Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: rfeuker on November 03, 2008, 07:53:19 AM
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Just picked up a used Gino Rossi RR45 grinder on e-bay. Seller describes it as needing a good cleaning. I am totally new to these grinders (and hopefully not over my head). I'd appreciate any help on do's and don'ts foe a thorough cleaning. Also, if I needed to replace the burrs (seller says I don't) is that a difficult task? Are the burrs available?
Duh! I should have asked all of this BEFORE I bought, but what can I say, I'm impulsive.
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very easy, grind raw white rice. But you should first just disassemble it, take a small brush and shop vac to it. If it were me I would buy it some new burrs.
edit: you will probably want to disable the auto doser refill or have some way to change it to manual.
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It's easy to clean, burrs are easy to replace. Good choice. They are great, heavy duty grinders.
Take it all apart. The doser comes off with a couple screws, the hopper unscrews and once off you can look at the burrs.
You can get burrs there are photos on this link when I cleaned mine a few months ago.
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3482.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3482.0)
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I have one of these and all of the parts (including burr sets) you might need are available and at reasonable prices. A set of burrs is supposed to last for 600 pounds of beans. http://www.espressoparts.com/product/MC_66/MC_66__Rossi_RR4545A_Espresso_Grinder_Burrs.html (http://www.espressoparts.com/product/MC_66/MC_66__Rossi_RR4545A_Espresso_Grinder_Burrs.html)
If yours is like mine you'll have a big cleaning job on your hands. Fortunately, the web site I linked to has a couple of exploded diagrams that should help you out if you forget how something goes back together.
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I have an RR45 too, and they're good machines. Mine only gets used for the few customers who want their beans ground, so it's not my daily grinder. Depending on your plans for yours, you may get by like Joe said and just run some rice thru it. Just make sure you cook it 'til it's tender so you don't dull the burrs. ;)
If you don't need the doser, they're easy to convert to doserless. Milowebailey hooked me up w/ a piece of 4" PVC as a faceplate, and if you're going that route we can post some pics.
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If you don't need the doser, they're easy to convert to doserless. Milowebailey hooked me up w/ a piece of 4" PVC as a faceplate, and if you're going that route we can post some pics.
pics are in this thread if you choose to go doserless.
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3482.0
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you may get by like Joe said and just run some rice thru it. Just make sure you cook it 'til it's tender so you don't dull the burrs. ;)
rice wont dull the burrs just go for it, cooked rice would be a sticky mess.
Joe
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If you don't need the doser, they're easy to convert to doserless. Milowebailey hooked me up w/ a piece of 4" PVC as a faceplate, and if you're going that route we can post some pics.
pics are in this thread if you choose to go doserless.
[url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3482.0[/url]
don't do it....this could end up in HT pretty quickly. Doserless is half a grinder ;D
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You guys are fantastic. Thanks for all the tips. I've ordered new burrs and will disassemble as much as I dare to for cleaning. The diagrams on the espresso parts website shold be real helpful if I stumble putting it back together. Trouble is I'm an accountant, not an engineer - takes me hours to underdstand even those simple diagrams :).
Just a short dumb question. I should run the rice through before I put in the new burrs, right? Or is the point of the rice to clean the burrs????
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If you don't need the doser, they're easy to convert to doserless. Milowebailey hooked me up w/ a piece of 4" PVC as a faceplate, and if you're going that route we can post some pics.
pics are in this thread if you choose to go doserless.
[url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3482.0[/url]
don't do it....this could end up in HT pretty quickly. Doserless is half a grinder ;D
Yes, but a half a Rossi is still way better than many grinders out there! ;D
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You guys are fantastic. Thanks for all the tips. I've ordered new burrs and will disassemble as much as I dare to for cleaning. The diagrams on the espresso parts website shold be real helpful if I stumble putting it back together. Trouble is I'm an accountant, not an engineer - takes me hours to underdstand even those simple diagrams :).
Just a short dumb question. I should run the rice through before I put in the new burrs, right? Or is the point of the rice to clean the burrs????
If you are going to disassemble it... my advice, contrary to Joe's ;D is just clean it good while it's apart.
Take some photos before you disassemble anything and as you go along. Photos may be more helpful than the diagram. You can pull the doser off and clean it without fully disassembling it. It's 3 screws to remove the doser. You can soak it in hot soapy water to clean it up. Rinse it really, really well.
On the bottom there are 4 screws that you can pull the motor out if you want then clean the whole housing in hot soapy water (don't put the motor in the water).
