concern that the plastic will melt
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Here is the demo video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=uaQkpjsSjcE
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That looks quite impressive. It will be built with all industrial type parts in it. The owner said he didn't want a roaster to last for just a few years.
2 kilos of roaster beans per batch and capable of roasting 3 batches a day; that is not too bad at all. Plugs into a 120 volt socket. has heat and fan adjustments, has built-in compensation for voltage changes, it connects to a PC with a usb port and you can control the roasting with computer software if you choose. All this for 1500-2000 US dollars.
Sounds like if this is ever released it could go to the front of the goto line for home roasters.
:)
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I'd be bummed about the 3 batches per day part. That would infer it needs to cool down between roasts, and that's no fun.
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I have been using my HT-P for about 10 years, now, with very little complaints, but I would be interested in trying something with a bit more control. I really like the look of the prototype, and it looks like you can have as much or little automation as you like. No need to choose between manual or program models. I will be watching. One thing I did not see in the YT introduction, though, was ventilation. Where does all the smoke go?
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Also found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rG6ecLjp8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_rG6ecLjp8)
(just wondering in Benbrook, Texas)
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That looks interesting also Nucer.
I wonder how they compare.
:)
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I wonder how they compare.
:)
Bullet is about $1500, CRF-800 is about $4500.
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Bullet is about $1500, CRF-800 is about $4500.
Hmm ... in that case they are in 2 totally different classes. A small used commercial roaster could be had for around $5000 or thereabouts.
:o
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Bullet is about $1500, CRF-800 is about $4500.
Hmm ... in that case they are in 2 totally different classes. A small used commercial roaster could be had for around $5000 or thereabouts.
:o
Additionally, Bullet is 14 kg, CRF-800 is 45 kg.
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Additionally, Bullet is 14 kg, CRF-800 is 45 kg.
Yeah ... definitely a different class here.
Sounds like the Bullet is more for the home roaster.
:)
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I'm thinking of preordering one. I tried downloading the pdf to do so but it was blank. I would love to be able to roast more beans evenly. I was even considering selling small amounts at our local farmers market. I wonder the bullet could handle it
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I'm thinking of preordering one. I tried downloading the pdf to do so but it was blank. I would love to be able to roast more beans evenly. I was even considering selling small amounts at our local farmers market. I wonder the bullet could handle it
That's great.
Let us know how that works out for you.
:)
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Small amounts like 3 Kg?
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I'm thinking of preordering one. I tried downloading the pdf to do so but it was blank.
There should be ordering page. It looks shipping is free.
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I'm thinking of preordering one. I tried downloading the pdf to do so but it was blank. I would love to be able to roast more beans evenly. I was even considering selling small amounts at our local farmers market. I wonder the bullet could handle it
We don’t know how fast it runs for back to back roasting. If you want to sell small amounts, you have to consider your hourly wage, and your theoretical maximum daily income. ;)
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We don’t know how fast it runs for back to back roasting. If you want to sell small amounts, you have to consider your hourly wage, and your theoretical maximum daily income. ;)
Yeah I've been working the numbers. I don't mind the hours at the market, it'll be the closest to time off from my other businesses I get but time roasting that could be avoided is another thing.
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It is a nice looking machine. You may bring it to the farmer’s market and roast couple batches while waiting for customers. This show piece should attract many people.
However, if you buy decent green beans @ $6.5 per pound, with 15% weight loss, sell roasted @ $16 per pound, you will earn ~$15.5 per 1-kg load. Besides, you will need a power generator. It’s a big toy, a lot of fun, but not efficient. I may get a TJ-067 (or some other bigger boys) at home to do the major roasting job, and show off the Aillio in the market as small batches demos. :P
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There is a separate forum on HRO for the Bullet:
http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewforum.php?forum_id=208 (http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewforum.php?forum_id=208)
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Thank you for posting that link.
