Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: staylor on July 12, 2010, 03:28:38 PM
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I helped my neighbor carry the Brewtus over to his kitchen this morning and spent 2hrs teaching him how to pull shots, steam milk, do maintenance and cleaning and such. After a bunch of demos I stepped back and let him do an A-Z effort (with a bit of coaching over his shoulder) he pulled a 17gm, 1.25oz, 26sec shot of a 6 day old Brazil/Costa Rican blend which I roasted for the Brewtus, we both sipped it and I can say it was... fantastic. He is well and truly ruined now that his first shot was so good. ;-)
On to the lever scene...
While banging around the Internet I've been looking for video of someone (anyone) pulling shots on a lever machine. There are very few lever action shots out there and it's almost a complete void when it comes to vids of PVL lever action (not shot glass action) and I'd be pretty happy if someone has a vid reference out there that they could post up. Eventually I'll get to the big crema shot glass close-ups, for now I wanted to grab some footage of what I'm doing (right or wrong) at the lever end.
Here's the video for historical reference, I'm sure to change my technique over the weeks to come. Remember that it's only been three days of working with this machine and I've come a long way since I first thought "Lever, yeah lever, I think I'll get a lever someday". Having said that, as far as I've come in a short period of time I realize I've only taken a couple of baby steps down the lever path.
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 2 group lever action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTyFeq8Kro#)
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Here is a contribution for you Shaun if you have not seen it already:
Enjoy!
Ok ... lever video postings not needed.
:-X
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That basket looks super deep.
Must be an illusion based on the shot volume and in comparison to the wider 58mm.
But it looks really deep in the vid.
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Thanks MP, I've seen those PVL vids previously, I'm only interested in the lever action side of the house right now and the bottom one you posted is the only one I've ever seen that shows lever work. The only one, how crazy is that.
I'd seen the top Pavoni vid previously, I don't know much about that particular machine other than it seems he pays a lot of attention to detail but that shot pulls waaaaaay too fast, almost instantly as compared to everything else I've seen... but what do I know.
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That basket looks super deep.
Must be an illusion based on the shot volume and in comparison to the wider 58mm.
But it looks really deep in the vid.
Super deep is one of its strengths I think. It allows a pretty wide window of forgiveness.
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Thanks MP, I've seen those PVL vids previously, I'm only interested in the lever action side of the house right now and the bottom one you posted is the only one I've ever seen that shows lever work. The only one, how crazy is that.
I'd seen the top Pavoni vid previously, I don't know much about that particular machine other than it seems he pays a lot of attention to detail but that shot pulls waaaaaay too fast, almost instantly as compared to everything else I've seen... but what do I know.
Shaun ... I got rid of the PVL vidoes for you and the first Pavoni one. If you find the others of no use ... I'll dust them off also.
;)
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Thanks MP, I've seen those PVL vids previously, I'm only interested in the lever action side of the house right now and the bottom one you posted is the only one I've ever seen that shows lever work. The only one, how crazy is that.
I'd seen the top Pavoni vid previously, I don't know much about that particular machine other than it seems he pays a lot of attention to detail but that shot pulls waaaaaay too fast, almost instantly as compared to everything else I've seen... but what do I know.
Shaun ... I got rid of the PVL vidoes for you and the first Pavoni one. If you find the others of no use ... I dust them off also.
;)
They may have been of use to someone else... thinking of buying a lever... like John... or whoever. ;-)
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Thanks MP, I've seen those PVL vids previously, I'm only interested in the lever action side of the house right now and the bottom one you posted is the only one I've ever seen that shows lever work. The only one, how crazy is that.
I'd seen the top Pavoni vid previously, I don't know much about that particular machine other than it seems he pays a lot of attention to detail but that shot pulls waaaaaay too fast, almost instantly as compared to everything else I've seen... but what do I know.
Shaun ... I got rid of the PVL vidoes for you and the first Pavoni one. If you find the others of no use ... I dust them off also.
;)
They may have been of use to someone else... thinking of buying a lever... like John... or whoever. ;-)
So I should lose them?
???
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Thanks MP, I've seen those PVL vids previously, I'm only interested in the lever action side of the house right now and the bottom one you posted is the only one I've ever seen that shows lever work. The only one, how crazy is that.
I'd seen the top Pavoni vid previously, I don't know much about that particular machine other than it seems he pays a lot of attention to detail but that shot pulls waaaaaay too fast, almost instantly as compared to everything else I've seen... but what do I know.
Shaun ... I got rid of the PVL vidoes for you and the first Pavoni one. If you find the others of no use ... I dust them off also.
;)
They may have been of use to someone else... thinking of buying a lever... like John... or whoever. ;-)
So I should lose them?
???
Choose one of the following:
A) Yes.
B) No.
C) You decide.
D) One of the above.
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Choose one of the following:
A) Yes.
B) No.
C) You decide.
D) One of the above.
Hahahaha!
A Staylorism. ;D
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Here's the milk steaming angle, it makes great milk but it's a bit different than the BII and I'm still learning to drive it in the cup.
Ponte Vecchio Lusso steaming power (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGnPphioIo#)
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This vid should have preceeded the vid above, here it is anyway.
Another shot on the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEWKlwE_Xik#)
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Are you feeling ok for now with that portafilter dressed up like a Pentecostal woman or is it getting to you?
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Here's the milk pour. You'll notice all 3oz's go in the cup and you'll also notice my sloppy driving skills on this pour.
Ponte Vecchio Lusso milk pour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-omF_E_In8#)
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Are you feeling ok for now with that portafilter dressed up like a Pentecostal woman or is it getting to you?
It's like a sharp stick in the eye, I would have hit it with the Dremel already... if the Dremel could do it. Wonder if I could just kick it off.
I've gotta find a friend with something sharp and spinning.
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It's like a sharp stick in the eye, I would have hit it with the Dremel already... if the Dremel could do it.
;D
The Dremel can do it with the right tips but it ain't too pretty unless you have a way better touch than I do.
Probably better in the long run to either hold off for a better option or hit Orphan for a professional job.
Looking at your vids here has me both excited and nervous at the same time. I suppose if you had started banging out pure gold in 24 hours it would have actually put me off the machine in a lot of ways... I'm sure you understand.
However looking at what you have going there right now is only serving to be the "reel" I was hoping it would be. 8)
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Dude, you are going to sooooo dig it. I can see a big piece of the path stretched out in front of me, I can't see the details but I can see the path and it's really good.
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Waiting isn't fun I tell ya.
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Do you have any thoughts yet on a one pull straight shot?
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Do you have any thoughts yet on a one pull straight shot?
I do, in fact for the first two days that's all I pulled.
As I understand it, the PVL puts out .5oz per lever pull, to get the 1oz you see in the vid you need to pull the lever twice. But prior to any pulls you want to do a preinfusion to soak the coffee load, so you will see me pull the lever down and hold it for a 'passive' preinfusion (as I understand the term) which helps soak the coffee and prepares for the spring pressure load, this preinfusion will swell the coffee load and that's why grind/tamp is important as well as headspace in the basket. The preinfusion can last anywhere from 3 - 15secs depending on several factors. The other method of preinfusion is 'active' (as I understand the term) which involves more liberal use of lever pumping to not only introduce water but also to lightly pressurize it through the puck. Opinions are all over the ice on what works better and why and so on and so forth, which is what makes this so interesting.
But anyway, back to the 1 lever pull straight shot. The beauty of a .5oz shot is you can drink a pile of them. Understandably a one pull straight shot might be better using the single basket at approx 7-8gms per but I was going with the double basket at 12-14gms per and adjusting the grind/dose so that I was getting a decent shot without concerning myself too much about 'not extracting the coffee mass enough'. Overall it was a really fun time and I probably pulled 50 or 60+ shots before I went to the double lever pull (with preinfusion). I learned quite a bit about how to move the parameters around by using the double basket/single pull, one lever pull is doable but I think the PVL, based on it deep basket and narrow diameter, works better with the two lever pull at approx 1oz.
When comparing the same dose (lets use 13gms as an example) and comparing two shots against each other, one being a single lever pull and the other being a double lever pull, the requirement comes down to grind adjustment - a bit tighter for the double pull and a bit coarser for the single pull. Make sense?
The single pull, as you can imagine, is more intense and satisfying like wrapping a heavy robe around yourself, like a ristretto off a vibe pump... but not really, haha. The double pull is 'more open' and still satisfying but showing more breathing space and stage presence. Kind of like comparing a small chamber concert in a non-reflective surface antechamber vs. a larger concert with a three row stage setup in a taller ceiling space with maybe a window or two open to let a cross-breeze through. Not quite that extreme but it serves to illustrate what I've seen so far. Both have their pro's and con's, both have their place in the day or night and will resonate with your mood or need, fortunately the PVL seems to be able to provide which ever one you want. Or at least that's what I've seen so far but it's still early days... and really, what do I know I'm still a lever noob. ;-)
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..like a ristretto off a vibe pump... but not really, haha.
A few more cranks of the reel.
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PVL, based on it deep basket and narrow diameter,
What are you using for your tamper?
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What are you using for your tamper?
Probably one of these...
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I usually just grab whatever is handiest, I walked into the kitchen a couple of mins ago to grab an iPhone shot of a tamper and figured this would fit the bill.
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You just can't beat a nice juicy tamper. 8)
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You just can't beat a nice juicy tamper. 8)
I had to grind down the plastic thing hanging off the front of my Macap to 53mm. That works really good now.
;)
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Here's the same lever pull shot from two different angles, one is off my iPhone and the other is off a GoPro HD camera.
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1oz half-lever pulls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51L0lKtJ3JI#)
For the HD footage, be sure to click 720P HD and then 'expand' for the full IMAX experience. ;-)
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1 ounce lever pull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbgt74rbXU#)
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HD IMAX vids of lever pulls....really dude, really? :help: :help:
How long a drive is it to your kitchen from Denver?
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Calgary,+Alberta,+Canada&daddr=Denver,+CO&hl=en&geocode=%3BCSoCjBJ1bqyTFRJfXgIdgQ---SnPFx8jqoBrhzHWNoon-PSOEQ&mra=ls&sll=39.739154,-104.984703&sspn=0.30413,0.522537&g=Denver,+CO,+United+States&ie=UTF8&z=5 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Calgary,+Alberta,+Canada&daddr=Denver,+CO&hl=en&geocode=%3BCSoCjBJ1bqyTFRJfXgIdgQ---SnPFx8jqoBrhzHWNoon-PSOEQ&mra=ls&sll=39.739154,-104.984703&sspn=0.30413,0.522537&g=Denver,+CO,+United+States&ie=UTF8&z=5)
:)
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
Nope.... Bo is up around Kalispell I think and after a few cups of coffee I need to have a few glasses of Russian River Red with him. It adds a day to the trip. 8)
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
No speed limits in Montana.
Maybe I should move to Montana...
Frank Zappa - Montana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlntX_iMg5g&feature=related#)
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
Nope.... Bo is up around Kalispell I think and after a few cups of coffee I need to have a few glasses of Russian River Red with him. It adds a day to the trip. 8)
All right then ... I sit corrected 24 + 18 = 42 hours (due to Bo pitstop).
:)
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
Nope.... Bo is up around Kalispell I think and after a few cups of coffee I need to have a few glasses of Russian River Red with him. It adds a day to the trip. 8)
Make sure you pick up a glass for me on the way through.
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I am sorry I missed this thread over the past few days. Congrats on the lever purchase! Are you having fun yet? They just bring so many more variables into the equation, eh?!
How are things going so far? Any specific questions?
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I am sorry I missed this thread over the past few days. Congrats on the lever purchase! Are you having fun yet? They just bring so many more variables into the equation, eh?!
How are things going so far? Any specific questions?
It's been fantastic, I'm really digging the variables now introduced via 'custom pressurization' based on what I see in the stream flow and flow rate. Full pulls, half pulls, pulls at the top and at the bottom, long pre and short pre-infusion, it's so much fun now that I understand the principles.
I have to say the PVL is a forgiving machine and would probably work for an espresso rookie but I don't think I would recommend it to a beginner until they spent some time working on a machine like a BII or whatever, so they could get a grip on all the other variables before diving deeper into the hole with the new variables. Make sense?
Dude, questions... my head is full of them but I'm having fun sorting it out in my own bump into walls kinda way. Thanks for checking up on me.
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I am sorry I missed this thread over the past few days. Congrats on the lever purchase! Are you having fun yet? They just bring so many more variables into the equation, eh?!
How are things going so far? Any specific questions?
It's been fantastic, I'm really digging the variables now introduced via 'custom pressurization' based on what I see in the stream flow and flow rate. Full pulls, half pulls, pulls at the top and at the bottom, long pre and short pre-infusion, it's so much fun now that I understand the principles.
I have to say the PVL is a forgiving machine and would probably work for an espresso rookie but I don't think I would recommend it to a beginner until they spent some time working on a machine like a BII or whatever, so they could get a grip on all the other variables before diving deeper into the hole with the new variables. Make sense?
Dude, questions... my head is full of them but I'm having fun sorting it out in my own bump into walls kinda way. Thanks for checking up on me.
What size portafilter does the PVL use, and how many grams will top it off?
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I am sorry I missed this thread over the past few days. Congrats on the lever purchase! Are you having fun yet? They just bring so many more variables into the equation, eh?!
How are things going so far? Any specific questions?
It's been fantastic, I'm really digging the variables now introduced via 'custom pressurization' based on what I see in the stream flow and flow rate. Full pulls, half pulls, pulls at the top and at the bottom, long pre and short pre-infusion, it's so much fun now that I understand the principles.
I have to say the PVL is a forgiving machine and would probably work for an espresso rookie but I don't think I would recommend it to a beginner until they spent some time working on a machine like a BII or whatever, so they could get a grip on all the other variables before diving deeper into the hole with the new variables. Make sense?
Dude, questions... my head is full of them but I'm having fun sorting it out in my own bump into walls kinda way. Thanks for checking up on me.
What size portafilter does the PVL use, and how many grams will top it off?
I measure the internal diameter of the baskets as 45mm. For grams, it really depends on how tight or coarse you grind the coffee and how well you distribute, and if you tap the grinds down halfway through your dosing from the grinder. Generally speaking I think it's safe to say the basket will hold 11-15gms per dose. Typically I'm operating in the 12-13gm area.
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
No speed limits in Montana.
Alas, an oft-repeated fallacy...
On a couple of small portions of I-90 and I-94 this was/is true, but for the rest of the state there are, indeed, speed limits. Last summer I got clocked doing 87 in a 65 zone just North of Great Falls by an oncoming trooper. I paid the $20 fine on the spot. If I had been written up for going 3 miles an hour faster (which, in fact, I was well in excess of), it would have been a 'point' and been reported to my insurance company. I did manage to make it from Minot ND to Missoula MT (750 miles or so) in about 10-1/2 hours, which is a pretty good indication of how fast a fella can successfully go in that state.
I listened to Overnight Sensation a couple of times on that trip... 8)
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You could be there in just over 18 hours John.
No speed limits in Montana.
Alas, an oft-repeated fallacy...
On a couple of small portions of I-90 and I-94 this was/is true, but for the rest of the state there are, indeed, speed limits. Last summer I got clocked doing 87 in a 65 zone just North of Great Falls by an oncoming trooper. I paid the $20 fine on the spot. If I had been written up for going 3 miles an hour faster (which, in fact, I was well in excess of), it would have been a 'point' and been reported to my insurance company. I did manage to make it from Minot ND to Missoula MT (750 miles or so) in about 10-1/2 hours, which is a pretty good indication of how fast a fella can successfully go in that state.
I listened to Overnight Sensation a couple of times on that trip... 8)
I pretty much knew that, from reading Car&Driver. But it fit well with where the thread was heading to fudge a tad.
The reason I asked about the PF was rooted in some of the discussions I read regarding the Vivaldi's 53mm vs. 58mm. I guess the Lever has shifted enough parameters that it would be hard to decide if any changes were strictly the PF.
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I'm really digging this thread. So many variables that can have an effect on the cup! That machine looks like the tinkering man's dream.... :P
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I'm really digging this thread. So many variables that can have an effect on the cup! That machine looks like the tinkering man's dream.... :P
Levers are soooo that! They are so simple internally too. Staylor, have you looked under the hood of your Lusso yet? It makes me think I could actually make one if I had enough time.
How are you liking the 2-group setup?
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I'm really digging this thread. So many variables that can have an effect on the cup! That machine looks like the tinkering man's dream.... :P
Levers are soooo that! They are so simple internally too. Staylor, have you looked under the hood of your Lusso yet? It makes me think I could actually make one if I had enough time.
How are you liking the 2-group setup?
One of the first things I did was go digging around inside, I adjusted the pressure down to 1 bar. I bet you could put something together if you are handy, which I'm not.
As for the 2 group, for the extra bit of cash I think it's the way to go.
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Ponte Vecchio Lusso 15gms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW7wQ7xwYiw#)
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Ponte Vecchio Lusso updose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMxPT98Yblc#)
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Ponte Vecchio Lusso microfoam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoiquFjRwlo#)
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I don't understand a word of it but the backing track in reply #42 makes me think it's the foreign language version of spill the wine. ;D
The entire vibe the singer is giving off....totally a "leaping gnome".
Eric Burdon & War - Spill The Wine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i0DMbCKnAg#)
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Dead Can Dance, I first heard them in the mid-90's while laying on some pillows in a small cafe in a place called Dahab, the Sinai Desert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Can_Dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Can_Dance)
That song you heard was off the 'Into the Labyrinth' album.
This is the first track off that same album, give it at least 4mins it will build on you.
Yulunga - Dead Can Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJqUbb-WuPQ#)
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I am loving the videos. How many shots are you pulling a day? You might be altering the lever learning curve . . . What are your thoughts on the 45mm taller PF basket? Can you pick out differences between the shots you are pulling, with the coffee you roast, on the PVL versus the Brewtus?
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I am loving the videos. How many shots are you pulling a day? You might be altering the lever learning curve . . . What are your thoughts on the 45mm taller PF basket? Can you pick out differences between the shots you are pulling, with the coffee you roast, on the PVL versus the Brewtus?
Well I've had the PVL for a week and I figure I've got over 100 shots on it now. Partly for my own enjoyment and partly to push it around a bit to see what it can do and to expand my small lever sandbox - big sandboxes are big fun. ;-)
I'm trying to capture some of my learning curve on vid, when I was looking around I thought there was a real shortage of stuff that I was interested in seeing as a lever noob, it might be boring to some of the old lever dogs, but I know as a newbie there's isn't much out there. Hopefully it's helping someone out there.
I've read pretty much everything there is to read about the 45mm tall basket, I think some of the theories are correct, certainly the results in the cup don't lie. One thing for sure, there's a very big difference between what I am getting from the PVL vs the BII. Very different.
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Well I've had the PVL for a week and I figure I've got over 100 shots on it now. Partly for my own enjoyment and partly to push it around a bit to see what it can do and to expand my small lever sandbox - big sandboxes are big fun. ;-)
I'm trying to capture some of my learning curve on vid, when I was looking around I thought there was a real shortage of stuff that I was interested in seeing as a lever noob, it might be boring to some of the old lever dogs, but I know as a newbie there's isn't much out there. Hopefully it's helping someone out there.
I've read pretty much everything there is to read about the 45mm tall basket, I think some of the theories are correct, certainly the results in the cup don't lie. One thing for sure, there's a very big difference between what I am getting from the PVL vs the BII. Very different.