If you only want to replace the burrs, then use the rice before you replace the burrs. Then just unscrew the hopper (depress the adjustment lever and twist counterclockwise). Don't loose the adjusting lever or spring once the hopper is off. Once the hopper is off, the Burrs come off with 6 screws (3 for each burr). You could use a small brush and shopvac to clean out the old coffee.
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the only part that is contrary to our advise is the removing and keeping removed doser part.
1. I suggest that if you plan on just cleaning the machine you can remove the top burr and vacuum out everything.
2. If you don't even want to attempt that run some white rice through it and vacuum out the doser.
3. If you want to go hardcore you can disassemble it replace the Burrs ($40) clean and vacuum everything using a needle to scrape all the narrow channels and stuck grounds, reassemble and revert to mainenance cleaning mode.
4. last choice not recommended, make a clumping static cling monster by removing the doser and always have to be hovering around you grinder while you could be getting other things on your espresso machine prepared for your masterpiece.
Joe
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4. last choice not recommended, make a clumping static cling monster by removing the doser and always have to be hovering around you grinder while you could be getting other things on your espresso machine prepared for your masterpiece.
Joe
Introducing the Never-Clump-Doser-Removal mod;
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Even if it were true (not yet convinced) you still have to be standing over your grinder while it is grinding. Why would you want to do that? Unless you were grinding into a bag at a grocery store the Doser is an incredible convenience. You grind the beans they go into the doser, meanwhile you can pull some blank shots and warm your espresso glass, you can prepare your porta filter and then at your convenience you can dose!! Amazing. I am shocked anyone would want to remove this ability it never made sense to me.
Joe
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Mine only gets used for the few customers who want their beans ground, so it's not my daily grinder. Depending on your plans for yours, you may get by like Joe said and just run some rice thru it. Just make sure you cook it 'til it's tender so you don't dull the burrs. ;)
If you don't need the doser, they're easy to convert to doserless. Milowebailey hooked me up w/ a piece of 4" PVC as a faceplate, and if you're going that route we can post some pics.
First sentence says it all.
Plus the cooked rice kept clogging up the doser. ;)
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Even if it were true (not yet convinced) you still have to be standing over your grinder while it is grinding. Why would you want to do that? Unless you were grinding into a bag at a grocery store the Doser is an incredible convenience. You grind the beans they go into the doser, meanwhile you can pull some blank shots and warm your espresso glass, you can prepare your porta filter and then at your convenience you can dose!! Amazing. I am shocked anyone would want to remove this ability it never made sense to me.
Joe
If you only want to grind enough for one shot, with a doser you really can't. You end up grinding too little or too much, so you end up either waisting coffee or letting it sit for the next day in the doser (yuck) .....
If I'm only pulling a shot or two. Waiting 10 second, standing by my grinder is no big deal. It works out well for me.
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4. last choice not recommended, make a clumping static cling monster by removing the doser and always have to be hovering around you grinder while you could be getting other things on your espresso machine prepared for your masterpiece.
Joe
Introducing the Never-Clump-Doser-Removal mod;
Peter
Is the clothespin to hold your chopsticks?
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Even if it were true (not yet convinced) you still have to be standing over your grinder while it is grinding. Why would you want to do that? Unless you were grinding into a bag at a grocery store the Doser is an incredible convenience. You grind the beans they go into the doser, meanwhile you can pull some blank shots and warm your espresso glass, you can prepare your porta filter and then at your convenience you can dose!! Amazing. I am shocked anyone would want to remove this ability it never made sense to me.
Joe
If you only want to grind enough for one shot, with a doser you really can't. You end up grinding too little or too much, so you end up either waisting coffee or letting it sit for the next day in the doser (yuck) .....
If I'm only pulling a shot or two. Waiting 10 second, standing by my grinder is no big deal. It works out well for me.
False on all accounts. If you open the lid to the doser you can watch the amounts falling in and stop the grinder at just the right amount if you are extremely anal about not losing a grain of ground coffee. You also have the freedom to grind away by opening the hopper gate and closing when you think it's about right and waste a few teaspoons for those of us not as concerned. I have seen more waste from doserless models spraying coffee everywhere while adjusting the grounds or going too far and now you have no where to sweep the grounds. With a doser you can distribute right over the doser and really have the best of both worlds as you can use the swept grounds for the next shot. It's nice using the lid of the doser upside down resting on the forks to dose all remaining grounds out of the doser so no yucky day old grounds remain-really easy and all the yuky grounds are contained and not all over the counter. Another option is to mark on the outside of your hopper or take mental notes of how much coffee = a shot, double, triple approximately. luckily for me the Mazzer hopper has Vanes give me an approximate mark. Or you could keep your beans in the hopper for a week-Yuk :P I would bet money that you stand longer than 10 sec over your grinder and then you have to make sure you have a bucket to perform your distribution over and if you do the Weiss method forget about it. Chris tried to convince me of the doserless and I watched him switch back, the only benefit is for what Peter is using it for which is to grind a lb for someone into a bag.