:)
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From that forum:
To Whom it May Concern,
I noticed on the technical specs in your brochure that the "Daily Capacity" was 3 kg. That is only 3 full roasts per day. Why the limit on roasting more? Is that a mistake and you really mean "Hourly capacity?
Thanks,
Nate H
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Hi Nate
The reason we write 3KG is because we don't want to advertise the roaster as a 24/7 continuous commercial machine. It was not designed like this.
You can of course roast as much as you like, but some components might have to be replaced pre-maturely. Drum motor, belt, and exhaust fan motor comes to mind.
Nothing is going to overheat or fail if you roast continuously though.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Jonas Lillie
+886 970841470
www.aillio.com (http://www.aillio.com)
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However, if you buy decent green beans @ $6.5 per pound, with 15% weight loss, sell roasted @ $16 per pound, you will earn ~$15.5 per 1-kg load. Besides, you will need a power generator. It’s a big toy, a lot of fun, but not efficient. I may get a TJ-067 (or some other bigger boys) at home to do the major roasting job, and show off the Aillio in the market as small batches demos. :P
That right there is pretty depressing :-D Realistic, but depressing.
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Well it's not necessarily that depressing. The key would be to get some of the people who buy coffee from you to repurchase on a regular basis. If you sell 10 lbs of coffee at a farm market in 6 hours and 1 of those people order more from say your website etc. After one season you'll be selling 25 lb a week before even going to farmers market.
Time costs are the biggest deal. But for me the fun is always in having a hobby that generates money instead of costing it. I also build websites, 3d print, cnc mill so making this one profitable or even break even is great.
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But for me the fun is always in having a hobby that generates money instead of costing it. I also build websites, 3d print, cnc mill so making this one profitable or even break even is great.
I like the way you think.
;)
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I have received answers against my questions from Aillio.
1. Why there is 3kg daily roasting limit? Is back to back roasting not allowed?
The reason we write 3KG is because we don't want to advertise the roaster as a 24/7 continuous commercial machine. It was not designed like this.
What I mean is that the drum motor, belt, and exhaust fan motor have a calculated lifespan, and might fail earlier than what we calculated.
You can of course roast as much as you like, nothing is going to overheat or fail if you roast continuously, and there are many safety features in place to help monitor the roaster.
With the Bullet you start roasting when you reach the desired drum temperature, and typically the drum temp will be higher at the end of the roast, so you will have to wait for it to come down a bit before starting your new batch. You can cool off the drum with the exhaust fan.
Another reason is you need to empty the chaff collector every 2-3 kg, so if you plan on roasting 10 kg / day its not designed to do this.
2. How do you handle smoke and chaff during roasting?
The back of the roaster contains a chaff collector with a filter.
The smoke exits the roaster from the back, and upwards, so you can place it under your kitchen smoke hood.
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2. How do you handle smoke and chaff during roasting?
The back of the roaster contains a chaff collector with a filter.
The smoke exits the roaster from the back, and upwards, so you can place it under your kitchen smoke hood.
So I don't have to roast in my exhausting roasting station in my dungeon(basement)? sounds good to me! Now I'm glad I insisted on having an outside exhausting stove vent instead of those bs recirculating jimjams
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New YouTube video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OdeN7rzYimM
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I can see a number of issues with the Aillio. Took too long to end of drying 150c, chaff collector too small, not enough heat capacity, air/heat adjustments?
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Here's one for you, Rotate Fun 1200
Haven't seen one in person but follow the company.
They use an Archimedes screw inside the drum.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes%27_screw (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes%27_screw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6trTrur_LoQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6trTrur_LoQ)
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Rotate Fun is very popular in Taiwan because it’s cheap, and a first time roaster can easily perceive the changes of sensory cues (color, smell, and sound). However, I wouldn’t recommend it.