Shaun ... can you expand on the different part ... different good ... different bad? Are the shots creamier, sweeter, all around tastier?
Any regrets going lever so far?
???
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Mp,
The results could very well be all of the things you mention depending on the shot. One of the great benefits of a lever is that you do have total control . . . for better and for worse. With that said, I would love to hear your experience Staylor.
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I would love to hear your experience Staylor.
I think it all might have started somewhere in a UK pub (or maybe it was in Ireland) whereupon a drunken fool was harassing a young lady. A slender but strong young man leaning on the bar having seen enough, walked over and delivered a head butt that sent the drunkard off to sleepy time for a while.
Then the two stepped out for an ice cream....
I might be way off but it's possible this is where the Staylor experience began. ;D
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As I remember it, I was drinking a pint of Dublin Guinness.
The ice cream in Dublin is good but the Guinness is better.
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As I remember it, I was drinking a pint of Dublin Guinness.
Sure, but isn't that is where the Evan and Keegan Gluey and Leg Beard show begins?
You probably can't remember the story I was talking about. ;D ;D
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As I remember it, I was drinking a pint of Dublin Guinness.
Sure, but isn't that is where the Evan and Keegan Gluey and Leg Beard show begins?
You probably can't remember the story I was talking about. ;D ;D
Gluey and Leg Beard, totally an insider joke.
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Here's a different angle:
Pont Vechhio Lusso 2 bean blend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wnzconu__c#)
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A different extraction technique, tighter grind, lighter tamp, keeping the pressure profile up and enjoying the glop.
PVL 14gms tight grind w/ light tamp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRFKE5GqLMk#)
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Some quick microfoam...
3oz of milk off the PVL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW3WQD7bU5Q#)
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I've been posting over at HB, trying to pay back a little bit for the institutional knowledge that exists over there in the lever camp. http://www.home-barista.com/levers/shot-technique-question-for-spring-lever-owners-t14676-60.html (http://www.home-barista.com/levers/shot-technique-question-for-spring-lever-owners-t14676-60.html)
I just replied to a fella who said:
"tekomino wrote: Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful."
So I obliged, but as you will see it probably isn't worth anything to anyone because of the multiple variables you can use to drive the shot any which way you want. I'm starting to feel a whole lot more up to speed on the lever process and am finally dialing in to the 'intuitive pulls' that have me modifying my technique in real time as the shot is flowing. So his question of 'post tasting notes' have very little relevance to anything other than I Start and I Finish and I Get the resulting Cup. Anyway... here's my response, I post it here because some of you have been asking about 'how's it taste'.
"tekomino wrote:Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful.
I can do that but my main goal was/is to try and capture (via video) a bunch of different ways to pull shots with the PVL.
Before I get into tasting notes, I want to do the mandatory preamble that my palate/espresso experience/expectations might be different than yours, which might be different than the guy next door. My tasting notes from this morning make more sense to me than my neighbor.
On to the shots...
The shots I pulled this morning were from two roasts; one batch is an 8 day old Gethumbwini Peaberry taken to the outliers of 2nd and the other batch is a 3.5 day old Wiladah Mabrur generally using the same roast profile. I was post-roast blending straight into the grinder throat at an approx 50/50 split. The several shots I did this morning ranged from .75oz to 1.5oz in volume, they ranged in dose and in pull time. As you will see shortly they also ranged between single basket and double basket.
Depending on how I extracted/setup techniqued I got combination's of blackcurrant cassis, merlot and earthiness/warm wood, a blackcurrant tea and brown sugar, a Rich red grape and a bit of cinnamon and warm brown sugar, etc, etc. On the nose it was a lot of blackcurrant and rich grape along with some earthy wood, some of the shots had a tiny bit of anise thrown in there and some had a tiny bit of nutmeg. Body ranged from heavy to medium depending on the pull/technique. Nothing sharp or citrusy, all shots were low acidity.
I know those tasting notes aren't worth the electronic paper they are written on because they reflect at least 10 shots that were a mix of half pulls and full pulls depending on what I saw in the espresso flow or how I wanted to drive the shot. Hence my reluctance to post up tasting notes with the videos, preferring to stick to things like "that was a pretty good shot". Maybe not the answer you are looking for... sorry about that."
Here's a 7gm shot, at tight grind and light tamp...
Ponte Vecchio Lusso single basket (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyKDC84rBQ#)
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Shaun,
What might be more worthwhile is the taste of the coffee pulled with the PVL and the Brutus in general terms. Based on what you said so far I'm getting the impression that the same coffee combo tastes different from pull to pull ... depending on your barista technique. Sounds like you have radically more control of the pulled flavor with the lever than a semi auto.
:)
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Shaun,
What might be more worthwhile is the taste of the coffee pulled with the PVL and the Brutus in general terms. Based on what you said so far I'm getting the impression that the same coffee combo tastes different from pull to pull ... depending on your barista technique. Sounds like you have radically more control of the pulled flavor with the lever than a semi auto.
:)
Well it won't be me making the comparison between the PVL and BII, I sold the BII to a neighbor and I haven't seen it for over a week now.
Yes, much more control... which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on what you do.
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A different extraction technique, tighter grind, lighter tamp, keeping the pressure profile up and enjoying the glop.
Have I told you lately that I hate you? :P
edit - am I the only one who was trying to look down into the cup off the portafilter reflection during the shot?
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The shots I pulled this morning were from two roasts; one batch is an 8 day old Gethumbwini Peaberry taken to the outliers of 2nd and the other batch is a 3.5 day old Wiladah Mabrur generally using the same roast profile. I was post-roast blending straight into the grinder throat at an approx 50/50 split. The several shots I did this morning ranged from .75oz to 1.5oz in volume, they ranged in dose and in pull time. As you will see shortly they also ranged between single basket and double basket.
Depending on how I extracted/setup techniqued I got combination's of blackcurrant cassis, merlot and earthiness/warm wood, a blackcurrant tea and brown sugar, a Rich red grape and a bit of cinnamon and warm brown sugar, etc, etc. On the nose it was a lot of blackcurrant and rich grape along with some earthy wood, some of the shots had a tiny bit of anise thrown in there and some had a tiny bit of nutmeg. Body ranged from heavy to medium depending on the pull/technique. Nothing sharp or citrusy, all shots were low acidity.
I know those tasting notes aren't worth the electronic paper they are written on because they reflect at least 10 shots that were a mix of half pulls and full pulls depending on what I saw in the espresso flow or how I wanted to drive the shot. Hence my reluctance to post up tasting notes with the videos, preferring to stick to things like "that was a pretty good shot". Maybe not the answer you are looking for... sorry about that."
Perhaps the guy is asking, as would I if I were learning about levers, what the half pulls and fulls, how you drive the shot, affect the flavors.
Yes, much more control... which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on what you do.
And that greater control has people asking how do you keep that control from making poor results vs. ultra-groovy.
A question that I would ask is this; if, while your PVL was en route, would you have wanted more information on its use, and would said information had any actual value to you?
-
"Perhaps the guy is asking, as would I if I were learning about levers, what the half pulls and fulls, how you drive the shot, affect the flavors."
The difficult part is a half pull or a full pull will only affect the flavor on that particular 'built shot'. And each built shot at the moment is different from the next built shot depending on how I grind, dose, tamp (remember I am messing around with light tamp and harder tamp) and basket size. I'm not setting up 10 shots with identical grinds, dose and tamp in the exact same basket and then deploying 10 different extraction approaches against them. I'm now in my natural learning curve... which always has me morphing through multi-variables as I rapidly absorb more and more knowledge. Kind of like SkyNet trying to become self aware on a lever machine. ;-)
"A question that I would ask is this; if, while your PVL was en route, would you have wanted more information on its use, and would said information had any actual value to you?"
It's a good question,and my answer is that I wanted a lot more information than was out there... prior to making my decision on getting the PVL. Once I made my decision to go with the PVL I think the videos I've put up recently would have sufficed to lead me on a natural learning curve.
-
"Perhaps the guy is asking, as would I if I were learning about levers, what the half pulls and fulls, how you drive the shot, affect the flavors."
The difficult part is a half pull or a full pull will only affect the flavor on that particular 'built shot'. And each built shot at the moment is different from the next built shot depending on how I grind, dose, tamp (remember I am messing around with light tamp and harder tamp) and basket size. I'm not setting up 10 shots with identical grinds, dose and tamp in the exact same basket and then deploying 10 different extraction approaches against them. I'm now in my natural learning curve... which always has me morphing through multi-variables as I rapidly absorb more and more knowledge. Kind of like SkyNet trying to become self aware on a lever machine. ;-)
"A question that I would ask is this; if, while your PVL was en route, would you have wanted more information on its use, and would said information had any actual value to you?"
It's a good question,and my answer is that I wanted a lot more information than was out there... prior to making my decision on getting the PVL. Once I made my decision to go with the PVL I think the videos I've put up recently would have sufficed to lead me on a natural learning curve.
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful. ;D
-
"Perhaps the guy is asking, as would I if I were learning about levers, what the half pulls and fulls, how you drive the shot, affect the flavors."
The difficult part is a half pull or a full pull will only affect the flavor on that particular 'built shot'. And each built shot at the moment is different from the next built shot depending on how I grind, dose, tamp (remember I am messing around with light tamp and harder tamp) and basket size. I'm not setting up 10 shots with identical grinds, dose and tamp in the exact same basket and then deploying 10 different extraction approaches against them. I'm now in my natural learning curve... which always has me morphing through multi-variables as I rapidly absorb more and more knowledge. Kind of like SkyNet trying to become self aware on a lever machine. ;-)
"A question that I would ask is this; if, while your PVL was en route, would you have wanted more information on its use, and would said information had any actual value to you?"
It's a good question,and my answer is that I wanted a lot more information than was out there... prior to making my decision on getting the PVL. Once I made my decision to go with the PVL I think the videos I've put up recently would have sufficed to lead me on a natural learning curve.
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful. ;D
Bhaha, "it tastes pretty good".
-
"Perhaps the guy is asking, as would I if I were learning about levers, what the half pulls and fulls, how you drive the shot, affect the flavors."
The difficult part is a half pull or a full pull will only affect the flavor on that particular 'built shot'. And each built shot at the moment is different from the next built shot depending on how I grind, dose, tamp (remember I am messing around with light tamp and harder tamp) and basket size. I'm not setting up 10 shots with identical grinds, dose and tamp in the exact same basket and then deploying 10 different extraction approaches against them. I'm now in my natural learning curve... which always has me morphing through multi-variables as I rapidly absorb more and more knowledge. Kind of like SkyNet trying to become self aware on a lever machine. ;-)
"A question that I would ask is this; if, while your PVL was en route, would you have wanted more information on its use, and would said information had any actual value to you?"
It's a good question,and my answer is that I wanted a lot more information than was out there... prior to making my decision on getting the PVL. Once I made my decision to go with the PVL I think the videos I've put up recently would have sufficed to lead me on a natural learning curve.
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful. ;D
Bhaha, "it tastes pretty good".
That's more like it.
-
"Perhaps the guy is asking, as would I if I were learning about levers, what the half pulls and fulls, how you drive the shot, affect the flavors."
The difficult part is a half pull or a full pull will only affect the flavor on that particular 'built shot'. And each built shot at the moment is different from the next built shot depending on how I grind, dose, tamp (remember I am messing around with light tamp and harder tamp) and basket size. I'm not setting up 10 shots with identical grinds, dose and tamp in the exact same basket and then deploying 10 different extraction approaches against them. I'm now in my natural learning curve... which always has me morphing through multi-variables as I rapidly absorb more and more knowledge. Kind of like SkyNet trying to become self aware on a lever machine. ;-)
"A question that I would ask is this; if, while your PVL was en route, would you have wanted more information on its use, and would said information had any actual value to you?"
It's a good question,and my answer is that I wanted a lot more information than was out there... prior to making my decision on getting the PVL. Once I made my decision to go with the PVL I think the videos I've put up recently would have sufficed to lead me on a natural learning curve.
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful. ;D
Bhaha, "it tastes pretty good".
That's more like it.
If only we could get them distributors to post espresso notes on their offerings.
-
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful. ;D
I think it would be best if he would just build an iphone app and email blast that will alert members when he is about to pull shots. Then a simple live conference web link using the HD camera for the meeting will provide us a real time tool. This should of course be interactive for Q&A's immediately after the session.
I also think a white board with all the details of roast, blend (if any), shot build data for each basket, and any other useful notes would be nice. The vid conference could open up with this board and a 3:00 countdown timer so we could either ready our notepads, take a bathroom break, or maybe get snacks.
Tasting notes live would be too much to ask......a follow up email 3-4 hours post session would be sufficient.
;)
-
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes as well for videos to be truly useful. ;D
I think it would be best if he would just build an iphone app and email blast that will alert members when he is about to pull shots. Then a simple live conference web link using the HD camera for the meeting will provide us a real time tool. This should of course be interactive for Q&A's immediately after the session.
I also think a white board with all the details of roast, blend (if any), shot build data for each basket, and any other useful notes would be nice. The vid conference could open up with this board and a 3:00 countdown timer so we could either ready our notepads, take a bathroom break, or maybe get snacks.
Tasting notes live would be too much to ask......a follow up email 3-4 hours post session would be sufficient.
;)
+1
Also how about a chart of grind, tamp, pressure, lever action & roast variables with the effects on the taste profile of the coffee.
;D
-
... or maybe get snacks.
Did someone say snacks, I'm always down for some snacks.
-
... or maybe get snacks.
Did someone say snacks, I'm always down for some snacks.
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes on the snacks as well, for videos to be truly useful.
-
... or maybe get snacks.
Did someone say snacks, I'm always down for some snacks.
Nice, but you need to post tasting notes on the snacks as well, for videos to be truly useful.
+1
You also need to tell us how the snacks went with each new shot that you took.
:)
-
Snack pairing videos coming right up.
-
Snack pairing videos coming right up.
All right ... you are the man ... not only espresso foo ... but now snack foo.
:wav:
-
did John get a lever?
-
did John get a lever?
The last I heard is that he never heard back from the guy selling the $100 Pavoni.
:-\
-
did John get a lever?
The last I heard is that he never heard back from the guy selling the $100 Pavoni.
:-\
Last I heard he is waiting for Py to buy one, and then wait 3 months for Py to buy something else and then buy it from him. ;D
-
As John's personal shopper, I am back on the hunt.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280537408717&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280537408717&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110562454560&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110562454560&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180535094575&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180535094575&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150469124724&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150469124724&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370409836216&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370409836216&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320538988998&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320538988998&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190420108788&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190420108788&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250669408736&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250669408736&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/for/1841979895.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/for/1841979895.html)
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/app/1845114590.html (http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/app/1845114590.html)
http://tulsa.craigslist.org/bfs/1846871047.html (http://tulsa.craigslist.org/bfs/1846871047.html)
And last but not least:
http://tucson.craigslist.org/app/1844964050.html (http://tucson.craigslist.org/app/1844964050.html)
-
Thank you for posting them all in one spot, instead of STARTING A BLEEPING NEW THREAD for each one.
You're the best Py! :angel:
-
did John get a lever?
The last I heard is that he never heard back from the guy selling the $100 Pavoni.
:-\
Last I heard he is waiting for Py to buy one, and then wait 3 months for Py to buy something else and then buy it from him. ;D
You may be right.
:)
-
As John's personal shopper, I am back on the hunt.
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280537408717&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280537408717&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110562454560&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110562454560&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180535094575&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180535094575&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150469124724&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150469124724&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370409836216&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370409836216&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320538988998&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320538988998&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190420108788&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190420108788&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250669408736&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250669408736&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT[/url])
[url]http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/for/1841979895.html[/url] ([url]http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/for/1841979895.html[/url])
[url]http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/app/1845114590.html[/url] ([url]http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/app/1845114590.html[/url])
[url]http://tulsa.craigslist.org/bfs/1846871047.html[/url] ([url]http://tulsa.craigslist.org/bfs/1846871047.html[/url])
And last but not least:
[url]http://tucson.craigslist.org/app/1844964050.html[/url] ([url]http://tucson.craigslist.org/app/1844964050.html[/url])
There are a couple of good prospects for John in the ebay listings.
:)
-
STARTING A BLEEPING NEW THREAD for each one.
I thought that was the tradition? :angel:
Remember how some people felt about hot topics? "All you have to do is not look!" ::)
-
STARTING A BLEEPING NEW THREAD for each one.
I thought that was the tradition? :angel:
Remember how some people felt about hot topics? "All you have to do is not look!" ::)
Does that mean we are going to have an opt out of eBay & Craigslist finds?
???
-
STARTING A BLEEPING NEW THREAD for each one.
I thought that was the tradition? :angel:
Remember how some people felt about hot topics? "All you have to do is not look!" ::)
Does that mean we are going to have an opt out of eBay & Craigslist finds?
???
Only if all the planets were aligned.
-
Thank you for posting them all in one spot, instead of STARTING A BLEEPING NEW THREAD for each one.
You're the best Py! :angel:
Better yet, put them in the CL/EBay forum rather than clogging this thread with them.
B|Java
-
did John get a lever?
Not yet....I've got a few things on my plate right now (besides snacks) that need to be taken care of before I can get it.
I've decided against getting a used machine unless I come across a deal totally impossible to pass up. The $100 Pav that was in excellent shape was such a deal. I tried to get it but never got a response. :-\
I'm almost positive that I'm getting the same machine Staylor has but the only thing is I'm still not sure on the second group....I figure by the time I pull the trigger he will have some definitive findings on the usefulness of that second group for a single user. I'm not positive I'll ever need it and prefer the look of the single group. If I am 90% sure I'll never use it I might go with the single but there is also a case to be made for buying the exact machine so we can do some fun things with Team Sugar Land International branch...
But...life happens, I have some things I need to do first including another move in a few months and timing is not working in my favor right now. But It's a serious priority for me so it's gonna happen as soon as the window opens up for it.
-
Well John ... you sure are a man on the move.
;)
-
What I'm seeing so far is a person could easily get by with a 1 group. Easily.
The main reason I would recommend the 2 group right now is redundancy. If a lever seal fails in one of the groupheads I just have to roll straight over to the other grouphead. I have a spare gasket and a spare lever seal kit (along with a tamper, a Kyocera CM-45, a couple of Bodum Pavina's and a couple of 2oz espresso cups) coming from Orphan Espresso so I'll be able to get the failed grouphead up to speed at my leisure, if a seal fails. By all accounts the lever seals are pretty reliable and long lasting... still... when I am in my morning espresso routine the knowledge of having redundancy is comforting.
But again, a person could easily get by with a 1 group.
-
Well John ... you sure are a man on the move.
It's not a far move this time. But it will put me right at the base of the foothills....it's gonna ROCK!! 8)
-
This one makes me laugh for a variety of reasons...
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 14.1gms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SI9bWGcow8#)
-
This one makes me laugh for a variety of reasons...
You need a Maui/Kona layered shot when you use that tune.
If you are portafiltersoffury, who will John be? Do we need a naming contest for John when he starts tubing in response with his lever?
B|Java
-
The main reason I would recommend the 2 group right now is redundancy.
I think that feature is much more important to your situation than mine for 2 reasons.
1) Because you are more espresso focused than I am. I will be pulling shots on it every day like you but will not be "out" at all if I need to go to another prep or a few days to replace a seal. For you I can see real benefit to rolling over to the second group and not missing a beat.