Joe
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Having the doser on a home machine generally sucks, IMHO. I've purchased the stuff to replicate your doserless mod, Milowebailey, but haven't got around to it.
What I generally do is measure enough beans into the empty hopper for however many shots I plan on making right away and then immediately sweep out the doser with a paint brush to get it all out. Kind of a pain, but I'm used to it. I have a small glass bowl with a tight fitting lid that I dose into and I almost never dose into the portafilter as I'm usually trying to get it warmed up in the machine as I'm grinding the beans.
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Chopsticks? Did you say CHOPSTICKS?!? Are you trying to start something, buster? ;D You think just because I'm Asian I know where all the Chinese restaurants are? ;D
Clothespin holds the bag, so I can do like Joe said, and take care of something else for the 2min37sec. it takes to run a pound through.
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Having the doser on a home machine generally sucks, IMHO. I
Now I agree that Dosers on cheaper home model grinders are almost comical. Some I have seen actually turn the grinder when you are using the dosing handle because they are so light. But on heavy commercial grinders IMO they are a blessing.
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Clothespin holds the bag, so I can do like Joe said, and take care of something else for the 2min37sec. it takes to run a pound through.
The bag of white rice? Do you grind it and then reuse it? ;D
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False on all accounts. If you open the lid to the doser you can watch the amounts falling in and stop the grinder at just the right amount if you are extremely anal about not losing a grain of ground coffee. You also have the freedom to grind away by opening the hopper gate and closing when you think it's about right and waste a few teaspoons for those of us not as concerned. I have seen more waste from doserless models spraying coffee everywhere while adjusting the grounds or going too far and now you have no where to sweep the grounds. With a doser you can distribute right over the doser and really have the best of both worlds as you can use the swept grounds for the next shot. It's nice using the lid of the doser upside down resting on the forks to dose all remaining grounds out of the doser so no yucky day old grounds remain-really easy and all the yuky grounds are contained and not all over the counter. Another option is to mark on the outside of your hopper or take mental notes of how much coffee = a shot, double, triple approximately. luckily for me the Mazzer hopper has Vanes give me an approximate mark. Or you could keep your beans in the hopper for a week-Yuk :P I would bet money that you stand longer than 10 sec over your grinder and then you have to make sure you have a bucket to perform your distribution over and if you do the Weiss method forget about it. Chris tried to convince me of the doserless and I watched him switch back, the only benefit is for what Peter is using it for which is to grind a lb for someone into a bag.
Joe
Hmmm, well when I got my grinder the doser was broken so I converted it to doserless.... per a suggestion from one of our Admins... After I did the mod Herr Peter sent me his doser and I have never put it on....
I see your point... as I do have to clean a minimal amount of coffee up off the counter, dog, floor.... so maybe I'll put it back on and try it... It's only 3 screws.. I'll try it and see if I like it any better.
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Having the doser on a home machine generally sucks, IMHO. I
Now I agree that Dosers on cheaper home model grinders are almost comical. Some I have seen actually turn the grinder when you are using the dosing handle because they are so light. But on heavy commercial grinders IMO they are a blessing.
Well, I wasn't really referring to a consumer model when I said "home machine." Mine is a Rossi RR45, too. My gripe with the doser is the 3-6 grams of coffee left in it every time you grind some coffee, which means you have to clean out each time. And since I can never get my wife to remember to to do it after she uses it, I have to clean it out the stale old coffee in there before I can use it most times, too.
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Mod on brother, mod on.
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Having the doser on a home machine generally sucks, IMHO. I
Now I agree that Dosers on cheaper home model grinders are almost comical. Some I have seen actually turn the grinder when you are using the dosing handle because they are so light. But on heavy commercial grinders IMO they are a blessing.
Well, I wasn't really referring to a consumer model when I said "home machine." Mine is a Rossi RR45, too. My gripe with the doser is the 3-6 grams of coffee left in it every time you grind some coffee, which means you have to clean out each time. And since I can never get my wife to remember to to do it after she uses it, I have to clean it out the stale old coffee in there before I can use it most times, too.