As can be seen in the video clip, there are always some beans exposed to the wide open, cooling. I expect these beans will experience extreme hot->cold->hot temperature fluctuation. In addition, this wide opening also renders the fan control ineffective. IIRC, the stock design does not include the variable speed ventilation fan, and I have seen its users trying to install different types of fans or even cyclones. However, even with the aid of a user-installed fan, the cold air will be directly brought into the chamber through the opening, no preheating route.
IMO, the Rotate Fun cannot provide stable heat/fan adjustments, and a serious beginner will quickly outgrow it. :)
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Rotate Fun is very popular in Taiwan because it’s cheap, and a first time roaster can easily perceive the changes of sensory cues (color, smell, and sound). However, I wouldn’t recommend it.
As can be seen in the video clip, there are always some beans exposed to the wide open, cooling.
I was amazed when I saw that - WTF!!!
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Rotate Fun is very popular in Taiwan because it’s cheap, and a first time roaster can easily perceive the changes of sensory cues (color, smell, and sound). However, I wouldn’t recommend it.
As can be seen in the video clip, there are always some beans exposed to the wide open, cooling.
I was amazed when I saw that - WTF!!!
Agree!!!
Never seen any thing like that
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Cheap is good.
Exposed beans is not!
:o
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I would say that the Rotate Fun 300 still has its merit as an entry level roaster. :P When compared to a skillet pan on a stove-top, or a heat gun-dog bowl approach, Rotate Fun 300 can easily handle more beans and the drum does mix those beans well. At its simplest configuration, including one thermometer, RF300 is about US$230. At this price range, it is appealing even compared to a well-equipped popper.
The bigger brother, RF1200 is much more expensive though. Huky 500 is a strong contender at this price range and, IMHO, I don’t see RF1200 hold ground. The skill set developed on a Huky might be still useful when upgrading to a bigger gas-drum roaster. On the other hand, the air flow of the RF1200 could be so distinctive that its roasting characteristics won’t be easily transferable.
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Next time in Taichung I'll stop by Rotate Fun and do a YouTube video. 8)
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I'm trying to find a price on the rf1200
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Here's another one. Had a plan on visiting this roaster, but it was too far out of town without transportation.
1-2-CH3-pro-5(第五代機)咖啡烘焙機 (1.2kg) 烘豆機
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=881RDjUrBPg&index=16&list=LLXeW6wZuLwP5cgp7UwZ_xPA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=881RDjUrBPg&index=16&list=LLXeW6wZuLwP5cgp7UwZ_xPA)
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I'm trying to find a price on the rf1200
Try getting in contact with them on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/RotateFun300 (https://www.facebook.com/RotateFun300)
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I'm trying to find a price on the rf1200
Try these links:
http://clare365.myweb.hinet.net/untitled_8.htm (http://clare365.myweb.hinet.net/untitled_8.htm)
http://www.siangcyuan.com.tw/ (http://www.siangcyuan.com.tw/)
It's NTD48000 on its website, about US$1600. ::)
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Here's another one. Had a plan on visiting this roaster, but it was too far out of town without transportation.
1-2-CH3-pro-5(第五代機)咖啡烘焙機 (1.2kg) 烘豆機
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=881RDjUrBPg&index=16&list=LLXeW6wZuLwP5cgp7UwZ_xPA[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=881RDjUrBPg&index=16&list=LLXeW6wZuLwP5cgp7UwZ_xPA[/url])
I’m not aware of this one. Thanks Hank. They have a CH-6 model coming out. Really interesting. :D
http://youtu.be/JWftumVr2nQ (http://youtu.be/JWftumVr2nQ)
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Your welcome!
Not sure if I mentioned the Cube roaster, I did see that one in person and blogged about the visit at the Syphon cafe in Taipei. The Cube 1.2 roaster's are very limited production and for domestic sales only. And they sell out quickly....