2) I am not dropping my pump machine. Even if I loose a seal and for some reason don't want to accept a different prep I can just flip the switch on my tin foil espresso express. ;)
I'm not ruling it out because you might come up with more reasons before I purchase and if you start using both groups to build something that can't be done with one......well, that is a a game changer for sure and I'm getting the 2.
-
So far I'm pretty sure you would be good with the 1 group.
John's YouTube name = nottwoportafiltersoffury
-
A little bit of milk for that drink.
PVL 3oz of milk in Gethumbwini Peaberry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zge_PABbnTM#)
-
I have a spare gasket and a spare lever seal kit (along with a tamper, a Kyocera CM-45, a couple of Bodum Pavina's and a couple of 2oz espresso cups) coming from Orphan Espresso
Is it to late to trade the cups for a bottomless?
I'm starting to really need to see what is going on in there..... :-X
-
Shaun,
A question if I may ... I notice all your pulls on the PVL come excruciatingly slow. Is this planned or is this just the way the honey drips?
???
-
Thank you for posting them all in one spot, instead of STARTING A BLEEPING NEW THREAD for each one.
You're the best Py! :angel:
Better yet, put them in the CL/EBay forum rather than clogging this thread with them.
B|Java
I think he was complaining about the ones I have been putting in those forums.
It was like something I have heard before. Someone complaining about posts in an area of the forum that he doesn't have to go into.
-
Shaun,
A question if I may ... I notice all your pulls on the PVL come excruciatingly slow. Is this planned or is this just the way the honey drips?
???
Planned.
In the next video, which you'll see in a bit, I adjusted things for the next coffee - a straight shot of a 28hr post-roast Calle de Copey.
-
John's YouTube name = nottwoportafiltersoffury
PortafiltersofSui-ren
-
Shaun,
A question if I may ... I notice all your pulls on the PVL come excruciatingly slow. Is this planned or is this just the way the honey drips?
???
Planned.
In the next video, which you'll see in a bit, I adjusted things for the next coffee - a straight shot of a 28hr post-roast Calle de Copey.
Is this a decision to improve the flavor of the shot?
???
-
Pretty much sold on the PVL?
best price on a PVL so far? $921 shipped?
-
Pretty much sold on the PVL?
best price on a PVL so far? $921 shipped?
Where did you see that Py?
:)
-
A double basket SO shot of a 28hr old Calle de Copey into a 2oz cup.
15.3gms dosed as a level basket with a 3lb tamp giving a 5mm headspace pulled as per the vid (3sec pre-infusion w/ two full length pulls and killed at early blonding). Extraction resulted in 19gms. Nice sweet nose maybe a bit of honey but not overly big at this point. Acidity was bright and clear but not sharp. Medium body with a hint of creaminess. Tastes like a sweet tangerine that had been sauteed lightly in a lightweight honey. Transported to a spot in Florida and the first bite of a perfect tangerine just plucked off a tree.
Straight shot of Calle de Copey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQNluB6KQVE#)
-
A double basket SO shot of a 28hr old Calle de Copey into a 2oz cup.
15.3gms dosed as a level basket with a 3lb tamp giving a 5mm headspace pulled as per the vid (3sec pre-infusion w/ two full length pulls and killed at early blonding). Extraction resulted in 19gms. Nice sweet nose maybe a bit of honey but not overly big at this point. Acidity was bright and clear but not sharp. Medium body with a hint of creaminess. Tastes like a sweet tangerine that had been sauteed lightly in a lightweight honey. Transported to a spot in Florida and the first bite of a perfect tangerine just plucked off a tree.
That's too much information. >:D
-
28hr old
3lb tamp
Acidity was bright and clear but not sharp.
Stunt riding already? ;)
-
A double basket SO shot of a 28hr old Calle de Copey into a 2oz cup.
15.3gms dosed as a level basket with a 3lb tamp giving a 5mm headspace pulled as per the vid (3sec pre-infusion w/ two full length pulls and killed at early blonding). Extraction resulted in 19gms. Nice sweet nose maybe a bit of honey but not overly big at this point. Acidity was bright and clear but not sharp. Medium body with a hint of creaminess. Tastes like a sweet tangerine that had been sauteed lightly in a lightweight honey. Transported to a spot in Florida and the first bite of a perfect tangerine just plucked off a tree.
That's too much information. >:D
Maybe less information and more snacks? ;-)
-
I just went out and found the clip from Next Friday where Epps is ranting about Baby D knowing all the new snacks before they even come out, how she gets "bootleg snacks". ;D
I was trying to find a way to weave it in and post it but it's not a good fit. Still makes me laugh.....bootleg snacks. Hahaha!
-
How about a nice 1oz Calle de Copey shot and some 'scalper snacks'. Scalper snacks require a snack assistant who will hide off to the side, out of the camera view, and quietly pimp various snacks that may or may not go well with the particular shot. It doesn't matter if the snack matches up, as long as there are snacks.
-
28hr old
3lb tamp
Acidity was bright and clear but not sharp.
Stunt riding already? ;)
Haha, just saw this. Very good.
The answer = yes. ;-)
-
Pretty much sold on the PVL?
best price on a PVL so far? $921 shipped?
Where did you see that Py?
:)
seriously?
http://www.kitchenu.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=bz&sku=5219 (http://www.kitchenu.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=bz&sku=5219)
then use coupon for another 5%
KIT5
-
Pretty much sold on the PVL?
best price on a PVL so far? $921 shipped?
Where did you see that Py?
:)
seriously?
[url]http://www.kitchenu.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=bz&sku=5219[/url] ([url]http://www.kitchenu.com/shop/product.aspx?ref=bz&sku=5219[/url])
then use coupon for another 5%
KIT5
Yeah ... but Py ... that is a single lever machine.
:-X
-
I thought he wanted a single group?
they have the 2 group at $1168
Of course if he wasn't committed to the PVL, there are other options....
-
I thought he wanted a single group?
they have the 2 group at $1168
Of course if he wasn't committed to the PVL, there are other options....
Yes ... he does want 1 group ... but he wants this one:
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/ponte_vecchio/ponte_vecchio_export.htm (http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/ponte_vecchio/ponte_vecchio_export.htm)
:)
-
I think 1st line has some Electra levers for demo pricing left:
http://fwd4.me/Y3O (http://fwd4.me/Y3O)
Since, John won't be using this as his primary coffee prep, these would make his counter look pretty nice!
-
While the Shopping Channel experts are busy researching anything and everything for sale, here's an espresso I just pulled... from an actual lever... to keep them motivated.
Keep tire kicking boys...
48hr old Calle de Copey.
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While the Shopping Channel experts are busy researching anything and everything for sale, here's an espresso I just pulled... from an actual lever... to keep them motivated.
Keep tire kicking boys...
48hr old Calle de Copey.
That's excellent motivation Shaun! How's that old saw go, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, tell others how to do it."? Or something like that. :-X
-
While the Shopping Channel experts are busy researching anything and everything for sale, here's an espresso I just pulled... from an actual lever... to keep them motivated.
Keep tire kicking boys...
48hr old Calle de Copey.
That's excellent motivation Shaun! How's that old saw go, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, tell others how to do it."? Or something like that. :-X
And then there is the gallery ... that says "Way to go!".
:)
-
While the Shopping Channel experts are busy researching anything and everything for sale, here's an espresso I just pulled... from an actual lever... to keep them motivated.
Keep tire kicking boys...
48hr old Calle de Copey.
That's excellent motivation Shaun! How's that old saw go, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, tell others how to do it."? Or something like that. :-X
And then there is the gallery ... that says "Way to go!".
:)
Yea Shaun - atta boy!
-
This vid shows a sub-1oz shot, I mainly did the vid to capture the crema production on the 6 day old Calle de Copey. The iPhone was a bit shaky being hand-held and pulling on the lever, etc but it gets the point across.
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1oz Bodum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwOz7f-QrLA#)
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Looks great!
What snack did you pair up with that?
:)
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I hadn't realized the PV had non-professional portafilters 'til I saw the video. Gaggia used that type for a long time before they converted to the single outlet threaded type. I prefer the pro-style PF's because I only use a single spout unless I'm doing the bottomless thing.
Maybe Shaun can convert one of his to bottomless?
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I definitely need bottomless. I have to find a buddy or a neighbor with a hammer and really sharp chisel.
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This was the next shot setup in a 2oz cup, a 50/50 split of Wiladah Mabrur and Chelfit. Sorry about the video, it seems I can't hold the iPhone straight and pour milk at the same time. This was 2oz of milk steamed in a 20oz pitcher with 47gms of the microfoam poured on top of the shot.
Ounce of microfoam into an ounce of espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdX5qVnq3h8#)
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I definitely need bottomless. I have to find a buddy or a neighbor with a hammer and really sharp chisel.
All you need is a neighbor with a drill press. Then go to the hardware store and buy a 2 1/8" wood hole saw. (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=2+1/8%22+hole+saw&hl=en&cid=12763672079631458612&ei=IftNTNXoIKbYjASi1oiBAw&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p) Clamp the portafilter to the drill press and the hole saw will easily cut the brass. Keep the drill speed fairly slow.
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0cgPFOS8QAPor1vUoDX5edNKVz71bj5fHCh1yU7twLO60t3ynkDEpmdDUqpYJ-ogYOLtjxR9jehWjq9Ez17Ms-IUqY_sO0UgtWS9G9QX4rKtONiE7CgRr2XkgAmSPHZX8aEJBMAdjK2-S7ytofTm)
You may need the mandrel too, but some hole saws come with them
-
I definitely need bottomless. I have to find a buddy or a neighbor with a hammer and really sharp chisel.
All you need is a neighbor with a drill press. Then go to the hardware store and buy a 2 1/8" wood hole saw. ([url]http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=2[/url] 1/8" hole saw&hl=en&cid=12763672079631458612&ei=IftNTNXoIKbYjASi1oiBAw&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p) Clamp the portafilter to the drill press and the hole saw will easily cut the brass. Keep the drill speed fairly slow.
([url]http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0cgPFOS8QAPor1vUoDX5edNKVz71bj5fHCh1yU7twLO60t3ynkDEpmdDUqpYJ-ogYOLtjxR9jehWjq9Ez17Ms-IUqY_sO0UgtWS9G9QX4rKtONiE7CgRr2XkgAmSPHZX8aEJBMAdjK2-S7ytofTm[/url])
You may need the mandrel too, but some hole saws come with them
I would like someone to cut the bottoms off with a laaaaaaazzzer. Maybe a shark or something.
Austin Powers goldmember - sharks with laser beam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh5Lh-tTSZQ#ws)
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I definitely need bottomless. I have to find a buddy or a neighbor with a hammer and really sharp chisel.
All you need is a neighbor with a drill press. Then go to the hardware store and buy a 2 1/8" wood hole saw. ([url]http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=2+1/8%22+hole+saw&hl=en&cid=12763672079631458612&ei=IftNTNXoIKbYjASi1oiBAw&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p[/url]) Clamp the portafilter to the drill press and the hole saw will easily cut the brass. Keep the drill speed fairly slow.
([url]http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0cgPFOS8QAPor1vUoDX5edNKVz71bj5fHCh1yU7twLO60t3ynkDEpmdDUqpYJ-ogYOLtjxR9jehWjq9Ez17Ms-IUqY_sO0UgtWS9G9QX4rKtONiE7CgRr2XkgAmSPHZX8aEJBMAdjK2-S7ytofTm[/url])
You may need the mandrel too, but some hole saws come with them
Like this?
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I definitely need bottomless. I have to find a buddy or a neighbor with a hammer and really sharp chisel.
If you go looking for a hole-saw, you would do well to take the PF with you. Or, you could mail one of your two PFs to me, and I will buy the hole saw and zing it out. That would be the least I could do for my new espresso-fu cult-hero; pouring art in a 2oz. cup... that's insane. I'm guessing by the time I get that down, you'll be doing it on your unicycle. ;D
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That 1oz shot is sick.....
That's it, I'm pulling 1 ozers for a month when I get my machine. All one ozers.... 30 days straight.
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'All one ouncers, all the time', it should be a TV series. Speaking of shows, I recently finished season 3 of The Wire, man that is a great series. It's unbelievable how many core characters they 'remove' as the series progresses, it's refreshing to see some gritty reality.
Thanks for the offer Peter, I think I'm gonna try and get all medieval on one of the PF... right now.
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I went into the garage and looked around to see if I had the potential to go all medieval on that PF. I decided I didn't. I'm gonna hit the Home Depot tomorrow and see whas' uuuuuuupp.
In the meantime, here's a tasty morsel off the iPhone. Looking at it makes me think I should decompress after my race and go see Inception tonight.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4832615605_fd825f8a9f_z.jpg)
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Looking at it makes me think I should decompress after my race and go see Inception tonight.
You are gonna dig it the most. :icon_rr:
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Very interesting on so many levels!
-
Very interesting on so many levels!
Hahahaha!
A rock solid 6 word review of the movie. ;D
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Here you go John, I'll try and get you 30. ;-)
This was Calle de Copey.
Shot #2 for John (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZNwyW2xkM#)
This was a 24hr old Naranjos Nanolot, dosed at 15.8gms and pulled at 16.2gms, ristretttttoooooo.
Shot #3 for John (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akcQhAGgsE8#)
And here's another 1oz of microfoam on top of 1oz Calle de Copey.
Pour #2 for John (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sTL-zCyMlI#)
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This was a 24hr old Naranjos Nanolot, dosed at 15.8gms and pulled at 16.2gms, ristretttttoooooo.
What does this mean, pulled at 16.2gms? Are you weighing the shot in order to know when to end it?
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I want that in my Belly!!!
;D
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This was a 24hr old Naranjos Nanolot, dosed at 15.8gms and pulled at 16.2gms, ristretttttoooooo.
What does this mean, pulled at 16.2gms? Are you weighing the shot in order to know when to end it?
Watch the video, you will see I put the cup on the scale after I pulled the shot and the resulting liquid came out to 16.2gms (I had tared the scale with the empty cup prior to pulling the shot).
I know when to end the shot, because it tells me. I weigh it afterwards to see the relationship between coffee weight and liquid weight.
Make sense?
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This was a 24hr old Naranjos Nanolot, dosed at 15.8gms and pulled at 16.2gms, ristretttttoooooo.
What does this mean, pulled at 16.2gms? Are you weighing the shot in order to know when to end it?
Watch the video, you will see I put the cup on the scale after I pulled the shot and the resulting liquid came out to 16.2gms (I had tared the scale with the empty cup prior to pulling the shot).
I know when to end the shot, because it tells me. I weigh it afterwards to see the relationship between coffee weight and liquid weight.
Make sense?
Oh my ... do you weigh everything ... before and after?
???
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This was a 24hr old Naranjos Nanolot, dosed at 15.8gms and pulled at 16.2gms, ristretttttoooooo.
What does this mean, pulled at 16.2gms? Are you weighing the shot in order to know when to end it?
Watch the video, you will see I put the cup on the scale after I pulled the shot and the resulting liquid came out to 16.2gms (I had tared the scale with the empty cup prior to pulling the shot).
I know when to end the shot, because it tells me. I weigh it afterwards to see the relationship between coffee weight and liquid weight.
Make sense?
You da Monk - oops I meant da man! Measuring things is cool, as long as you don't come up short. :angel:
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I know when to end the shot, because it tells me. I weigh it afterwards to see the relationship between coffee weight and liquid weight.
And you have to weigh it afterwards to make sure it was telling you the truth. Espresso, being of the female gender, can sometimes allege one thing and give you another. ;D
So blonding will help determine the end of the shot. And then weighing it will perhaps tell you about your dosing and distribution, based on your weight/volume at blonding?
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Haha, yeah Tex, I think I beat that one by .4gms.
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This was a 24hr old Naranjos Nanolot, dosed at 15.8gms and pulled at 16.2gms, ristretttttoooooo.
What does this mean, pulled at 16.2gms? Are you weighing the shot in order to know when to end it?
Watch the video, you will see I put the cup on the scale after I pulled the shot and the resulting liquid came out to 16.2gms (I had tared the scale with the empty cup prior to pulling the shot).
I know when to end the shot, because it tells me. I weigh it afterwards to see the relationship between coffee weight and liquid weight.
Make sense?
Oh my ... do you weigh everything ... before and after?
???
No I don't. I do it sometimes when I'm checking a new bean or checking a different routine. I've done it on and off since I read this http://www.jimseven.com/2007/01/02/espresso-extraction-ratios/ (http://www.jimseven.com/2007/01/02/espresso-extraction-ratios/) but it's become more of a habit recently.
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I know when to end the shot, because it tells me. I weigh it afterwards to see the relationship between coffee weight and liquid weight.
And you have to weigh it afterwards to make sure it was telling you the truth. Espresso, being of the female gender, can sometimes allege one thing and give you another. ;D
So blonding will help determine the end of the shot. And then weighing it will perhaps tell you about your dosing and distribution, based on your weight/volume at blonding?
Haha, yeah Peter, but weight and females... iy, yiii, yiiiiiii.
In simple terms blonding determines the shot, in more detail I pay attention to the flow rate, blonding, viscosity and 'feel'. Then the weight will tell me about the extraction ratio which you've probably seen me just post about.
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Jim Seven ... you really like what that guy writes?
???
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Jim Seven ... you really like what that guy writes?
???
Not really... he's got no credentials, he knows nothing about espresso or milk, has no imagination and has no coffee industry insight, in fact I doubt he even drinks coffee. ;-)
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viscosity
I watched the first vid on the last page and had one word to say.
I saw there was another page with posts so I am reading them before posting........
See quote above.
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Not really... he's got no credentials, he knows nothing about espresso or milk, has no imagination and has no coffee industry insight, in fact I doubt he even drinks coffee. ;-)
Hahahah!
I like about 90% of what he says.
And that is HUGE for me. Most "coffee guys" I've read around town clock in at about 40% on a good day. :-\
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In simple terms blonding determines the shot, in more detail I pay attention to the flow rate, blonding, viscosity and 'feel'.
Good words. That helps me firm up in my own mind what I've been trying to do w/o realizing it. My machine being where it is, has poor lighting at the PF. So I have a hard time making fine distinctions when it goes blonde, which has me starting to look at viscosity and flow. I've actually toyed with the idea of mounting a small LED or two, maybe the head from a small flashlight on either side of the group, as long as I could do it in a clean fashion and they wouldn't blind me as I'm watching the bottom of the naked.
After reading that page you linked to, I have some other ideas. My machine has volumetric dosing, and I have it set to 2oz. on one of the buttons, but I programmed it by volume, which is hard to measure with the crema and all. Now I'm going to reset it, as a shot pulls into an empty glass tared out on scale.
Thanks buddy.
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My machine has volumetric dosing, and I have it set to 2oz. on one of the buttons, but I programmed it by volume, which is hard to measure with the crema and all. Now I'm going to reset it, as a shot pulls into an empty glass tared out on scale.
Be careful there...
I'd say set it to 3oz to kill/bypass that feature but it's your ride. I'm just sayin'.
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In simple terms blonding determines the shot, in more detail I pay attention to the flow rate, blonding, viscosity and 'feel'.