??? when I use mine there isn't any more grounds than are left over from static clinged grounds, If I am being anal like during cupping I have a little brush and it makes it all go away with a few sweeps and a merry go round in the doser. I have seen people cut a packaging foam piece the size of one of the dose sections and it sweeps everything out without using a brush it works great and doesn't fall out.
Joe
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Interesting. I guess mine has more static electricity going on than yours. Maybe the wire "sweeper thingy" (excuse the technical jargon :)) on mine isn't the best either.
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Interesting. I guess mine has more static electricity going on than yours. Maybe the wire "sweeper thingy" (excuse the technical jargon :)) on mine isn't the best either.
Those are useless unless you are filling up your doser. I have a Mazzer Super Jolly so it's slightly different.
Joe
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False on all accounts. If you open the lid to the doser you can watch the amounts falling in and stop the grinder at just the right amount if you are extremely anal about not losing a grain of ground coffee. You also have the freedom to grind away by opening the hopper gate and closing when you think it's about right and waste a few teaspoons for those of us not as concerned. I have seen more waste from doserless models spraying coffee everywhere while adjusting the grounds or going too far and now you have no where to sweep the grounds. With a doser you can distribute right over the doser and really have the best of both worlds as you can use the swept grounds for the next shot. It's nice using the lid of the doser upside down resting on the forks to dose all remaining grounds out of the doser so no yucky day old grounds remain-really easy and all the yuky grounds are contained and not all over the counter. Another option is to mark on the outside of your hopper or take mental notes of how much coffee = a shot, double, triple approximately. luckily for me the Mazzer hopper has Vanes give me an approximate mark. Or you could keep your beans in the hopper for a week-Yuk :P I would bet money that you stand longer than 10 sec over your grinder and then you have to make sure you have a bucket to perform your distribution over and if you do the Weiss method forget about it. Chris tried to convince me of the doserless and I watched him switch back, the only benefit is for what Peter is using it for which is to grind a lb for someone into a bag.
Joe
Hmmm, well when I got my grinder the doser was broken so I converted it to doserless.... per a suggestion from one of our Admins... After I did the mod Herr Peter sent me his doser and I have never put it on....
I see your point... as I do have to clean a minimal amount of coffee up off the counter, dog, floor.... so maybe I'll put it back on and try it... It's only 3 screws.. I'll try it and see if I like it any better.
Give it a good go and you might like it better. When I got my Mazzer it was the brand new cool thing to switch to doserless and everyone at coffeegeek was spending $150+ to switch their Mazzers to the grocery style doserless kits. I had always wanted a commercial grinder w/doser and all so I didn't fall into the trap. Chris' arrived he had to make some mods and I got to see his in action a few times. There were instances where I had to grind a lb or 2 for someone who wanted preground and I saw the advantage for that, but other than that I couldn't see any benefit. Then people started to complain about static and clumping on HB, and people started coming up with fixes like grinding into a Styrofoam cup to break up the clumps, then it started coming around that if you had just kept your doser on you wouldn't have any issues. full circle.
Joe
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I have seen people cut a packaging foam piece the size of one of the dose sections and it sweeps everything out without using a brush it works great and doesn't fall out.
Our NS MCF doser leaves hardly a trace behind, assuming you work it through the whole dose cycle. I wonder if there's an adjustment issue, and the partitions on some of these dosers aren't flush with the bottom?
I thought at first you all must be talking about the throat, between the burrs and the doser, where we do get a teaspoon or so of grounds, as I guess may happen with any grinder. Doser or not, I'd want easy access to the throat to get that stuff out - sometimes it's decaf.
We pour a single dose in the hopper. We can estimate that as well or better than a untamped mound in the portafilter, and that's how it's going to be anyway if the next dose will be a different coffee. I've used a doser-less Solis, didn't like that.
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OK. Just got home today and spent a few hours cleaning up this grinder (I hope I can get the doser back together). I'm having trouble getting the old burrs off. Anybody know any tricks. I'd sure hate to strip those screw heads.
BTW - Another newbie question. The top and bottom burrs appear to be identical. Is this right? In otherords I can't put the tops on the bottoms.
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OK. Just got home today and spent a few hours cleaning up this grinder (I hope I can get the doser back together). I'm having trouble getting the old burrs off. Anybody know any tricks. I'd sure hate to strip those screw heads.
BTW - Another newbie question. The top and bottom burrs appear to be identical. Is this right? In otherords I can't put the tops on the bottoms.