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Looks like the bullet will be demoed at SCAA in Seattle in April. I'm planning on making the trip out. Seeing this new machine in person could prove to be interesting! 8)
Jim, please remember to look at the Bullet Roaster at SCAA and share your opinion about it with us. Thanks
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Looks like the bullet will be demoed at SCAA in Seattle in April. I'm planning on making the trip out. Seeing this new machine in person could prove to be interesting! 8)
Jim, please remember to look at the Bullet Roaster at SCAA and share your opinion about it with us. Thanks
Getting ready to head to the show now! I'll check it out! :)
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Getting ready to head to the show now! I'll check it out! :)
Look forward to your evaluation Jim.
Thanks for doing this.
:)
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Take some video and pics
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I am sorry for being a skeptic, but, I cannot see a 110V machine being able to do 1kg anywhere close to what would look like a 'normal profile'. The 220V maybe with 3500 watts or so, but not 110 unless you have to run it on a 110v 40amp circuit - nothing a normal home would have available. This was my problem which caused me to have to upgrade my home built machine from 1500 watts to 3000 watts. And at 3000 watts I get about 700 grams beans to 440F in about 11:00 at 80% power - which gives me some room to wiggle around at the higher temps. I think this machine would take many, many, minutes longer to reach 1st crack if it could at all at that volume. Even using 100% re-circulation of exhaust air.
Again sorry for the pessimism. It's just that I spent a lot of time and effort designing my roaster and have a good idea about what these machines require for power. Maybe I will be proven wrong :o
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Just watched the video posted on you tube. It was an 800g roast. Do not know what machine it was 110V or 220V (my guess the 220V), but at 12 minutes they were still a good 20 degrees away from first crack and not until 14 minutes were they getting around 1st crack at 405F. And that is where he dropped the roast. That sure seems like a long roast with a low temperature drop to me!
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Just watched the video posted on you tube. It was an 800g roast. Do not know what machine it was 110V or 220V (my guess the 220V), but at 12 minutes they were still a good 20 degrees away from first crack and not until 14 minutes were they getting around 1st crack at 405F. And that is where he dropped the roast. That sure seems like a long roast with a low temperature drop to me!
At the link below, there are couple graphs. However, it is not clear that they are for 110 or 220 volts either. I posted a reply there and asked their input voltage.
http://aillio.com/?p=691 (http://aillio.com/?p=691)
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Just watched the video posted on you tube. It was an 800g roast. Do not know what machine it was 110V or 220V (my guess the 220V), but at 12 minutes they were still a good 20 degrees away from first crack and not until 14 minutes were they getting around 1st crack at 405F. And that is where he dropped the roast. That sure seems like a long roast with a low temperature drop to me!
Just guessing, but Scandinavian roasts tend to be very light. Perhaps they are designing the machine to satisfy Scandinavian tastes. When I first received my Italian made V.B.M., it was set at 11 bars. The factory rep. said, "We Europeans [Italians] like stronger coffee."
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hat hink the roaster's capacity is based on the fact that it uses an induction heating system, which is supposedly much more efficient then a typical resistance-based heating element. I don't know much about these things, but I think our typical conception of what an electrical roaster can do he is different than what this roaster uses.
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A new article about Bullet R1.
http://sprudge.com/is-this-the-cutest-lil-coffee-roaster-in-the-world-75399.html (http://sprudge.com/is-this-the-cutest-lil-coffee-roaster-in-the-world-75399.html)
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Well the bullet is a modern looking machine.... I met the twin brothers that invented and are bringing this machine to market. It will be available this summer and imports from Taiwan.
My initial thoughts are that like Peter I'd like to see how induction heating goes? No sight glass...., hard to clean and must be taken apart..... power? It can only do three batches a day. It has a small footprint, good looking but not traditional, and low energy needs.
I'll grab the spec sheet and gather my thoughts and post more later.
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Thanks for the initial feedback Jim.
Look forward to your future analysis.