Good words. That helps me firm up in my own mind what I've been trying to do w/o realizing it. My machine being where it is, has poor lighting at the PF. So I have a hard time making fine distinctions when it goes blonde, which has me starting to look at viscosity and flow. I've actually toyed with the idea of mounting a small LED or two, maybe the head from a small flashlight on either side of the group, as long as I could do it in a clean fashion and they wouldn't blind me as I'm watching the bottom of the naked.
After reading that page you linked to, I have some other ideas. My machine has volumetric dosing, and I have it set to 2oz. on one of the buttons, but I programmed it by volume, which is hard to measure with the crema and all. Now I'm going to reset it, as a shot pulls into an empty glass tared out on scale.
Thanks buddy.
K.I.S.S. - this is what I have: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10128734 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10128734)
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My machine has volumetric dosing, and I have it set to 2oz. on one of the buttons, but I programmed it by volume, which is hard to measure with the crema and all. Now I'm going to reset it, as a shot pulls into an empty glass tared out on scale.
Be careful there...
I'd say set it to 3oz to kill/bypass that feature but it's your ride. I'm just sayin'.
That's my other button.
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That's my other button.
I like that one better....the "11". ;D ;D
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Using the same grind setting, same tamp headspace, same blend, etc, I pulled two very different shots that were separated by less than a gram at the dosing. You can see the end result as liquid was quite different as was the lever technique required and that displayed itself as taste in the cup.
Shot using my iPhone so it's a bit 'wobbly'.
Shot #4 for John (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xNGElw20Co#)
Does a 1 gram difference make a difference in espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3p0XpJrtig#)
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Well then there is a demo Lusso at 1st line:
Lusso 2G Black. This one has been modified. There is no hot water spigot. The hot water tap was no longer working- The hot water pipe has been removed and replaced with a second steam wand. The machine now has TWO steam wands, and two groups. Heavily discounted to $749 with a 30 day warranty.
John, time to pull the trigger.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150223969090624#w400-h300 (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150223969090624#w400-h300)
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Py ... you're funny ... John wants the 1 group PVL.
Although for $50.00 difference ... you may be making a very persuasive argument.
;D
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That was some nasty looking milk.
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That was some nasty looking milk.
Yeah ... but it made me feel good ... I feel like an expert next to him.
;D
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That was some nasty looking milk.
But it was really big. ;D
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Py ... you're funny ... John wants the 1 group PVL.
Although for $50.00 difference ... you may be making a very persuasive argument.
;D
I finally had a lever vid to post.
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That was some nasty looking milk.
But it was really big. ;D
He could have used that milk to pack fragile espresso parts in boxes and ship them around the world.
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John,
I been keeping an eye out for you. I figger this answers the 1 group vs 2 group question. 2 group Lusso for the price of a one group export.
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Shot #5 for John (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5ZRMFXYvSo#)
Simple 3oz microfoam pour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUybgzJa_g#)
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I see what you are doing..... :help:
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I just picked up my second Olympia Cremina! She gets here on Wednesday. Exciting, exciting, exciting.
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I just picked up my second Olympia Cremina! She gets here on Wednesday. Exciting, exciting, exciting.
If you don't mind me asking ... how much did she set you back and what type of shape is it in?
???
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I see what you are doing..... :help:
Do you... ?
;-)
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I see what you are doing..... :help:
Do you... ?
;-)
Do you see this?
1.5 day old blend through the bottomless PF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnfCS6bqcwc#)
Just got both of them done today. ;-)
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It was less then the $1,350 Orphan asks for a restored one :) . I am having it shipped to me so I am not 100% on the condition. It looked pretty good in the pictures though. It will be a fun full rebuild project.
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It was less then the $1,350 Orphan asks for a restored one :) . I am having it shipped to me so I am not 100% on the condition. It looked pretty good in the pictures though. It will be a fun full rebuild project.
How many machines do you have now?
???
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Did you just bring the PFs to a machine shop to have them chopped or did you do it yourself?
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It was less then the $1,350 Orphan asks for a restored one :) . I am having it shipped to me so I am not 100% on the condition. It looked pretty good in the pictures though. It will be a fun full rebuild project.
How many machines do you have now?
???
Seven when that one arrives. I have 1 semi-auto and 6 lever machines. I will actually have time to rebuild some of them after I get through with my finals. I have not worked on a machine since my Trimester started in May.
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It was less then the $1,350 Orphan asks for a restored one :) . I am having it shipped to me so I am not 100% on the condition. It looked pretty good in the pictures though. It will be a fun full rebuild project.
Sweet!
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Did you just bring the PFs to a machine shop to have them chopped or did you do it yourself?
Took them both to a good quality machine shop, they did a great job.
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I know it looks like jet spray hit the side of the cup from a spritzer, but it was from one of the early bubbles that formed at the beginning of the shot and eventually burst as it left the bottom of the basket causing a kind of low speed machine gun strafe.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/4842078481_01dbb41932_z.jpg)
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This is something new for me, I've never seen it before. The bottomless lever creates a foam at the end of the shot which kind of hangs on to the bottom of the basket, pretty cool.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/4842705744_f4e055c89d_z.jpg)
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Whatever caused that look ... it looks very tasty!
I need that in my belly!
;D
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It does look like they did a top notch job on them! How do you like them so far? Have you gotten the lever PF 'burp' bubble yet?Espresso Shots from a lever machine and naked portafilter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owBIzgLA6UQ#)
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This is something new for me, I've never seen it before. The bottomless lever creates a foam at the end of the shot which kind of hangs on to the bottom of the basket, pretty cool.
([url]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/4842705744_f4e055c89d_z.jpg[/url])
Yeah ... never seen that either ... must be a lever thing.
:icon_scratch:
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Do you see this?
I saw some of it....when the tears got too much I just turned it off.
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It does look like they did a top notch job on them! How do you like them so far? Have you gotten the lever PF 'burp' bubble yet?
I watched that vid a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed it. I was wondering if I would get any PF burp bubbles and I'm already seeing some pretty cool foamies, something I've never seen up close before.
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I just went and took an iPhone shot of one of them.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/4842177653_51efa6aac3_z.jpg)
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Same day service. . . That is quite a machine shop you have there!
For all of the people drooling over Staylor's 2-Group Ponte Vecchio, I would like to make you aware of the fact that there is a 2-Group PVL available on craigslist Richmond, VA for $550. It looks to have been well taken care of in the pictures, but as always I do not know anything about the machine of it's owner. They even say that the $550 includes insured shipping anywhere in the US!
Here is a link: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/app/1869540812.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/app/1869540812.html)
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Now if John was ready to buy I think he would pounce all over that.
:)
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Shaun, the bottom of your baskets looks like the holes are a lot larger than a typical basket. Is that an illusion?
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Same day service. . . That is quite a machine shop you have there!
Same day service worked like this...
"So what you are telling me is the job could take anywhere from an hour to two hours to complete and you aren't sure if you could even do it today, your shop labor rate is $80 per hour? How about $100 cash, if it takes him 12mins to do he can keep the change, I'll wait outside and clown around with my boys and he can call me when it's done?"
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Haha. That sounds more like a machine shop :) .
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How about $100 cash, if it takes him 12mins to do he can keep the change, I'll wait outside and clown around with my boys and he can call me when it's done?"
Cash is king, and money talks. Unfortunately, it is usually saying, "Bye-bye." ;D
When it comes to having some job done, and done well and also quickly, cost takes a backseat. I like how they opened the bottom of the PF up all the way. You probably won't ever find a triple basket for that size PF, but if you did it could hang down beyond the opening.
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I thought this one was going to pull a little more liquid but the stream had me stopping it around a 1/1 ratio.
13.9gm coffee dose with 14.8gm result (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyxHzx1f8kw#)
Just a little over a 1/1 ratio.
16gms of Naranjos Nanolot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZqV4_Hzlys#)
-
15gm dose and a 21.5gm result from a 4 day old blend.
Brazil/Yemen blend .75oz espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAqQCp0SPEg#)
-
The evening shot.
Evening espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_LaSdFlF10#)
-
13.6gm dose delivering a .75oz shot.
.75oz espresso from the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8_ZFt4UMJA#)
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Here you go John. This Ardi is part of the order I put in via Roastmasters based on Rob's efforts to get the 10% discount.
Sidamo shot for John (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7S-te8rtPU#)
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Another 1 day old from that Roastmasters order.
Burundi Yandaro Bourbon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLnpwbiulT0#)
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Here you go John.
Your diabolical psych warfare is.....diabolical. :P
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Here you go John.
Your diabolical psych warfare is.....diabolical. :P
Well here's a 4ozer to ease your pain. ;-)
Small milk off the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICtkLdbdojA#)
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Well here's a 4ozer to ease your pain. ;-)
Yes, that makes me feel better..... el' negativo.
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Well here's a 4ozer to ease your pain. ;-)
Yes, that makes me feel better..... el' negativo.
Just tryin' to help you out buddy. ;-)
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Just tryin' to help you out buddy. ;-)
Plans are in the works....slow plans, but in the works.
-
my 2 groups Lusso just arrived from 1st line. I'll be dialing down the P-stat and start playing with this machine. The video from Shaun inspired me into getting this machine.
-
my 2 groups Lusso just arrived from 1st line. I'll be dialing down the P-stat and start playing with this machine. The video from Shaun inspired me into getting this machine.
Sounds great ... let us know what you think.
:)
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my 2 groups Lusso just arrived from 1st line. I'll be dialing down the P-stat and start playing with this machine. The video from Shaun inspired me into getting this machine.
I think you are going to really enjoy the machine. There's so much to play with, preinfusion is my little rabbit hole right now especially after playing with the Slayer machine on the weekend which made me rethink lever interaction with the coffee bed. Very, very cool.
I'm finding the ability to pressure profile and preinfuse on a realtime basis, dependent on what I feel with the coffee, is allowing me to drive the lever forward in an exciting direction... down, down, down into the lever rabbit hole.
Post up if you have any questions on things. I don't know your espresso background or anything about your coffee experience but I will mention it's a good idea to get yourself a kitchen scale that measures to the .1gm level and start weighing every dosed basket load prior to the pull, even as few as 4-6 beans can make a difference in the cup/pull strategy. Crazy I know, but it's fact.
Here's Slayer's site to get a sense of their 'two stage' grouphead, the difference in the cup as based on brewing technology comparing traditional 9 bar extraction versus 2 stage (2 bar, then 9 bar, then 2 bar in whatever timeline ration you want) is so noticeable it's two different drinks - how different is up to you as the barista: http://www.slayerespresso.com/ (http://www.slayerespresso.com/)
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[youtube]Ristretto, preinfusion, pressure profiling espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHeu0qbuZT8#)[/youtube]
[youtube]More espresso preinfusion, pressure manipulation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DocVas-Qk_s#)[/youtube]
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[youtube][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHeu0qbuZT8#[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHeu0qbuZT8#[/url])]Ristretto, preinfusion, pressure profiling espresso[/youtube]
[youtube][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DocVas-Qk_s#[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DocVas-Qk_s#[/url])]More espresso preinfusion, pressure manipulation[/youtube]
Hopefully that will work.
:)
Guess not.
::)
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Brutal, I'll give it another try...
Ristretto, preinfusion, pressure profiling espresso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHeu0qbuZT8#)
More espresso preinfusion, pressure manipulation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DocVas-Qk_s#)
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Some Burundi...
Burundi Yandaro Bourbon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tErPEr-4kDY#)
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nice looking shots Shauns. I'm hoping to get some video of my shots soon. I pulled 2 shots of Sidamo Chelfit today, the 1st one was clearly overextracted as it was bitter even with 4 oz of milk. The second one was better, may be in the same ball park as my La Pavoni manual lever which is not bad for a second try on this machine. I'm hoping to experiment more tomorrow morning!!!
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nice looking shots Shauns. I'm hoping to get some video of my shots soon. I pulled 2 shots of Sidamo Chelfit today, the 1st one was clearly overextracted as it was bitter even with 4 oz of milk. The second one was better, may be in the same ball park as my La Pavoni manual lever which is not bad for a second try on this machine. I'm hoping to experiment more tomorrow morning!!!
Have fun!
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Guat La Tacita.
Guat La Tacita (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbpw0BnHkVM#)
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I have been getting consistently soupy puck at various doses and grind setting with my PVL; yet the shots are consistently tasty. Shaun, have you observed this as well?
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I have been getting consistently soupy puck at various doses and grind setting with my PVL; yet the shots are consistently tasty. Shaun, have you observed this as well?
I did initially. It might be from a few things...
- Grind too tight, which causes resistance which causes soup.
- Preinfusion too long, which soaks entire coffee bed, which causes resistance, which causes soup.
- Dose too large, which causes resistance, which causes soup.
- Lever pulls too close together, which increase water volume and subsequent pressure which causes resistance, which causes soup.
Those are a few things to consider. I would recommend trying to create the opposite of soup to make sure you can start from the other end of the spectrum, a dry puck. So try a 13gm dose with a coarser grind, tamp at a low 3-5lb pressure (but more importantly look for approx 5mm headspace between top of coffee bed and rim of basket), do a shorter pre-infusion of approx 3secs, then do your first real lever pull and let it go the full length, then another full length pull, moving the cup out from the stream at signs of early blonding. Check the puck and let me know.
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Some Guatemala Finca Puerta Verde a local roaster gave me. It's really quite good as a shot.
Finca Puerta Verde (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6XcsjeG__M#)
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Some Guatemala Finca Puerta Verde a local roaster gave me. It's really quite good as a shot.
Is that a Mercanta import? I cupped that not long ago and liked it....
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Some Guatemala Finca Puerta Verde a local roaster gave me. It's really quite good as a shot.
Is that a Mercanta import? I cupped that not long ago and liked it....
I think it was, I scored it from 'Phil and Sebastian' http://philsebastian.com/?page_id=344 (http://philsebastian.com/?page_id=344)
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The lighting isn't great on the shot or the milk pour but the results of a 50/50 split between the Sidamo 'Ardi' (Roastmasters, thx again for the discount Rob) and Guatemala Finca Puerta Verde was fantastic.
Sidamo 'Ardi' and Guat Puerta Verde (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiC5URHPhA4&hd=1#)
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A couple of bonus milk pours off the PVL at the end of the shot.
Sidamo & Guat lever pull with some milk at the end (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTyKZfxdAR8&hd=1#)
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An SO pull for a 4oz milk pour, ok it's not the nicest art but it was still tasty.
Amaro Gayo lever shot into a 4oz cup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjXsaK6unik&hd=1#ws)
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Hey John,
Can you hear it, can you hear that slo-mo pour calling out your name? It's calling your name at 1:23 "J o hhhhh nnnnnnnnnnn"
Espresso blend pulled in real time and slo-mo using GoPro HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rttSzOSqNB8#ws)
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Staylor ... lever salesman extraordinaire.
;D
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Staylor ... lever salesman extraordinaire.
;D
Just doing my part to keep the fires lit underneath John. ;-)
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Just doing my part to keep the fires lit underneath John. ;-)
No additional pressure required.
I had a list of 5-6 things I needed to get done before I can get the machine and the list is down to 2 right now and one of those is moving to the done column pretty soon.
Feels like it taking forever but slowly I inch towards the prize....
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Feels like it taking forever but slowly I inch towards the prize....
Feels like it moving in... slo-mo. ;-)
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A bit of lever action with some complimentary MMA action.
Espresso and MMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh1camhSwlM#ws)
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"..And I just want to drink my coffee"
Blahahahaha!
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"..And I just want to drink my coffee"
Blahahahaha!
I'm heading out with them right now to buy gloves and foot-gear. Maybe this way I can pull shots and not worry about the blood loss quite as much. ;-)
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I'm heading out with them right now to buy gloves and foot-gear. Maybe this way I can pull shots and not worry about the blood loss quite as much. ;-)
It's really hard to cut somebody when wearing those puffy red pads from Century....unless you are planning on going hard core and getting them 4oz UFC's. :-X
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Got them both setup with some leather 6oz gloves and some muay thai shin/foot guards. Let the games begin.
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Got them both setup with some leather 6oz gloves and some muay thai shin/foot guards. Let the games begin.
Muay thai espresso freaks.
;D
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Got them both setup with some leather 6oz gloves and some muay thai shin/foot guards. Let the games begin.
Muay thai espresso freaks.
;D
Sounds like a decent lifestyle choice. ;-)
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This thread has been much too quiet for too long. I have an inkling to begin saving for a lever machine. I am chunking away a five-r now and then, with a 3-year timeline. Why?
Tactile is appealing to me. There is something about moving back rather than forward. I would like to have the lever-look adorning the "retired person's" kitchen. Right now, I pull two doubles on Sat/two on Sunday. Down the road, I would probably pull a double a day. Period. I would be making espresso for 1-2 people; never a mob.
Downside? How steep is that learning curve? Once familiar with the machine, the process, the touch, will I be pulling too many sink shots? I don't have the depth of espresso knowledge that most of you 'presso heads do. I am a PID'd Silvia boy and enjoy it but think a lever would work into my retirement mode.
Have I lost it? Thx, B|Java
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The levers certainly are gorgeous! And the involvement of the '4th M' would be more appealing than pushing a button, especially to someone like you B|Tactile.
Just a guess, but you may never get ahead of the learning curve at 2/day. Not only that, but will the ability to fine tune the shots for greater nuance of flavor be truly appreciated in milk drinks? Just thinking out loud, since I know little about levers.
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Just a guess, but you may never get ahead of the learning curve at 2/day.
Agree with the question.
Not only that, but will the ability to fine tune the shots for greater nuance of flavor be truly appreciated in milk drinks? Just thinking out loud, since I know little about levers.
I believe so, or at least I experienced it in the macchiatos we were drinking at that drinking spree at your home with Chad and LCL. I still fix lattes for the Czarina. I have gone over to macchiatos for myself since LCL laid hands on the Silvia.
B|Java
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Yes, you can pick up the nuances through milk. Depending on the lever you have though your shot draw might be smaller, i.e. Ponte Vecchio, Elektra, Olympia, etc., so your entire drink would have to shrink or you would have to put more shots into it. There is definitely a learning curve and experience is really the only thing to counter it. I am sure you would eventually get the hang of it, but with one double a day, as Peter said, it would most likely take quite a while to get great at pulling shots on one.
Do you want to buy the lever new or used? I would push you heavily toward used. The only electronic parts in a Lever machine are the heating element and the pstat. As far as working on machines goes they are very easy to work on, fix and maintain. If you peruse craigslist / ebay enough you will run into an elektra or ponte vecchio, even an occasional commercial lever for $500 or less.
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... I am sure you would eventually get the hang of it, but with one double a day, as Peter said, it would most likely take quite a while to get great at pulling shots on one.
Though you haven't met me, you know me. It takes me quite a while to catch onto everything.
Do you want to buy the lever new or used? I would push you heavily toward used...
Immaterial to me, as long as it was well maintained. I am in no rush, with a timeline way out there. I have just begun to read through some posts at the Lever Forum at HB and reading through Shaun's posts here.
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The thing you have going for you is that you have consumed amazing shots of espresso at one time or another, so at least you would be able to compare the shots you were pulling to something and judge their quality / how well you are doing. The main thing I think makes levers a challenge is also the same thing that makes them so great, your ability to manipulate the shot. You can grind and tamp a million different ways and compensate for those parameters by pre-infusing for longer or shorter periods of time, you can pull the lever down again anywhere throughout the shot to alter flow rate and you can even push, ever so slightly, up on the lever if the shot is pulling too slow for you.