I didn't have any problem getting mine off. Make sure you have a good screwdriver of the right size. You may want to tap the end of the screwdriver with a block of wood. (tap, not pound) ;D
The burrs are the same. No top or bottom.
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Leverage is your friend. Get a bigger screw driver, Even if you strip the top you can get screws for cheap.
Joe
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I managed to remove the top burrs, but the bottom ones just won't budge. Staying with Joe's theme - I just can't get enough leverage.
The screw tops were a little stripped when I started and I'm just making them worse. Is there a way to the bottom set of burrs off of the machine? I've been wedging a screwdriver in there trying to keep the burr carrier still. It works after a fashion, but I think I could get much better leverage on my workbench (ok, kitchen counter). I took the bolt off the top of the carrier, but that didn't seem to be the answer. I'm on my way to my local hardware store to see if he has some better tool for stripped/frozen screw removal.
Plan B. If I can't manage to get them out, is there a problem with only replacing one set. The ones in there really aren't bad. Fact is, they didn't really NEED to be replaced. I just thought it would be a good idea with a used grinder. I know this is just putting the problem off for another day (or owner), but I've got a brand new Silvia and I really want to try it with this new grinder ARRGGGGH!
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One thing that's help me in the past to remove stubborn screws is to give the end of the screwdriver a few good whacks with a hammer before trying to turn the screws out. This helps break the breads loose and also seats the screwdriver into the head so you can get a better bite on it. You probably don't want to over do whacking, though, and to be safe you should wedge some bits of wood under the burr carrier to absorb the shock.
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Yeah when I first got my Starbucks Mazzer the bottom Burr was really cemented on there as well. I remember really putting all of my weight on top of my screw driver and having something to hold it while I made the turns. They have some special tools to remove unstuck screws like reverse thread drill bits etc.. But just make sure any oils etc..are food safe no WD-40. You can't feel check the sharpness of your burrs so feeling them as sharp is useless.
Joe
edit: tapping the back of the screw driver with a hammer prior to a turn is a good Idea as Grinderz recommended, I wouldn't worry about messing it up, these things are really built to with stand a lot.
Another trick it to put some heat on the screw usually a propane torch works pretty good, just make sure it doesn't melt any plastic.
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On your rossi the bottom burrs are attached to the motor, so don't hammer too hard on your screwdriver. The Motor will want to spin too which makes it even tougher. You can remove the bottom 4 screws in the grinder housing and pull the motor out for better leverage. It's a simple operation and not too difficult to put back in. Once out you could put the motor in a vise with wood blocks and that would hold it steady. If you can find one an impact screwdriver will work well. As you strike the end with a hammer gears turn the tip.
(http://ted-kyte.com/3D/Pictures/Screwdriver%20Impact.jpg)
I have one.... got it from Harbor Freight years ago. Maybe you can find one at your local hardware store.
You can get a screwdriver tip socket and try a ratchet or breaker bar... the tough part about that too is holding the motor from turning.
(http://imageserver.isnweb.com/scwdrbt.jpg)
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Help!!!!!
This is turning into a nightmare. I've decide to forgo the burr repalcement until next month when I will be visiting a handyman friend who has every tool known to man (including an impact screwdriver).
I was being so damn thorough in cleaning the doser that I went too far in taking it apart. I unscrewed the nut that secures the bottom portion of the doser to the grinder body (the one that needs an allen wrench). Before I knew it, more importantly before I saw the "before", the doser handle, a cam, and a washer, were on my kitchen table. Thank goodness the spring stayed in place but I have no idea where it gets attached. I am lost in trying to put this back togther.
I have the diagrams that were on the esprossoparts website, but I'm not sure they show every part or if they show in the proper order. I put it back together from what I thought I saw on the diagram, but in the end the shaft was not high enough to screw on the adjustment bolt or cap, and the whole bottom portion is unstable.
Can any of you guys who have this machine tell me the order that I put the items back on the shaft? Also I have one of the cams within the cifrcle at the end of the doser handle, is this right? Looks like that pin (and spring) engages the cam ok.
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I ran into something like when putting mine back together. I had to push down and jiggle the shaft around from the top to get it to go down far enough to let me get all the bottom parts on. It was hanging up on something. Another thing that bit me was getting the two cogged wheels situated the right-side-up and also figuring out how to hook up the return spring on the dosing lever.
Let us know if you are still stuck.
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Look at the photos from my cleanup job... maybe that will help. I can also take more photos too if you like.
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I just found this publication (http://www.coffee.com.au/ftp/Grinder_Adjustment.pdf) on adjustments to the Rossi
There are a few good tips that would apply to all espresso grinders.