:)
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Whattodo, When I look at the plots in the link you provided, it appears they are saying 1st Crack occurs at aprox 383F that sure seems low to me as I always see this occur between 401 and 411F - maybe the bean temp thermocoupler on their unit is off by 20 degrees? I wonder this because it carries through to their 2nd crack which they say is at 428F. That appears to be about 20 degrees low as well.
This is where my build is also listed - my first generation build that is. My current generation 3 roaster build is now using a 3000 watt heating element to give me a larger load and is using Artisan for profiling. Here is the 1st gen link if you like:
I am not saying that it is impossible to get a 1kg load in 12-13 minutes at +/- 440 in 12 minutes with enough insulation and recirculation but it sure is hard for me to believe - especially at 1550 watts. Further, when you look at the temps where they are saying the major markers such as 1st C and 2nd C occur I wonder why they are so far off of what is considered normal.
Peter may be right that induction may be the difference - I am anxious to see more roast profiles and reviews from a neutral party.
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Just watched the video posted on you tube. It was an 800g roast. Do not know what machine it was 110V or 220V (my guess the 220V), but at 12 minutes they were still a good 20 degrees away from first crack and not until 14 minutes were they getting around 1st crack at 405F. And that is where he dropped the roast. That sure seems like a long roast with a low temperature drop to me!
I have been reading about the higher powered roasters, and it seems best to use 220v.
Silly question - is there a simple (and low $$$) way to get 220v in a typical USA home that is wired for 120v? I already use a variac to improve the power for my Hottop roaster (from 116v to 121v at the outlet).
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You already get 240v or just shy of it. You can run a new wire from the breaker box and tap into the additional voltage by using a 240v breaker.
I had to do this for my espresso machine last year and it was far easier than I was expecting.
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Nearly every residential service panel in the US has two 120-volt wires and one neutral wire running to it from the utility company. Each wire powers one “bus†(copper vertical leg) inside the main service panel. That’s why you usually see two columns of breakers (or fuses) when you open your service panel door. The common 120-volt circuits that power everything from your lava lamp to your vacuum cleaner are powered from one of those two buses. The standard 15- or 20-amp circuit breakers work by clipping onto one of the buses. Then the circuit’s hot (red or black) feed wire is clamped to the circuit breaker, while the neutral (white) wire and bare copper ground wire are clamped to the common neutral bar.
The way you get a 240-volt circuit is simple. A “double-pole†circuit breaker is clipped into both 120 buses at the same time, so the voltage to the circuit is doubled. That’s why 240-volt circuits need two hot wires and a neutral to carry the electricity to the appliance, plus a ground wire.
With a 240V circuit the 2 120V legs are cycling opposite each other at 60htz in the US. The wiring to a receptacle and the receptacle itself requires special wiring considerations to be in code compliance.
WARNING: PLEASE HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN TO DO THIS WORK IF YOU HAVE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE AND ARE NOT TRAINED IN THIS AREA - this can be very dangerous and could easily kill you if you are not exactly sure of what you are doing!!!!!!!!!
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WARNING: PLEASE HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN TO DO THIS WORK IF YOU HAVE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE AND ARE NOT TRAINED IN THIS AREA - this can be very dangerous and could easily kill you if you are not exactly sure of what you are doing!!!!!!!!!
I am not very hardware-savvy, so I would definitely use an electrician. Thank you for the detailed explanation!
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There is no neutral in a 240 circuit, only two conductors and a ground.
As was mentioned above, there are additional considerations for safety and code compliance.
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You'll get 4 wires out of a typical US 240V appliance though, and one of them is more neutral than ground, the other is more ground than neutral. Web search will turn up thousands of questions and attempted answers for this issue. I like propane.
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You'll get 4 wires out of a typical US 240V appliance though, and one of them is more neutral than ground, the other is more ground than neutral. Web search will turn up thousands of questions and attempted answers for this issue. I like propane.
The plug on an electric range or dryer only has three prongs on it.