If you are looking for more layers of flavor and more nuanced flavors I would tell you to look at the machines with smaller groupheads / portafilters. They tend to not be the best machines for entertaining a lot of people, with Staylors 2 head Ponte Vecchio being the real exception, because of their small boiler size and the time you have to wait for the group to depressurize after pulling a shot (1-2 minutes). With what is available right now I think Staylor has the most versatile machine in that group on the market. All together, the small group levers are steam monsters. My Elektra Micro Casa a Leva was an absolute animal. I have had somewhere around 10 levers and can without a doubt say that the most unique shots came from the Elektra and Olympia. My girlfriend consistently reminds me of how much she like the small milk drinks I made for her with the Elektra.
I have pulled my fair share of horrible shots on lever machines, but at the end of the day I personally enjoy the end results as well as the overall experience on a lever so much more than a semi-auto. I still enjoy shots from semi-autos, but just for different reasons.
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Yes, you can pick up the nuances through milk. Depending on the lever you have though your shot draw might be smaller, i.e. Ponte Vecchio, Elektra, Olympia, etc., so your entire drink would have to shrink or you would have to put more shots into it. There is definitely a learning curve and experience is really the only thing to counter it. I am sure you would eventually get the hang of it, but with one double a day, as Peter said, it would most likely take quite a while to get great at pulling shots on one.
Do you want to buy the lever new or used? I would push you heavily toward used. The only electronic parts in a Lever machine are the heating element and the pstat. As far as working on machines goes they are very easy to work on, fix and maintain. If you peruse craigslist / ebay enough you will run into an elektra or ponte vecchio, even an occasional commercial lever for $500 or less.
Agreed on all points.
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The thing you have going for you is that you have consumed amazing shots of espresso at one time or another, so at least you would be able to compare the shots you were pulling to something and judge their quality / how well you are doing. The main thing I think makes levers a challenge is also the same thing that makes them so great, your ability to manipulate the shot. You can grind and tamp a million different ways and compensate for those parameters by pre-infusing for longer or shorter periods of time, you can pull the lever down again anywhere throughout the shot to alter flow rate and you can even push, ever so slightly, up on the lever if the shot is pulling too slow for you.
If you are looking for more layers of flavor and more nuanced flavors I would tell you to look at the machines with smaller groupheads / portafilters. They tend to not be the best machines for entertaining a lot of people, with Staylors 2 head Ponte Vecchio being the real exception, because of their small boiler size and the time you have to wait for the group to depressurize after pulling a shot (1-2 minutes). With what is available right now I think Staylor has the most versatile machine in that group on the market. All together, the small group levers are steam monsters. My Elektra Micro Casa a Leva was an absolute animal. I have had somewhere around 10 levers and can without a doubt say that the most unique shots came from the Elektra and Olympia. My girlfriend consistently reminds me of how much she like the small milk drinks I made for her with the Elektra.
I have pulled my fair share of horrible shots on lever machines, but at the end of the day I personally enjoy the end results as well as the overall experience on a lever so much more than a semi-auto. I still enjoy shots from semi-autos, but just for different reasons.
And agreed again.
The only thing I would caution you on (as I'm now experiencing it myself) is the rabbit hole of lever possibilities. Not the kind of rabbit hole stuff we've discussed earlier but the idea that's been forming in my pea brain for a couple of months now... "what could I do with other levers, more capable levers, better levers, different levers, older levers?"
I, like you, appreciate 'the romantic and the tactile' side of coffee, the ability to engage in process and create paragraphs in the moment rather than sentences. It is a strength and a weakness. If you can balance the beauty of lever with it's opposite, an impersonal and analytical nature (it's what I try to do) you will progress faster along the lever curve. And so to the problem, for me at least...
I like the PVL, I do. But I also want to see what the G3 of levers can do, or at least somewhere in the middle between the PVL and a Kees lever. I also wonder about the old Italian levers. I wonder about some of the stuff Warrior372 has pulled on and I wonder what's holding me back from 'better'. And that gets to the crux of my lever dilemma... what is 'better' or more correctly what is 'lever espresso'? Of course the path is long and winding and I've only just crossed the threshold but already I'm staring off into the distance and wondering what's over the crest of that hill. If you know yourself and you know you might eventually be thinking the same thing, you might want to start chunking away a couple of 5'ers every now and then, enough to buy your first machine and enough to start saving for the next one. ;-)
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(http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~fsathira/projects/kyudo.jpg)
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That's a big lever. ;-)
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... I, like you, appreciate 'the romantic and the tactile' side of coffee, the ability to engage in process and create paragraphs in the moment rather than sentences. It is a strength and a weakness. If you can balance the beauty of lever . . .
Oh, I know that side of you. Earlier, before you posted, I was perusing this thread this morning (I think for the 3rd time in the past few months), I stumbled upon some of your early thoughts about a lever shot:
The single pull, as you can imagine, is more intense and satisfying like wrapping a heavy robe around yourself, like a ristretto off a vibe pump... but not really, haha. The double pull is 'more open' and still satisfying but showing more breathing space and stage presence. Kind of like comparing a small chamber concert in a non-reflective surface antechamber vs. a larger concert with a three row stage setup in a taller ceiling space with maybe a window or two open to let a cross-breeze through....
B|Java
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"the path [to espresso nirvana] is long and winding"
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... I, like you, appreciate 'the romantic and the tactile' side of coffee, the ability to engage in process and create paragraphs in the moment rather than sentences. It is a strength and a weakness. If you can balance the beauty of lever . . .
Oh, I know that side of you. Earlier, before you posted, I was perusing this thread this morning (I think for the 3rd time in the past few months), I stumbled upon some of your early thoughts about a lever shot:
The single pull, as you can imagine, is more intense and satisfying like wrapping a heavy robe around yourself, like a ristretto off a vibe pump... but not really, haha. The double pull is 'more open' and still satisfying but showing more breathing space and stage presence. Kind of like comparing a small chamber concert in a non-reflective surface antechamber vs. a larger concert with a three row stage setup in a taller ceiling space with maybe a window or two open to let a cross-breeze through....
B|Java
I was under the influence of espresso when I wrote that. ;-)
-
The thing you have going for you is that you have consumed amazing shots of espresso at one time or another, so at least you would be able to compare the shots you were pulling to something and judge their quality / how well you are doing. The main thing I think makes levers a challenge is also the same thing that makes them so great, your ability to manipulate the shot. You can grind and tamp a million different ways and compensate for those parameters by pre-infusing for longer or shorter periods of time, you can pull the lever down again anywhere throughout the shot to alter flow rate and you can even push, ever so slightly, up on the lever if the shot is pulling too slow for you.
If you are looking for more layers of flavor and more nuanced flavors I would tell you to look at the machines with smaller groupheads / portafilters. They tend to not be the best machines for entertaining a lot of people, with Staylors 2 head Ponte Vecchio being the real exception, because of their small boiler size and the time you have to wait for the group to depressurize after pulling a shot (1-2 minutes). With what is available right now I think Staylor has the most versatile machine in that group on the market. All together, the small group levers are steam monsters. My Elektra Micro Casa a Leva was an absolute animal. I have had somewhere around 10 levers and can without a doubt say that the most unique shots came from the Elektra and Olympia. My girlfriend consistently reminds me of how much she like the small milk drinks I made for her with the Elektra.
I have pulled my fair share of horrible shots on lever machines, but at the end of the day I personally enjoy the end results as well as the overall experience on a lever so much more than a semi-auto. I still enjoy shots from semi-autos, but just for different reasons.
The only thing I would caution you on (as I'm now experiencing it myself) is the rabbit hole of lever possibilities. Not the kind of rabbit hole stuff we've discussed earlier but the idea that's been forming in my pea brain for a couple of months now... "what could I do with other levers, more capable levers, better levers, different levers, older levers?"
I like the PVL, I do. But I also want to see what the G3 of levers can do, or at least somewhere in the middle between the PVL and a Kees lever. I also wonder about the old Italian levers. I wonder about some of the stuff Warrior372 has pulled on and I wonder what's holding me back from 'better'. And that gets to the crux of my lever dilemma... what is 'better' or more correctly what is 'lever espresso'? Of course the path is long and winding and I've only just crossed the threshold but already I'm staring off into the distance and wondering what's over the crest of that hill. If you know yourself and you know you might eventually be thinking the same thing, you might want to start chunking away a couple of 5'ers every now and then, enough to buy your first machine and enough to start saving for the next one. ;-)
Ummm . . . . Yea. That definitely happened to me. The reason I started refurbishing and selling levers is because I started wondering if other machines could possibly fulfill more of what my palette happened to like at the moment. I do not have enough disposable income to go out and purchase every machine I wanted to try, so I started trolling for deals. When I see a lever I am interested in playing with priced for $500 or less I would buy it, rebuild it, play with it and if it did not impress me / my palette I would sell it (That was the plan. . . . I think I have only sold 3-4 of them and have about 7 in all different stages of being rebuilt in my apartment. . . ). So, I went from a 49mm Elektra to a 49mm Cremina and then onto commercial levers.
In my opinion, what 58mm commercial levers have in temp stability and convenience they lack in the neighborhood of layers and nuanced flavors. They have more than a comparable 58mm semi-auto, but the flavors hit much differently pulling shots on a 58mm versus pulling shots on machines with smaller groups. I think that is one of the reasons La San Marco has such a cultish following. They make commercial levers that can be left on forever, they have a huge water capacity, temp stability (due to the massive amounts of metal used) and can bang out shots (like all commercial levers), but they also have a 53mm grouphead / portafilter setup so you can still get a similar flavor profile to something like an Elektra MCaL, Olympia Cremina, Ponte Vecchio.
It is definitely a different world :) .
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Wish your apartment was just a couple of houses down from my place.
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ST,
How about temp stability on levers. Do you need to temp surf? What kind of temp band does it come set at?
I also noticed that your unit seems "housed" in a compartment-like construction vs the free standing approach of an EXPORT (1 liter). Is it the larger boiler (3 litres) that merely accounts for that housing?
B|Java
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ST,
How about temp stability on levers. Do you need to temp surf? What kind of temp band does it come set at?
I also noticed that your unit seems "housed" in a compartment-like construction vs the free standing approach of an EXPORT (1 liter). Is it the larger boiler (3 litres) that merely accounts for that housing?
B|Java
The PVL is temp stable in my opinion. Temp surfing isn't necessary and the temp band is set by the boiler pressure you run it at.
The boiler does take up a good chunk of the interior but from a 'sitting on the counter' point of view it's not a big machine. Take a look at this link http://www.home-barista.com/ponte-vecchio-lusso-review.html (http://www.home-barista.com/ponte-vecchio-lusso-review.html) as the guys at HB did a really good job on the PVL review.
A friend just left our place a few mins ago, he dropped by to pick up some beans and stayed for a couple of hours, while he was here I hooked him up with a couple of small milks pulling a 5 day old Nyeri. He says the best coffee he's ever had he gets in my kitchen and he's been to a lot of good retail locations in N. America. Pulling a 5 day old Nyeri on a BII might have been too much 'in your face Kenyan' but on the PVL it isn't. The PVL's basket dimensions allow for some pretty interesting results and of course the ability to manipulate the shot via the inherent lever advantages can really drive out some good espresso. I'm not saying the PVL is the be all end all, nothing is. And I'm not saying I have a unique talent to provide great coffee, because I don't. What I am saying is with good beans, some experience and an interest in espresso exploration, pretty much anyone can pull good drinks on the PVL - without too much fuss.
Now that my buddy is gone I can get back to the machine and have a first shot at that 4 day old BUF Cafe.
Good times!
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If B|Java is going to start drinking SO shots of Kenya, I'm going to sell tickets. ;D
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Haha, well at one point in history it was believed the Earth was flat. ;-)
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Haha, well at one point in history it was believed the Earth was flat. ;-)
;D
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...I'm not saying the PVL is the be all end all, nothing is. And I'm not saying I have a unique talent to provide great coffee, because I don't. What I am saying is with good beans, some experience and an interest in espresso exploration, pretty much anyone can pull good drinks on the PVL - without too much fuss...
I get that. Your writing is clear and I don't find you 'fluff' your experience. It has sucked me in though, to really considering a lever as the center piece for our kitchen in the retirement home that looms on the horizon.
I will read the review as well as the smackdown comparison: http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/lever-espresso-machines-smackdown-t5176.html. (http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/lever-espresso-machines-smackdown-t5176.html.) Reallllllllllly looking forward to visiting Dogwood Coffee in the Twin Cities and chewing the barista's ear off about their commercial lever.
I could have sworn I heard some noise. Is that Peter rattling a cage, like a kid walking by an archaic zoo cage with a stick, zzzzzzzzzzzzitttt...
B|Java
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Maybe Peter is rattling the cage bars at the goat compound? ;-)
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Maybe Peter is rattling the cage bars at the goat compound? ;-)
I hear nothing.
B|Java
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Maybe Peter is rattling the cage bars at the goat compound? ;-)
I hear nothing.
B|Java
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNjgWys_Yb01mbsbV4pGA5v-RnTZcGF3qpaI8Xt3qMni2iW01SmQ)
That would be you on the right.
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That would be you on the right.
What?
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/11594_015.jpg)
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The Thrilla in Manilla ... Monkey vs Goat!
:o
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...I'm not saying the PVL is the be all end all, nothing is. And I'm not saying I have a unique talent to provide great coffee, because I don't. What I am saying is with good beans, some experience and an interest in espresso exploration, pretty much anyone can pull good drinks on the PVL - without too much fuss...
Reallllllllllly looking forward to visiting Dogwood Coffee in the Twin Cities and chewing the barista's ear off about their commercial lever.
You have me curious. . . what kind of lever do they run at Dogwood? I checked out the website, which I liked, but I could not see their lever in any of the pictures / did not see mention of it in any of their write-ups. I got odd enjoyment out of the fact that their first blog was written about the team visiting the local dairy farm where they purchase their milk. While there they did a milk tasting :) !
It made me curious. . . Does / has anyone ever used raw milk in their milk drinks?
Back to the levers. A Ponte Vecchio 1 or 2 group (depending on how many people you plan on serving in a row at any given time) would be a wonderful lever machine to own for many reasons!
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You have me curious. . . what kind of lever do they run at Dogwood?
Have no idea. Had written the director of Peace Coffee (Twin Cities, been there) for ideas. Got an email a week later from him -- he had been over to Dogwood and said they had a commercial lever. Trust me, I will know in a month -- and I will bring it back here.
I got odd enjoyment out of the fact that their first blog was written about the team visiting the local dairy farm where they purchase their milk. While there they did a milk tasting :) !
It made me curious. . . Does / has anyone ever used raw milk in their milk drinks?
Ah man, you just served up a juicy softball to Shaun. Go back to the fence; that is where he is going to hit it.
Back to the levers. A Ponte Vecchio 1 or 2 group (depending on how many people you plan on serving in a row at any given time) would be a wonderful lever machine to own for many reasons!
While I read a ton of good about it here in Shaun's posts and on H-B, ascetically it does not work for me. It looks too functional - - I think someone on H-B said it look like it was off a WWII German U-boat <howled at that>.
B|Java
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I got odd enjoyment out of the fact that their first blog was written about the team visiting the local dairy farm where they purchase their milk. While there they did a milk tasting :) !
Sounds like they took a page from the Team Sugar Land playbook.
We were at it years ago... ;)
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3068.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3068.0)
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3140.msg42658#msg42658 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3140.msg42658#msg42658)
Ah man, you just served up a juicy softball to Shaun. Go back to the fence; that is where he is going to hit it.
Very possible...he went on to buy a cow share after all. What a weirdo. :P
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You have me curious. . . what kind of lever do they run at Dogwood?
Have no idea. Had written the director of Peace Coffee (Twin Cities, been there) for ideas. Got an email a week later from him -- he had been over to Dogwood and said they had a commercial lever. Trust me, I will know in a month -- and I will bring it back here.
I got odd enjoyment out of the fact that their first blog was written about the team visiting the local dairy farm where they purchase their milk. While there they did a milk tasting :) !
It made me curious. . . Does / has anyone ever used raw milk in their milk drinks?
Ah man, you just served up a juicy softball to Shaun. Go back to the fence; that is where he is going to hit it.
Back to the levers. A Ponte Vecchio 1 or 2 group (depending on how many people you plan on serving in a row at any given time) would be a wonderful lever machine to own for many reasons!
While I read a ton of good about it here in Shaun's posts and on H-B, ascetically it does not work for me. It looks too functional - - I think someone on H-B said it look like it was off a WWII German U-boat <howled at that>.
B|Java
Saying my body can not handle milk is quite an understatement. With that said, I just drink shots of espresso. I have read about 300 times that pasteurizing milk kills all of the naturally occurring enzymes in it (among other things) and one of those naturally occurring enzymes is indeed lactase which would breakdown the lactose and allow 'lactose intolerant' individuals to once again consume dairy if they choose. I have not had milk in over a year and really do not miss it except for an occasional milk / coffee drink. Being in Chicago it is no the easiest thing to come-by.
B|Java, all old lever espresso machines look like German U-Boats! Some just have different colors of powder coating on the side panels then others. Unless you get into 50s and 60s machines, but you had better bust out your checkbook if you want one of those monsters! There are several levers that are more attractive, but few (if any) home levers that are more practical. I use to have an Elektra MCaL and it was sooo beautiful. Everyone who walked into my house would comment on it whether they like coffee or not. It was like having a copper and bronze functional statue in your house. The big downfall was shot capacity. You could only make 3-4 double shots before the machine was overheated and / or out of water.
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Haha, German U-Boat! Love it.
On the milk topic... Surface, Surface, Surface!!! It looks like John is all over it. That was truly a classic moment in time - 'The Milk Quest'.
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Haha, wow. So after reading all of that it looks like I need to give raw milk a try!
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So after reading all of that it looks like I need to give raw milk a try!
"breakin the law...breakin the law"..
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So after reading all of that it looks like I need to give raw milk a try!
"breakin the law...breakin the law"..
How valid is a law that requires you breaking it to consume a beverage that is healthy for you?
???
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So after reading all of that it looks like I need to give raw milk a try!
"breakin the law...breakin the law"..
How valid is a law that requires you breaking it to consume a beverage that is healthy for you?
???
Yea if raw milk is dangerous I guess they should outlaw raw cheese, kefir, yogurt, naturally fermented sauerkraut, kombucha, etc. Man . . . you had better watch out there are a lot of dangerous foods out there with good pre- and probiotic bacteria in it! The large amounts of good flora and fauna consumption of these items might generate in your GI could get to dangerously healthy levels! You are much more likely to get ill consuming greens from the grocery store than you are consuming raw milk from a small time dairy farmer.
I actually found a place near me that sells it. I guess the catch is I have to pour it into my own container to make it legal . . . . The price is $4 for a half gallon and $8 for a gallon. Still checking into if it is strictly grass fed.
Sorry B|Java I will stop stealing your thread now :).
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...
Sorry B|Java I will stop stealing your thread now :).
Nah, it's Shaun's thread. I just stuck my nose into this thread and probably will continue to do so as I read thru the tons of threads on H-B about levers. I know better than to post over there...
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You know how it works, the person who starts the thread only controls it for one post - the first post - after that it's non-stop GCBC thread curveballs. ;-)
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The price is $4 for a half gallon and $8 for a gallon.
And very well might be worth every penny.