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You have an older plug peter. New ones have four
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You have an older plug peter. New ones have four
Huh. That's interesting... I guess I'm old, and all my stuff is old too. But I learned something today, so I have that going for me. :-)
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Any news on he Bullet? My HT control board is getting mighty flaky, and I may soon have a need (read: excuse) to find a replacement. (No, don't tell me how easy it is to replace the board!)
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I placed my pre-order. ;D It looks like shipping will start in January 2016.
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I placed my pre-order. ;D It looks like shipping will start in January 2016.
Congrats! Looking forward to your updates as you learn your new toy!
I looked the bullet over with great detail out in Seattle at the SCAA. It will be good to get a hands on feedback from a member here. Good luck! Jim
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I placed my pre-order. ;D It looks like shipping will start in January 2016.
I'm interested as well. It looks interestingly different. I like that it doesn't resemble a miniature commercial roaster. However I am not sure why the Probat Sample roaster design hasn't been made bigger, I think that would be an interesting concept.
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I placed my pre-order. ;D It looks like shipping will start in January 2016.
Congrats!!!! Completely jealous. I wanted to pre-order one as well, but the wife thought I was going a little nuts on coffee supplies lately (maybe she's right :-X)
Please let us know your thoughts as you start to use it.
Good luck and happy roasting
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It's official now. http://www.facebook.com/events/147512665608597/ (http://www.facebook.com/events/147512665608597/)
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Maybe the first detailed review.
http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?topic=9242.0 (http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?topic=9242.0)
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Nice article. thanks for sharing!
When I saw the roaster last spring at SCAA in Seattle one of my concerns was tear down and cleaning.....? It will be nice to see later reviews after the roaster has been used for a longer period of time and someone has gotten into the guts for cleaning....
All in all is looks like there might be a nice new alternative for home roasters!?
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Thanks Jim. It looks more robust now.
Aillio just announced that pre-order will be ended on Jan 10th.
http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d3e63b3e46104e3c90a9cdfaa&id=8e94201e89 (http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d3e63b3e46104e3c90a9cdfaa&id=8e94201e89)
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Pre-order just submitted!
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Pre-order just submitted!
Great... Welcome on board... It will be nice to share profiles for GCBC greens.
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Pre-order just submitted!
Congrats Yasbean!
So exciting. I hope the dream is true and it lives up to the hype. I see your in michigan. would you be willing to demonstrate the machine for members local to you? I live in philly so to far for me but others might be interested?
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Oops! I forgot to update my profile. I moved to NorCal over a year ago. Sorry!
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If I were to preorder one, do you think there would be a roasting advantage in ordering it for 220v instead of 120v?
kp
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Order 220, less power consumption.
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Order 220, less power consumption.
Plus one!
More power is always better.
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So, do you intend to hardwire it, or put a special plug on it?
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Running a dedicated 220v circuit and changing the plug to fit it if necessary would not be a problem. After studying their site, I see now that there would be no advantage to choosing 220v over 120v AC. The roaster is set to run at 1500 watts no matter if the voltage is 120v or 220v. It will draw just under 7 amps if wired for 220v and just under 13 amps if wired for 120v. It's the same amount of energy used, 1500 watts regardless of the input voltage it is wired for.
kp
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I just bit the bullet and placed my pre-order. ;D I went with the 220v model as I read in another blog that the electronics run slightly cooler and the fan is a little quieter.
kp
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I just bit the bullet and placed my pre-order. ;D I went with the 220v model as I read in another blog that the electronics run slightly cooler and the fan is a little quieter.
kp
Congrats.... Good timing....
Jan 10th is the end date for pre-ordering.
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Aillio has updated their Facebook page and added some great shots from the assembly area. Things are moving.
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I am going to have to start cleaning up my HT-P and getting it listed. ;D
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I am going to have to start cleaning up my HT-P and getting it listed. ;D
Sounds that one more order is approaching. :D
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New shots were posted at Aillio's Facebook. They are close to finish the assembly.