I've got no idea about the lactose intolerant bit but if you try it I'd be interested to hear how it did for you.
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Couldn't resist sharing a picture of Cannonfodder's Gaggia Factory. Look at the wood (cocobolo) he incorporates into the machine. Sha-bang...
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/80_factory_left_with_temp_control_1.jpg)
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Couldn't resist sharing a picture of Cannonfodder's Gaggia Factory. Look at the wood (cocobolo) he incorporates into the machine. Sha-bang...
([url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/80_factory_left_with_temp_control_1.jpg[/url])
Your picture is not showing up for me. Funny you are posting this as I was admiring his work on HB last night. Beautiful stuff!
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You know how it works, the person who starts the thread only controls it for one post - the first post - after that it's non-stop GCBC thread curveballs. ;-)
;D
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The price is $4 for a half gallon and $8 for a gallon.
And very well might be worth every penny.
I've got no idea about the lactose intolerant bit but if you try it I'd be interested to hear how it did for you.
If you are lactose intolerant Kefir is your beverage.
;)
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Couldn't resist sharing a picture of Cannonfodder's Gaggia Factory. Look at the wood (cocobolo) he incorporates into the machine. Sha-bang...
([url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/80_factory_left_with_temp_control_1.jpg[/url])
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/img/i7-photobucket-com-albums-y297-cannonfodderphoto-factory6.jpg)
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The price is $4 for a half gallon and $8 for a gallon.
And very well might be worth every penny.
I've got no idea about the lactose intolerant bit but if you try it I'd be interested to hear how it did for you.
If you are lactose intolerant Kefir is your beverage.
;)
I have read that the kefir is supposed to be better on the stomachs of lactose intolerant people than yogurt. The only dairy I have found I can consume without upsetting my stomach is homemade yogurt with so much of the leftover whey strained out that is more like the consistency of cream cheese than yogurt. With that said, I have never consumed Kefir.
Alright, who has kefir grains? And I imagine if Raw milk is that good I should probably make the kefir with it as well :) !
Does Cannonfodder have a website?
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Does Cannonfodder have a website?
No, this is as close as you will come: http://www.home-barista.com/marketplace/custom-wood-for-your-espresso-machine-t10642.html (http://www.home-barista.com/marketplace/custom-wood-for-your-espresso-machine-t10642.html)
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The price is $4 for a half gallon and $8 for a gallon.
And very well might be worth every penny.
I've got no idea about the lactose intolerant bit but if you try it I'd be interested to hear how it did for you.
If you are lactose intolerant Kefir is your beverage.
;)
I have read that the kefir is supposed to be better on the stomachs of lactose intolerant people than yogurt. The only dairy I have found I can consume without upsetting my stomach is homemade yogurt with so much of the leftover whey strained out that is more like the consistency of cream cheese than yogurt. With that said, I have never consumed Kefir.
Alright, who has kefir grains? And I imagine if Raw milk is that good I should probably make the kefir with it as well :) !
Does Cannonfodder have a website?
I can help you with the kefir graines
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Excellent. What is the deal with kefir grains? Do they just keep growing / reproducing or do you have to get new ones every now and again?
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Excellent. What is the deal with kefir grains? Do they just keep growing / reproducing or do you have to get new ones every now and again?
As long as you keep putting fresh milk in with them and let them ferment they will keep growing.
Before long you will need to give them away ... or make ginger ale or some other fermented beverage with the excess.
:)
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Excellent. What is the deal with kefir grains? Do they just keep growing / reproducing or do you have to get new ones every now and again?
As long as you keep putting fresh milk in with them and let them ferment they will keep growing.
Before long you will need to give them away ... or make ginger ale or some other fermented beverage with the excess.
:)
Awesome!
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Excellent. What is the deal with kefir grains? Do they just keep growing / reproducing or do you have to get new ones every now and again?
As long as you keep putting fresh milk in with them and let them ferment they will keep growing.
Before long you will need to give them away ... or make ginger ale or some other fermented beverage with the excess.
:)
Awesome!
You will find Kefir's consistency to be more liquid than yogurt.
The amount of probiotics is a super set of what you find in yogurt.
It is good stuff and very healthy for you. The lactose in the milk is used in the fermentation process.
Once you use it for a while you will not look back.
;)
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Excellent. What is the deal with kefir grains? Do they just keep growing / reproducing or do you have to get new ones every now and again?
Its like spider plants, sourdough, creeping charlie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glechoma_hederacea), The Blob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob) and bunnys... you have to learn to let some go now and again or buy a cow..
we have friends with goats and the kefir loves raw goats milk so raw cow milk will probably grow it exponentially as well..
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Dave Stephens (Cannonfodder) does a super job on the mechanical layout of Shaun's Lusso:
http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/lever-espresso-machines-smackdown-t5176-180.html (http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/lever-espresso-machines-smackdown-t5176-180.html) (scroll down 1/5th of the way, to the bottom).
B|Java
(seen on the right, with the Micro Casa on the left)
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/80_lusso_elektra_side_by_side_1.jpg)
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He always does a good job.
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An Italian Caravel, c. 1960. 220 volt. Now that's eye candy.
(http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/Vetrina/caravel_bordeaux/CIMG0180.JPG)
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They are asking $440.00 on eBay for that ... right?
:)
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Shiny.
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If you want one of those look on ebay Italy. They consistently sell for about half of that, if not less. The troublesome part is convincing the seller to send it to the US.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/CARAVEL-ARRAREX-COFFEE-ESPRESSO-LEVER-MACHINE-220V-/160561475268?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item256235aec4 (http://cgi.ebay.com/CARAVEL-ARRAREX-COFFEE-ESPRESSO-LEVER-MACHINE-220V-/160561475268?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item256235aec4)
This is listed from Italy and they will ship it world wide.
:)
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There is a lot of them in Italy though, so they do not command such a high price. I have always been drawn to the design of Arrarex machines. They sure are pretty!
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There is a lot of them in Italy though, so they do not command such a high price. I have always been drawn to the design of Arrarex machines. They sure are pretty!
Does that mean that will be your new $500.00 machine?
:)
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Shiny, but not steamy? I see no steam wand. How will B|Java host Tex for frou-frou?
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No. My student loans do not quite allow for the same types of purchases as my old job in medical implant sales did ;) .
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If you want one of those look on ebay Italy. They consistently sell for about half of that, if not less.
Oh man.....
I really need to head over there and take a look.
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...
Oh man.....
I really need to head over there and take a look.
I wonder if we can get GCBC on a lever-run like we did with vacpots and ceramic cones. W--e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-...
B|Leva'd
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I've known for a while I'm getting one...
Exactly what and when is up for grabs.
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I've known for a while I'm getting one...
Exactly what and when is up for grabs.
Strive then onward, pushing us to critical mass/tipping point.
B|Java
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I've known for a while I'm getting one...
Exactly what and when is up for grabs.
Strive then onward, pushing us to critical mass/tipping point.
B|Java
You too can goad each other on, and publicly call one another out, which is what B|goader did to me, and how I "had" to buy Schotzie. :D
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I don't need much pushing...
I've had it in my mind for a couple years now. I did some preliminary research a while back and have started putting a little $ aside.
It's gonna happen at some point. 8)
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I don't need much pushing...
I've had it in my mind for a couple years now. I did some preliminary research a while back and have started putting a little $ aside.
It's gonna happen at some point. 8)
So what machine has your preliminary research put you onto?
:)
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So what machine has your preliminary research put you onto?
:)
At one point I was pretty sure I was going to get the PV Export but now I am less concerned about what machine I eventually end up with.
I'm going to embrace the quirks of whatever it is and think I'm going to recognize whatever I'm looking or when I see it.
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So what machine has your preliminary research put you onto?
:)
At one point I was pretty sure I was going to get the PV Export but now I am less concerned about what machine I eventually end up with.
I'm going to embrace the quirks of whatever it is and think I'm going to recognize whatever I'm looking or when I see it.
Hmm ... so you had thought the PVL Export but now are not totally sure?
:icon_scratch:
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Exactly..
I'd be happy do work with the stability of that spring but I'd also be ok with something less stable like a La Pavoni.
Sometimes I think I might even prefer the LP or something like a small open boiler to really dig into the intricacies involved.
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So if a PVL Export showed up at a decent price you would go for it?
:)
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I would..
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Flexibility is a good thing and will work well in your favor.
:)
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I have seen used 2 heads PVL on ebay for $500. Of course it doesn't happen very often. I got mine used from 1st-Line for $750.
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Shiny.
Firefly?
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Shiny.
Firefly?
Only if it's very early in the morning or late in the evening.
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I got two pages into the Strega thread and realized there were a dozen more pages. I might read more about it another time but from what I saw in the initial reading it seems like it's end year till it hits N. America?
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The Strega seems a little odd to me with the vibratory pump for pre-infusion. One of the draws to a lever is that you get a passive pre-infusion with the lever in the down position and if you wanted an active pre-infusion you simply pull down the lever, let it rise until you see the first drop of espresso and then pull the lever down again to start the shot extraction. To me that pump is unnecessary, out of place and missing the point of simplicity (and silence) in lever machines.
My other hesitation is portafilter and basket size of 58mm. The difference in taste and flavor from a 58mm basket to something like a 49mm are huge to me. I know 58mm seems to be 'the norm' in commercial espresso machines, outside of San Marco, but there is definitely something to be said for a small shot from a machine with a 49mm basket! They capture nuanced flavors that 58s just miss.
Now if you took that vibratory pump out of the equation I might be interested in playing with one. With that said, you could find an old single group commercial lever on craigslist for $500, put $500 into refurbishing it and have just as good of a 58mm basket lever machine if not better for $800 less, it would be much more unique and probably better looking too. Sheesh, you could have cannonfodder make a custom wood PF handle, steam / hot water knobs, matching tamper, bean scoop and coffee grinder bean hopper cover and still have money to spare.
Also, what is going on with it having two springs? Is one on top of the other? As long as you do not have an old, decrepit , rusted spring in your machine you should get a ramping pressure profile from it.
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I haven't owned my lever for long enough to consider myself knowledgeable about the category but I must confess the vibe pump (unnecessary) and basket size (big) were the first things that went through my head as well.
I didn't buy my lever because of silence but I've become accustomed to a peaceful extraction and I put a lot more favour on it, so much so that a vibe pump noise would spoil the lever feeling for me now. But... if the Strega produces some insanely good espresso and allowed me to take the espresso to places I've never been before, well...
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you could find an old single group commercial lever on craigslist for $500, put $500 into refurbishing it and have just as good of a 58mm basket lever machine if not better for $800 less, it would be much more unique and probably better looking too
Not everyone is as skilled as you are with refurbishing espresso machine. ;)
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you could find an old single group commercial lever on craigslist for $500, put $500 into refurbishing it and have just as good of a 58mm basket lever machine if not better for $800 less, it would be much more unique and probably better looking too
Not everyone is as skilled as you are with refurbishing espresso machine. ;)
There is some skill in there, but there might be more time, patience and resourcefulness ;) .
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For all of those individuals interested in a lever there is what looks to be a great deal on an Elektra MCaL on CL. I put it in Buy-Sell-Trade. They have the carrying case (excellent protection while shipping) for it as well as the limited release murano glass ball topper.
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Wow, if that lever is in good shape that's a great deal.
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I know. If it is in good working order it is a great deal. Back when they sold them with the travel case it was about $100 more and the murano ball adds another $100 too (And it looks cool!).
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The bottomless portafilter let me know right away that something was wrong on my first shot of the morning. I got cocky and had gone with an under-dosed load, some sloppy attention to distribution and an overall casual effort. Right away the stream observed out of the bottomless was horrible, though it might not have been recognized out of traditional double spouts.
In the cup the shot was way off and the image below shows why. I haven't seen a fracture like this for a long time, it was weird but good at the same time - an espresso quality reminder slap in the head.
Sorry about the lighting flare, Keegan was 'helping' me with the flash in remote mode. Getting a 6yr old to hold a flash head in the right direction and distance is always fun.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5561290687_a022ec1a31_o.jpg)
The second shot turned out much better after the slap in the head reminder. A 1oz 50/50 split between Dukundekawa and Senhora de Fatima.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5561290813_4b69680802_o.jpg)
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Call this a "duh?"
In beginning my lever-quest (LQ), I have always assumed that the PVL is a flat, dull stainless steel. Like this:
(http://1st-line.com/images/pontevecchio/LussoOneChrome.jpg)
It wasn't until this morning that I realized it was shiny chrome, like this. Humm...what was I thinking. This has more eye-appeal:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5259/5537935735_312db8bf68_o.jpg)
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The black handles are screw-off so you could go wood if you wanted.
The machine comes is coloured versions as well, I almost went with red, or you could have it custom sprayed any colour you like. I think the PVL is a bit utilitarian in style but as already discussed quite a few levers are.
Maybe so custom dancing goats on each side panel?
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Maybe so custom dancing goats on each side panel?
Nah. The chrome really picks it up compared to how I had it mentally categorized. They could do so much with that drain screen to make the whole machine 'pop.'
B|Java
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I agree, there's lots more they could have done with it and I don't think it would have cost a lot more money to produce a higher level of fit and finish.
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Handsome! The espresso machine is nice to look at, too.
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He's all about the thumbs up right now.
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He's all about the thumbs up right now.
:icon_thumleft:
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Guy is selling this La Pavoni over at CG. In reading many reviews, it typically gets good ratings but one constant criticism is how it jumps around. The design creates a tendency for the base to move during lever action. Watch as he puts his hand on the lever (turn down speakers, he doesn't have consistent volume)
Evocation Coffee's Spitfire Blend through La Pavoni Europiccola (http://vimeo.com/21108851)
$350
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Guy is selling this La Pavoni over at CG. In reading many reviews, it typically gets good ratings but one constant criticism is how it jumps around. The design creates a tendency for the base to move during lever action. Watch as he puts his hand on the lever (turn down speakers, he doesn't have consistent volume)
Evocation Coffee's Spitfire Blend through La Pavoni Europiccola ([url]http://vimeo.com/21108851[/url])
$350
Instability is an indicator of the grind being too fine. When I use my LP, I expect a bit of force on the pull, but nothing like that. ::)
Here's how I use my Peacock. (http://home.earthlink.net/~r_harmon/La%20Pavoni/)
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I find the pavoni are very well built and will last much longer than most pump espresso machine. $350 is a good price!
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That is a good price. It looks like a europiccola chrome w/ a black base. Do you know if it is an 8 cup or 16 cup model? Retail for each seems to be around $700 and $900 respectively. The nice thing about simple levers like the la pavoni is that not a whole lot can be go with them, so purchasing one used is pretty darn safe. As long as the heating element works, the p-stat is in good condition and the seals / o-rings are not ancient you should be good! That is a fair price too. Try to get them to ship it for that price ;) .
Make sure they pack well around the machine. I always line the box with home foam insulation that is 1.5-2" thick, place the machine inside and then jam news paper or something compressible around the machine itself. A this side up note / fragile always help on the box too! Also, request it be shipped and insured through FedEx ground. I have never had a problem with them and they are very reasonably priced. I can not say the same for UPS and USPS who have each graciously given me 2 or 3 ravaged boxed with dented machines inside.
I have never owned a La Pavoni, but I have heard the same complaint that you mentioned above about the base being very light. I am sure that it takes a little getting use to, but I am sure you would find a way to work with it.
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8C
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$350 would be half of retail then. Have you asked how old the machine is, if they have ever had any problems with it, when the last time they replaced the gasket / o-rings was?
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$350 would be half of retail then. Have you asked how old the machine is, if they have ever had any problems with it, when the last time they replaced the gasket / o-rings was?
Is it a post-Millennium model? That's when they switched from 49mm to 51mm portafilters and made some other changes. BTW: LP parts are some of the most expensive: portafilters are ~$150 and filter baskets are ~$35. Pricey!
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That little flexing wobble is it?
That isn't too bad.
You should get it B l deal finder.
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Nah, I am saving up.
B|Java
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For what?
I'm also saving up but dont have a specific machine in mind.
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Nah, I am saving up.
B|Java
I thought you bought everything and sold what you didn't want to keep? ???
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Warrior.. What do you think about potential shot quality of this machine vs other levers?
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A La Pavoni? It is going to be more comparable to an Olympia Cremina than anything. The only real difference is that many would argue the Olympia has superior parts with all (as far as I know) being made in-house at Olympia in Switzerland. The pressure-stat on a Cremina is an incredibly simple, unique, well thought out and high quality part that I have never seen on any other machine. All levers are much more reliable pieces of equipment compared to semi-autos due to the minimalistic approach and lack of wiring / electric parts.
A La Pavoni or Cremina are only going to be as consistent as the person who is pulling the shots. The nice part is that if you are inconsistent with your grind / tamp you can pull harder or softer on the lever to adjust the shot flow. Some people like this aspect. I am not a huge fan of it. With a spring-loaded lever I can always push up on the lever if the shot flow is too slow. The spring also adds some form of consistency to the whole process so I have a constant to which I can dial in my grind and tamp. It is all personal preference.
The reason why I eventually got drawn to classic single group commercial levers is that they have the same if not better craftsmanship of an Olympia Cremina, they have larger boilers allowing me to pull shots for as many people as I would like, they steam like banshies and they are pretty hard to come-by depending one the year, make and model so not everyone has one. I am not a fan of plastic within the manufacturing process of anything. It is cheap, fragile and looks horrible in most cases. Almost no pre - 90s commercial lever uses plastic on anything but the portafilter handles, lever knob and steam / water knobs.
One thing that you get with a home lever vs a commercial one is the small portafilter. This is why the La San Marco single group commercial levers have become such a highly prized oddity. They sport the capacity of a commercial machine yet still have a smaller portafilter / basket at 53mm than all other commercial levers which are 58mm. So you get the same capacity and still can get in on some of the more nuanced flavors one can achieve with a smaller diameter / deeper portafilter basket.
Sorry, I got on a role there. That was way more then you asked for ;) .
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I'm really starting to think about going non spring.
I 'm not giving up my pump machine so I have an internal debate going on about using the sintering for consistency vs. being totally responsible by hand.
I also like knowing I can go order every part from Orphan.
The thing I'm worried about is the absolute potential of shot quality..I want to be positive any failings are my fault and not a machine limitation. Bottom line..can the LP pull on par with the PV?
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I didn't realize that the Cremina was still manufactured in Switzerland. Closest retailer is in the UK:
http://londiniumespresso.com/products/olympia-cremina-espresso-machine, (http://londiniumespresso.com/products/olympia-cremina-espresso-machine,) $3700
http://www.olympia-express.ch//site/produkte/cremina/produktbeschreibung (http://www.olympia-express.ch//site/produkte/cremina/produktbeschreibung)
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For what?
I'm also saving up but dont have a specific machine in mind.
Dit-to. No need to grab a "bargain." Can't have that much plastic (Pavoni) on display. Whatever I buy will be dressed up with olive wood handles. Just reading a ton for now. The anticipation is delicious (just for Jeff).
When the leva' operator is ready, the leva' will appear.
B|Java
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Here is the Olympia Express manufacturers website: http://www.olympia-express.ch/home (http://www.olympia-express.ch/home) . Definitely still handmade in Switzerland.
P.S. - John in regard to gaskets, o-rings and seals I guarantee Orphan gets them all at Mcmaster-Carr, Grainger or the like. With that said, I have never had anything but great service form Orphan and Doug / Barb are very nice, helpful and knowledgable people.
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A La Pavoni? It is going to be more comparable to an Olympia Cremina than anything. The only real difference is that many would argue the Olympia has superior parts with all (as far as I know) being made in-house at Olympia in Switzerland. The pressure-stat on a Cremina is an incredibly simple, unique, well thought out and high quality part that I have never seen on any other machine. All levers are much more reliable pieces of equipment compared to semi-autos due to the minimalistic approach and lack of wiring / electric parts.
A La Pavoni or Cremina are only going to be as consistent as the person who is pulling the shots. The nice part is that if you are inconsistent with your grind / tamp you can pull harder or softer on the lever to adjust the shot flow. Some people like this aspect. I am not a huge fan of it. With a spring-loaded lever I can always push up on the lever if the shot flow is too slow. The spring also adds some form of consistency to the whole process so I have a constant to which I can dial in my grind and tamp. It is all personal preference.
The reason why I eventually got drawn to classic single group commercial levers is that they have the same if not better craftsmanship of an Olympia Cremina, they have larger boilers allowing me to pull shots for as many people as I would like, they steam like banshies and they are pretty hard to come-by depending one the year, make and model so not everyone has one. I am not a fan of plastic within the manufacturing process of anything. It is cheap, fragile and looks horrible in most cases. Almost no pre - 90s commercial lever uses plastic on anything but the portafilter handles, lever knob and steam / water knobs.
One thing that you get with a home lever vs a commercial one is the small portafilter. This is why the La San Marco single group commercial levers have become such a highly prized oddity. They sport the capacity of a commercial machine yet still have a smaller portafilter / basket at 53mm than all other commercial levers which are 58mm. So you get the same capacity and still can get in on some of the more nuanced flavors one can achieve with a smaller diameter / deeper portafilter basket.
Sorry, I got on a role there. That was way more then you asked for ;) .
LP's have one BIG problem Some of them have plastic/nylon pistons, and if you exert too much downward pressure they'll snap.
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I'm really starting to think about going non spring.
I 'm not giving up my pump machine so I have an internal debate going on about using the sintering for consistency vs. being totally responsible by hand.
I also like knowing I can go order every part from Orphan.
The thing I'm worried about is the absolute potential of shot quality..I want to be positive any failings are my fault and not a machine limitation. Bottom line..can the LP pull on par with the PV?
LP's are very group temp unstable. Every 2 - 3 shots you have to stop and reestablish its temperature. No big deal, once you get used to using it, but you have to establish a routine.
Some of my best shots were pulled on a LP, simply because of the attention to detail they demand of the operator. I admit to becoming a bit lazy since I started using pump machines. ::)
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I dont need to pull over 2 shots per session.
Besides my bamboo tinfoil masterpiece will be sitting just inches away..
8)
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I dont need to pull over 2 shots per session.
Besides my bamboo tinfoil masterpiece will be sitting just inches away..
8)
Two LP shots = one Gaggia double. It's one of the few machines I have that makes better singles than doubles.
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You'll need to get a lever smack-down going in Lake Cheddar.
...
Chicago should be the leva' throw-down city. Beyond his actively used ones, Warrior has a half dozen just collecting dust. <grins> Line 'em up and give us a peek.
B|Java
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I dont need to pull over 2 shots per session.
Haha, one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. Just wait till that comes back to haunt you.
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What do you know that I dont know?
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What do you know that I dont know?
That you are going to be heavily revising that 'only two per session'.
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You'll need to get a lever smack-down going in Lake Cheddar.
...
Chicago should be the leva' throw-down city. Beyond his actively used ones, Warrior has a half dozen just collecting dust. <grins> Line 'em up and give us a peek.
B|Java
Unfortunately I do not think the electrical setup in my current place could handle more then maybe 2 or 3 plugged in at once. Not to mention three of the machines are 220v. The Conti Prestina is used daily and setup on a Flo-Jet. The Olympia Cremina is hanging out on top of a bookshelf and ready to go. The San Marco 75 Series Leva is on a table next to the Prestina, and I finished a ground up rebuild on it about a year ago and have been too lazy to take it back apart and put teflon tape on the plumbing connections (whoops I forgot when I put it back together the first time! It is also a 220v which I cannot accommodate at this time). The La San Marco 80 Series is in pieces with all of the internal parts cleaned, but the frame and outer housing have not been blasted and re-powder coated. The '52 Conti Empress 2-group also has all of it's internal parts cleaned, but I have not gotten it blasted and re-powder coated either. The last machine is a Carmali Elle which is also a 220v.
I could piece the smaller 80 Series San Marco back together. It is a 110v and it should work just fine. We would just have to rotate the flo-jet between the Prestina and the San Marco since I only have one. The Cremina is obviously a pourover, so we could have it up and running too. I am sure all of you would find the shot comparisons to be quite interesting between the 58mm Prestina, 53mm San Marco and 49mm Cremina. The only thing we would be missing is a 49mm spring loaded lever.
My girlfriend makes fun of the fact that I pay for a two bedroom apartment while in chiropractic school. What she is actually making fun of is the fact that the second bedroom has a chiropractic adjustment table in it and 4 espresso machines with parts strewed across shelves.
If I find time over any of my breaks from school I would not mind doing something of that nature. I am sure it would be helpful for those playing around with the idea of buying a lever. Heck you might even love one so much you decide you cannot live without it ;) .
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Speaking of the Olympia Cremina ... there is a great auction going on on FleaBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Olympia-Cremina-67-Lever-Espresso-Machine-/250799164858?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item3a64cb8dba (http://cgi.ebay.com/Olympia-Cremina-67-Lever-Espresso-Machine-/250799164858?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item3a64cb8dba)
Price when posted here was $480.00 with 9 hours and 26 minutes left in the auction.
:)
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Another lever. Different ... body is of Copper and Brass. B|WoodHandles would probably spiff it up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Enrico-Copper-Brass-Lever-Espresso-Machine-/180649379239?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item2a0f8ac5a7 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Enrico-Copper-Brass-Lever-Espresso-Machine-/180649379239?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item2a0f8ac5a7)
At time of posting was going for $49.99 US with 1 day and 8 hours left in the auction.
:)
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Watch the action on that Cremina. In the last 10 minutes it will go from $500 to $850-$1100. To me it is funny that they use to sell them for $500 brand new at Zabar's in NY and now they sell them new for $3,700 and actually restrict the number that they even send over to the US. Orpanespresso just worked out a deal with the new owners to be the official US distributor for the new Olympia products.
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Ok ... the last one I will post today ... a Pavoni Europiccola ... asking $375 and he has had it professionally rebuilt it with new seals etc.
http://austin.craigslist.org/hsh/2315206423.html (http://austin.craigslist.org/hsh/2315206423.html)
:)
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Watch the action on that Cremina. In the last 10 minutes it will go from $500 to $850-$1100. To me it is funny that they use to sell them for $500 brand new at Zabar's in NY and now they sell them new for $3,700 and actually restrict the number that they even send over to the US. Orpanespresso just worked out a deal with the new owners to be the official US distributor for the new Olympia products.
Yeah ... now that would be a great example of market price jumping into play.
:)
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That you are going to be heavily revising that 'only two per session'.
Learning curve frustration or smaller shot syndrome?
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Both of you are right plus some more things that I'm sure will require a machine capable of more than 2 per session.
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Watch the action on that Cremina. In the last 10 minutes it will go from $500 to $850-$1100. To me it is funny that they use to sell them for $500 brand new at Zabar's in NY and now they sell them new for $3,700 and actually restrict the number that they even send over to the US. Orpanespresso just worked out a deal with the new owners to be the official US distributor for the new Olympia products.
That Cremina ended up going for $613.00 plus $30.00 for shipping ... totaling $643.00 all in.
Great buy for that machine.
:)
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That was a great buy. I wonder what kind of condition it is in internally? Scale, gaskets, o-rings, etc. Even if it needs to be cleaned up that is a great price!
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that Cremina ended up going for $613.00 plus $30.00 for shipping ... totaling $643.00 all i
:)
There were electrical issues with the unit. The gent couldn't decide if it was 110 or 220; seems it had been rewired and it was very slow to heat up. The manufacturer's voltage stamp had been altered. I am sure that scared many off.
B|Java
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that Cremina ended up going for $613.00 plus $30.00 for shipping ... totaling $643.00 all i
:)
There were electrical issues with the unit. The gent couldn't decide if it was 110 or 220; seems it had been rewired and it was very slow to heat up. The manufacturer's voltage stamp had been altered. I am sure that scared many off.
B|Java
You're right ... I certainly would have stayed away knowing that.
:)
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Ponte Vecchio Lusso, single group. Perfect photo, helps me envision size relative to the Silvia that adorns the counter presently. Not a counter-hog.
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/8101_p41014951.jpg)
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Working my way thru a 16-page discussion on the PCL I hadn't seen before. Shawn's shiny picture piqued my interest in it.
http://www.home-barista.com/levers/initial-impressions-of-ponte-vecchio-lusso-t3591.html (http://www.home-barista.com/levers/initial-impressions-of-ponte-vecchio-lusso-t3591.html)
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Speaking of lever, mine hammered in. Well hammered in is a bit dramatic but it certainly isn't operating to spec.
The Mater pressurestat started acting up and demonstrating inconsistent operation so I talked to Orphan Espresso and they recommended trying the Jaeger pressurestat which I got yesterday. While I was waiting for the Jaeger to arrive I got a chance to manipulate the PVL by using steam release power off/power on, water draw, etc to pull shots that still worked (kind of) doing so ranged my shots above and below the normal pressure operating range that I've found to works best for me with the PVL. It was kind of a fun experiment having realtime insanely high and low pressures to work with but I'm itching to get a solution back in place.
As to the Jaeger, OE thought it might work but it was a bit of an experiment since they didn't have a PVL to play with at their end. I've read lots of opinions on what replacement pressurestat to use and I've seen mention that the Jaeger is a good way to go... but I disagree with the Jaeger as a suitable choice. The problem with the Jaeger is it's lowest pressure setting that my gauge shows is 1.25bar and with its .2bar deadband it moved up to a touch over 1.45bar, way too hot for the PVL. I prefer to operate in the .9bar to 1.1bar range which the Jaeger simply can't do. The PVL's pressure gauge is only a visual reference and might be wrong of course but the water temps and grouphead pressures were too hot at the lowest setting on the Jaeger.
I tried a few different beans, light and dark, different ages and what not but I couldn't pull anything I liked yesterday, even at the lowest point in the deadband. I dropped OE a voicemail and Doug got back to me this evening, we had a good chat and a laugh or two, the final decision is to go with the CEME as it's supposed to be more reliable that the Mater, so he's throwing that in the mail tomorrow and I'll send the Jaeger back.
Fiddling around with the guts of the machine and removing various parts had Keegan enthralled. Holding the screwdriver, 17mm wrench and poking his nose into things had him fully believing that he was pivotal to fixing my lever. He might be more bummed out than I am when I tell him it's not fixed yet. ;-)
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The Mater pressurestat started acting up and demonstrating inconsistent operation
I have the same problem, My pressure set point would stay there for 1-2week and then gradually drift upward. I guess it is time to replace the p-stat on mine too
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The Mater pressurestat started acting up and demonstrating inconsistent operation
I have the same problem, My pressure set point would stay there for 1-2week and then gradually drift upward. I guess it is time to replace the p-stat on mine too
Drop Doug a line at Orphan Espresso and ask him for the same CEME he's sending me.
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I have had pressurestat problems on two levers I have owned. The first was in my Elektra MCaL. I turned the machine on, went to take a shower, and then went back into the kitchen to eat breakfast. Shortly after sitting down I noticed a really weird sound coming from the MCaL, so I walked up to assess the situation. When I went over to look at the machine I could not help but notice the pressure gauge was maxed out. After seeing this I quickly turned the machine off. While, for those of you who have never played with an Elektra MCal, they do not have a pressure release on the boiler. So, I was essentially eating my breakfast next to a pipe bomb waiting to explode.
Anyway, pressurestat inconsistency was in this case, and is commonly, caused by a teeny tiny speck of scale getting into the pressurestat itself. Depending on your exact pressurestat, you may be able to take it apart and break it down more than others. You might want to try this and see if you find anything in there. I believe the Elektra had a Mater and I ended up using a needle to pry the tiny piece out of it. After doing this it was fine.
How frequently do you descale the PVL? Santo, what kind of machine are you having problems with? If it is a commercial machine, and you end up needing to replace it, go with a Sirai. They are absolute tanks.
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I have had pressure stat problems on two levers I have owned. The first was in my Elektra MCaL. I turned the machine on, went to take a shower, and then went back into the kitchen to eat breakfast. Shortly after sitting down I noticed a really weird sound coming from the MCaL, so I walked up to assess the situation. When I went over to look at the machine I could not help but notice the pressure gauge was maxed out. After seeing this I quickly turned the machine off. While, for those of you who have never played with an Elektra MCal, they do not have a pressure release on the boiler. So, I was essentially eating my breakfast next to a pipe bomb waiting to explode.
Anyway, pressure stat inconsistency was in this case, and is commonly, caused by a teeny tiny speck of scale getting into the pressure stat itself. Depending on your exact pressure stat, you may be able to take it apart and break it down more than others. You might want to try this and see if you find anything in there. I believe the Elektra had a Mater and I ended up using a needle to pry the tiny piece out of it. After doing this it was fine.
How frequently do you descale the PVL? Santo, what kind of machine are you having problems with? If it is a commercial machine, and you end up needing to replace it, go with a Sirai. They are absolute tanks.
Since a PID is so easy to install and the price is almost a wash with a Sirai, why would you tolerate the failure prone pstats? Plus there's no constant click/clack of the Sirai's 3 mechanical relays opening & closing every few minutes.
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The click / clacking reminds me to turn it off before I leave my house :) . That is a good option though! You would then just need a portafilter thermometer to follow temp loss from boiler through grouphead to ground coffee, and you could have the ultimate temp controlled PVL.
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Santo, what kind of machine are you having problems with?
I have a PVL also so the sirai is not an option. I descale frequently, maybe every 2 month.
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Santo, what kind of machine are you having problems with?
I have a PVL also so the sirai is not an option. I descale frequently, maybe every 2 month.
I descaled my Elektra frequently too. You just need a tiny piece to get in there and muck things up.
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Santo, what kind of machine are you having problems with?
I have a PVL also so the sirai is not an option. I descale frequently, maybe every 2 month.
Are you connected to a water source with a water softener? It'll cut the calcium to zero.
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To all of you who are saving to purchase a lever you might want to keep your eyes peeled for what Orphan Espresso has on the horizon. I perusing through the Pharos thread on HB and ran into Doug / Barb making a comment about a lever machine they plan on making / selling. Apparently they have the design all worked out and have price quotes for parts they plan to use. It looks like they are planning to integrate a 2-way lever into the design allowing users to either manually control the extraction or let the spring do the work. They also said the brew boiler is closed, PID'd and they worked a thermosiphon into the mix to heat the group. No mention of price or planned release date. No pictures yet either. Could be interesting.
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To all of you who are saving to purchase a lever you might want to keep your eyes peeled for what Orphan Espresso has on the horizon. I perusing through the Pharos thread on HB and ran into Doug / Barb making a comment about a lever machine they plan on making / selling....
I think they are going to have their hands full just moving Pharos machines. There haven't been new restoration projects. Those they have up have been there awhile. I don't know where they would get the time to crank out lever machines. Time will tell.
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For me it's all going to come down to timing.
But with my luck they will roll the machine out 2 weeks after I've made a different choice. :-\
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You could contact them and see about a rough time line. I would be willing to bet he just contracts out to a major machine manufacturer . . . I cannot imagine him trying to hand make / hand assemble machines even if most of the labor / fab work is contracted out to a machine shop. Salvatore in California only pumps out around 1 machine a week. I believe he is fabricating the frames and cutting the housing himself though. With everything else OE has going on I cannot imagine them trying to do this by themselves.
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That machine does sound interesting. As with all new stuff ... a review would be helpful along with experiences that the first owners have in order to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. I would not enjoy being on the bleeding end.
:o
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Calling all wanna be lever owners: http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11526.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11526.0)
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Yeah ... saw that one. Would have been nice to snag it for under $200.00.
:)
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To all of you who are saving to purchase a lever you might want to keep your eyes peeled for what Orphan Espresso has on the horizon. I perusing through the Pharos thread on HB and ran into Doug / Barb making a comment about a lever machine they plan on making / selling. . . No mention of price or planned release date. No pictures yet either. Could be interesting.
I have asked but didn't receive a response.
B|Java
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Bezzera Strega (lever with pump) has been available down under for some time. Pre-orders available in Canada, http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Bezzera_Strega_Lever_Machine_p/sa-bez-streg-b15.htm (http://www.idrinkcoffee.com/Bezzera_Strega_Lever_Machine_p/sa-bez-streg-b15.htm)
"...Brew Group
The group is heated by an heating element that ensures the group's thermostability. Before coffee delivery the pump fills the lever group providing a pre infusion between coffee and water. During delivery the pump stops, and the pressure in the group unit is developed by two springs that guarantee a steady supply and the best oil extraction from the ground coffee...."
Bezzera Strega HX Lever-First Test Pour by Koffee Kosmo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fYXZv07LEI#)
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Looks like a solid unit.
:)
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To all of you who are saving to purchase a lever you might want to keep your eyes peeled for what Orphan Espresso has on the horizon. I perusing through the Pharos thread on HB and ran into Doug / Barb making a comment about a lever machine they plan on making / selling.
Guess both of us missed this early March post from Doug at OrphanEspresso over at HB:
"...We will be offering full OEM Parts support for Olympia Express machines from the oldest models to the newest, worldwide. We will also have available for purchase in North America, the Iconic Olympia Cremina 2008 Manual Lever Espresso Machine. We believe that our extensive experience in repair, restoration & supplying parts for vintage Olympia Express machines, and our association with Olympia Express, Switzerland, will be a positive step for all of us who love espresso!...
I think they run $3700. Here is a 2002 on left, Cremina 67 right, restored. http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/olympia-cremina-2002-evolution-of-design-t887.html (http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/olympia-cremina-2002-evolution-of-design-t887.html)
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/img/i21-photobucket-com-albums-b279-robinsonsj-DSCN0766.jpg)
2008
(http://www.gentlemansgadgets.com/for%20men/images/2008/03/olympia-express-espresso-cremina.jpg)
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Apparently Olympia recently changed hands and has a new owner. With the new owner comes new contracts and Doug seems to have arranged to assume that role in the US. They do retail for $3,700. The previous thing I posted about them building an espresso machine is a different monster. He has apparently designed a machine and is in the final stages of sourcing parts suppliers. I guess I never thought maybe he is sourcing the parts from Olympia?!? I have no idea.
Anyway, I found an individual in Wisconsin with a Conti Empress for sale. It needs a polish, as it could be shinier, but he says the only things that needs to be done to it is the drip tray needs to be re-chromed. Initial asking price is $1k, which is very fair. Especially when you consider Orphan sold their refurbished one about a year ago for around $3k.
Any Wisconsinites interested?
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...I found an individual in Wisconsin with a Conti Empress for sale. It needs a polish, as it could be shinier, but he says the only things that needs to be done to it is the drip tray needs to be re-chromed. Initial asking price is $1k, which is very fair. Especially when you consider Orphan sold their refurbished one about a year ago for around $3k.
Any Wisconsinites interested?
Too old for me. Vintage machines are best for individuals with the mechanical aptitude and skills to change the whatchamacallits, to adjust the psj injomehoots, to torque the uittitoo when the boiler reaches its psi, etc. I am a plug and player who needs something new out of the box that I wouldn't have to ship to Doug within 8 months to adjust its ______________________.
I know how to and do stay on top of PM but beyond that, it becomes a RPITA for me to even think maintenance. Change a gasket, no big deal. Replace an O ring - can do. But that is as far as I want to wander with a tool in my hand near an espresso machine.
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The great thing about levers is that the only things that will ever require maintenance are the boiler gasket, o-rings / seals, possible pressurestat replacement (doubtful and easy if needed) and the heating element (if it ever burns out.).
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And as long as Mike lives within a few hundred miles and can be bribed with goat cheese, you have nothing to worry about. :D
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The great thing about levers is that the only things that will ever require maintenance are the boiler gasket, o-rings / seals, possible pressurestat replacement (doubtful and easy if needed) and the heating element (if it ever burns out.).
So you're saying these require the least amount of maintenance?
Don't be so sure Peter.
;D
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The great thing about levers is that the only things that will ever require maintenance are the boiler gasket, o-rings / seals, possible pressurestat replacement (doubtful and easy if needed) and the heating element (if it ever burns out.).
Sounds like how we used to describe the Y-block Fords. "Nothing wrong with them that jacking up the radiator cap and driving a Chevy beneath it wouldn't fix."
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The great thing about levers is that the only things that will ever require maintenance are the boiler gasket, o-rings / seals, possible pressurestat replacement (doubtful and easy if needed) and the heating element (if it ever burns out.).
So you're saying these require the least amount of maintenance?
Don't be so sure Peter.
;D
Yes. Levers require much less attention than semi-autos due to their lack of parts. The only thing hiding under the hood of a lever is a pressurestat, a boiler, heating element and copper tubing. Other then those parts you have to worry about gaskets, o-ring / piston seals and descaling every now and again.
I am getting pictures from the owner, so I will check out the condition. He owned some sort of concession stand and this use to be the machine he used in it. He said it is fully operational and he has replacement gaskets / springs. He has my interest. One of these just sold on ebay unrefurbished and missing the glass for $1,800.
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The great thing about levers is that the only things that will ever require maintenance are the boiler gasket, o-rings / seals, possible pressurestat replacement (doubtful and easy if needed) and the heating element (if it ever burns out.).
So you're saying these require the least amount of maintenance?
Don't be so sure Peter.
;D
Yes. Levers require much less attention than semi-autos due to their lack of parts. The only thing hiding under the hood of a lever is a pressurestat, a boiler, heating element and copper tubing. Other then those parts you have to worry about gaskets, o-ring / piston seals and descaling every now and again.
I am getting pictures from the owner, so I will check out the condition. He owned some sort of concession stand and this use to be the machine he used in it. He said it is fully operational and he has replacement gaskets / springs. He has my interest. One of these just sold on ebay unrefurbished and missing the glass for $1,800.
Got any pictures of that beauty?
:)
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Not yet.
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Hurry up and buy it, refurb it and then sell it to me for $1150. ;-)
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Haha. If I bought that for $1,000 and completely refurbed a machine like that to 'like-new' condition with re-chroming, new gaskets, seals / o-rings, highest grade of nuts and bolts, rewired, etc. I would have at very least $500-$750, on top of the purchase price, in it and 50-75 personal hours into it. I would ask at least $2,750 if not more for it after rebuilding it. It would be like new, but i am not so sure I would want to sell it after all of that work / sweat . . . . That is one of my problems. I really enjoy restoring these machines to like new original condition, but not many people respect the rarity of the machines or the time / money one puts into every aspect of bringing a machine like it to like new condition.
I will buy it for $1,000 and resell it to you in the same condition for $1,500. I will even throw in a 58mm tamper. Deal? :)
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Hurry up and buy it, refurb it and then sell it to me for $1150. ;-)
Ok, ok, I'll raise my initial offer to $1175. ;-)
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:)
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That Shaun drives a hard bargain.
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That Shaun drives a hard bargain.
He doesn't know it but I have outbid him by a Wisconsin-mile. I have it Gixen-ed.
B|Java
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That Shaun drives a hard bargain.
He doesn't know it but I have outbid him by a Wisconsin-mile. I have it Gixen-ed.
B|Java
Hard to compete against World Class Cheese supplies.
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That Shaun drives a hard bargain.
He doesn't know it but I have outbid him by a Wisconsin-mile. I have it Gixen-ed.
B|Java
Hard to compete against World Class Cheese supplies.
Especially goat cheese.
;D
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Doug is baiting us with a photo-essay on the new Cremina <grins>. He disassembles the unit with super pics and descriptions. A man and his $3650 is soon parted. Why a stainless steel boiler rather than brass?
"...The last model iteration of the Cremina was designated the Model 2008 and this new Cremina arrives with no model designation, so for the sake of naming we shall refer to it as the Model 2011, as there are differences both major and minor between this machine and the previous production model...."
http://www.home-barista.com/marketplace/new-olympia-cremina-2011-from-olympia-express-t17478.html#p205583 (http://www.home-barista.com/marketplace/new-olympia-cremina-2011-from-olympia-express-t17478.html#p205583)
OE (http://orphanespresso.com (http://orphanespresso.com)) has them for sale now. I am starting a pool to pick the GCBC member we believe will be the 1st to buy the newest Cremina. My pick? Here is a map for the 1st GCBC'er to make his/her way to Troy, Idaho to pick one up. Hint: It's a bike path - http://xrl.us/1stGCBCer (http://xrl.us/1stGCBCer) (Link to maps.google.com).
B|Java
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- [url]http://xrl.us/1stGCBCer[/url] ([url]http://xrl.us/1stGCBCer[/url]) (Link to maps.google.com).
Hahahahaha!!
Tell him it's an 11 day unsupported race and set up a finish line clock at OE. That will at least get him in the door. ;)
In 10.5 days.
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Here is street level shot so he doesn't scream by:
http://goo.gl/5pDNY (http://goo.gl/5pDNY)
I have first dibs on the 2 group PV. Heck, I will drive up to the Calgary Stampede and grab it.
B|Java
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That price is and has always been nuts. To think that just 15 years ago you could stroll into Zabar's in New York and pick up a new one for $500 makes it all the more crazy. I am sure they have upped the quality of parts / craftsmanship since then, but I am sure it was not a $3,100 dollar improvement. I have a '91 model sitting in my living room and you could not convince me to pay $1,500 for it, let alone $3,650.
Crazy . . . Just crazy.
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That price is and has always been nuts. . .
Crazy . . . Just crazy.
My hope is that he will open a used auto lever lot with those machines that get traded in for a new Cremina. We'll see.
I think it was a stroke of genius for OE to snag that distributorship. They will grab a ton of eyes that wouldn't have come their way before.
B|Java
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OE also has a good history of re-conditioning the machines and a good reputation amongst the home espresso person for good products and good support.
I think it will be a good move for both companies.
:)
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OE also has a good history of re-conditioning the machines and a good reputation amongst the home espresso person for good products and good support.
I think it will be a good move for both companies.
:)
I'm a bit hesitant about their becoming a distributor, rather than a VAR. There are two importers/distributors who immediately come to mind when I think of misleading statements or outright lies being told about machines.
On the plus side, I don't think OE can sell enough new machines to become seduced by the dark side.
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Haha, you guys are funny. And John, you know me all too well.
Gotta admit that machine is beautiful and I've looked at them a bunch of times before I looked at the PVL. As nice as they are and as good as their reputation is I just can't see the pricing making sense. I think I would get really interested if it was around the $2000 mark. I'm not saying OE should charge less, they should charge whatever the market will support and OE deserves to make a decent profit but somehow the retail price just doesn't make sense to me.
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You physicists and heat engineers -- why is the Cremina's boiler stainless steel rather than brass. I though brass was the 'gold standard?'
B|Java
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You physicists and heat engineers -- why is the Cremina's boiler stainless steel rather than brass. I though brass was the 'gold standard?'
B|Java
Brass isn't Swiss-enough.
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You physicists and heat engineers -- why is the Cremina's boiler stainless steel rather than brass. I though brass was the 'gold standard?'
B|Java
Material doesn't matter - the element is internal so there are no heat transfer issues. Copper & brass were traditional because they're easier to work with than s/s. Off-hand I'd say an 18 gauge stainless boiler is stronger than any of the commercial boilers made of copper or brass.
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Thx, both.
B|Java
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Been looking at the PVL more earnestly. Much of the literature/critiques talk about its forgiving nature compared to the Elektras. I like the size of the boiler for temp stability (3 liters) compared to its brother, the Export's .9L. Both are nickel plated brass boilers.
http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/PonteVecchiocloserlookv3.pdf (http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/PonteVecchiocloserlookv3.pdf)
B|Java
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I like the size of the boiler for temp stability (3 liters) compared to its brother, the Export's .9L.
I've recently been laughed at for thinking I only need to pull a couple few shots per session causing me to second guess my pick of the Export. :-X
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I've recently been laughed at for thinking I only need to pull a couple few shots per session causing me to second guess my pick of the Export. :-X
Doesn't a 30 ounce boiler strike you as small? Friend wants a latte or two and then refill...
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Most of the time I warm up with 1-2 oz and pull one 2oz shot.
~3 oz of water from a 30 oz boiler leaves me plenty of thermal blanket for stability.
That is a typical session for me. Then if the mood strikes me a couple of hours later I do the same thing.
With the Export sitting right next to the tinfoil bamboo mega machine I think I'd be OK for most of the time.
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Most of the time I warm up with 1-2 oz and pull one 2oz shot.
...
Understand. Coming from the 12-oz Silvia (plus reservoir), I guess I want to error on the side of volume.
My wife chuckled at the price of the new Cremina. Then I introduced the PVL. Postured well.
B|Java
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Let's pretend for a moment that you aren't going to want to explore a particular coffee on a sunny casual morning in the kitchen, and let's agree that there's nooooooo way you are going to want to see where that coffee takes you when the mood strikes you.
Because that will never happen.
Now let's talk about what might happen, even though it's a teeny-weeny small might...
You will get the new machine. You will have the coffee to play with. You will want to pull some shots on day one. You will screw up some shots and you will make some shots that... whoops, times up, you ran out of water. Ahhhhhh, what do you care anyway, you only pull one or two shots, right? ;-)
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You will screw up some shots and you will make some shots that... whoops, times up, you ran out of water. Ahhhhhh, what do you care anyway, you only pull one or two shots, right? ;-)
Perhaps I've forgotten what it's like not having years on the same machine/set up and am taking for granted routine.
And I really should not because even testing the dosing funnel put me off balance.
Point taken...
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All I can say is roast a couple of pounds for that first week of ownership, you'll need them. ;-)
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Saw this beauty at the show last week. I like that it shows honest wear and is not restored to showroom condition.
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That's seen a few shots in it's day. Did you taste anything out of it?
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That's seen a few shots in it's day. Did you taste anything out of it?
I didn't from this guy - wish I had but I didn't see anyone operating it the few times I passed by. I didn't see many lever machines in action. Pressure profiling was discussed a lot (tried Stumptown from a La Marzocco Strada was in use at their booth; pretty yummy)
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Score!
I have been working offline with Warrior for a period of time. He has to free up some space and I have decided to help him with with that.<Grins> He is putting in the OE gasket o-ring kit for me -- I will take possession this summer. Deal done.
Just a preview tease. Now, what wood should I go with? Olive wood is much too light for the red.
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To bad Les ( Thor tampers) doesn't do them the Desert Ironwood would be my choice http://www.thortamper.com/ (http://www.thortamper.com/)
Congrats
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Ka-Pow!
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To bad Les ( Thor tampers) doesn't do them the Desert Ironwood would be my choice [url]http://www.thortamper.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.thortamper.com/[/url])
Les has gone inactive since his move to Idaho. Here is some of Dave Stephens work, ironwood:
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/80img_4404_3.jpg)
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Hawaiian Koa might look nice and also be appropriate...
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Where does he live in Idaho? I lived in Boise / will move back there after school. He has a reddish wood on the first page of his thread on HB. Any idea what the wood is? Although the above point about the Hawaiian Koa is a good point with your love of Hawaiian beans.
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Where does he live in Idaho? I lived in Boise / will move back there after school. He has a reddish wood on the first page of his thread on HB. Any idea what the wood is? Although the above point about the Hawaiian Koa is a good point with your love of Hawaiian beans.
Boise, http://www.thortamper.com/ (http://www.thortamper.com/)
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Sung to Paul Simon's "50 Ways to Leave your Lover..."
The problem is all inside your head
She said to me
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To love a lever
She said it's really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To love a lever
Fifty ways to love a lever
[CHORUS:]
You Just slip out the forum, Jachum
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the group, Rup
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the pump, Gump
And get yourself free
She said it grieves me so
To see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways
She said why don't we both
Just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning
You'll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me
And I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways
To love your lever
Fifty ways to love your lever
4 Paul Simon BBC TV (50 Ways To Leave Your Lover) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5--Sje98jI#)
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:laughing4:
(http://)
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I will be dipped.
http://www.tomscott.com/osama/#2OFHecuZWaM (http://www.tomscott.com/osama/#2OFHecuZWaM)
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So now we know. Terror was fueled by caffeine. Great find B|Java!
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Odd, when I go to that link (http://www.tomscott.com/osama/#D475q6ZSN1I) it looks like a goat on the TV....
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Hilarious.
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That's so cool! Wyatt has a way of conveying the message (http://www.tomscott.com/osama/#9mRnx8I-ikg)without words!
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Kees van der Westen, designer of the Mirage lever we sipped from in Twin Cities - here is his gallery: http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/earlier-work.html (http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/earlier-work.html)
The Presto, 1987
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hmmmm I have an idea for the old Brasilia I have in the store room.....
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPXNSJicubSLiZl0ndDcDVPCC3o4RDWYgZCBj9IdkPjIAQOwtb)
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Kees van der Westen, designer of the Mirage lever we sipped from in Twin Cities - here is his gallery: [url]http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/earlier-work.html[/url] ([url]http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/earlier-work.html[/url])
The Presto, 1987
Not bad if you like conventional.
Meet Quasimodo; lever for one group, flow control for the other!
(http://espressionstudio.com/gallery-pics/quasi/quasimodo.jpg)
Or this one;
(http://espressionstudio.com/gallery-pics/chopper/chop12.jpg)
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From Jim Schulman on a demo/lecture by Gwilym Davies, on levers:
...a stopover of Gwilym Davies's US tour, sponsored by Nouva Simonelli. Gwilym Davies is the 2010 World Barista Champion, and runs his espresso shop out of a South London clothing store. There he pulls shots with a 3 group Victoria Arduino lever machine. Nouva Simonelli owns the Victoria Arduino marque...
This sets the stage for what Gwilym said about using lever machines.
He uses mostly coffees from Square Mile Roasters, and expects to spend about 2 to 4 days getting a new blend right. Therefore he uses only one coffee at a time, and sticks with it as long as possible. In his talk, he emphasized that very subtle changes make the difference for shots that pop and shots that are just fine.
This leads to some surprises on how he handles the machine.
The VA lever is an HX. So, if the group is idle, you can pull a "sipper" (a lever using straight boiler water) style shot, with a cool group and an overheated HX, or you can flush, or make paced shots on one group, and get a hotter group with cooler water, like in a conventional pump/HX machine. Most of the people pulling shots went the second route, flushing the group, and equalizing temperatures, before pulling shots. This is what I did, without giving it a moment of thought.
But Gwilym will idle each group after the shot, and let it cool (and the HX water heat), while he moves on to the next group. In effect, he uses the machine at about half the pace per group than a normal pump machine, although with flushing and exhausting, he could run it a full pace. His demeanor overwhelmingly suggests that he is perfectly willing to spend however long it takes to pull the perfect shot; so he wants the machine to always be at the same equilibrium....
http://www.home-barista.com/levers/gwilym-daviess-chicago-talk-on-victoria-arduino-lever-t17771.html (http://www.home-barista.com/levers/gwilym-daviess-chicago-talk-on-victoria-arduino-lever-t17771.html)
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Here's the video for historical reference, I'm sure my technique wills change over the weeks to come.
I'd like to cast a vote for an updated vid with narrative on lessons learned so far.
For future PVL owners and such...
8)
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Only if you know of a new owner or two. ;-)
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I know two owners but only one new.. 8)
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I'll see what I can do for the mysterious new owner.
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Dude, I am loving this machine.
Can you tell me some about what happened when your PVL brainbox fuzzed out, how you fixed it, and if you have adjusted your factory p-stat setting?
Did I mention I am loving this machine?
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Dude, I am loving this machine...
Tactile wins over automation 10 out of 10 times.
B|Levered
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Say John ... are you loving your machine?
???
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You are next MP. . . . The lever vortex is sucking you in slowly whether you know it or not :) .
Drinks are looking good John, but we need to hear back on how they are tasting. For all we know you are doctoring different ingredients in your kitchen together to make what 'looks like a good shot' or what 'looks like well steamed milk'.
Have you gotten any snicker out of the red bird yet?
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You are next MP. . . . The lever vortex is sucking you in slowly whether you know it or not :) .
One obsession at a time.
Shaving is preoccupying me right now.
;)
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You are next MP. . . . The lever vortex is sucking you in slowly whether you know it or not :) .
One obsession at a time.
Shaving is preoccupying me right now.
;)
Is it difficult to get the bikini wedge just right? :o
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You are next MP. . . . The lever vortex is sucking you in slowly whether you know it or not :) .
One obsession at a time.
Shaving is preoccupying me right now.
;)
Is it difficult to get the bikini wedge just right? :o
Not sure. I thought you looked over the bushes to see your neighbor's bikini?
It has a wedge?
???
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Check out the Bikini Portafilter on Home-Barista ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/not-so-naked-portafilter-t18588.html[/url]).
Something wrong with the link.
:)
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Check out the Bikini Portafilter on Home-Barista ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/not-so-naked-portafilter-t18588.html[/url]).
Something wrong with the link.
:)
Works for me. Maybe Mrs. mp has your safe search on and bikini is preventing the link.
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Check out the Bikini Portafilter on Home-Barista ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/not-so-naked-portafilter-t18588.html[/url]).
I can't say this is the dumbest idea I've seen, but I just don't see the point? If you want a single use a single basket - contrary to popular theory, they're just as easy to use as doubles. If you want to split the shot use a regular PF with double spout.
Why do folks have to make things complicated?
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Have you gotten any snicker out of the red bird yet?
I picked this up solely on the recommendation of BiJava. I did not read the like where he said the folks over at HB love it, I just assumed the large block of lever users over there had a decent pick.
So, I'm not sure where people find the snickers quality but for me I've only found it it ~3oz milk.
In straight shots I find something much more intense that I don't have a descriptor for yet but my first impression is "mahogany".
All the drinks I've tasted off this machine with the Red Bird have been good. I'm somewhat shocked I don't have some total sink shots but the machines forgiveness along with this blend are giving me a very friendly introduction to the PVL. I don't think I'd stay with Red Bird very long but it's very stable and gives the base intensity in shots and smooths out to the milk chocolate snickers in small milk so it's very comfort food / bullet proof in that regard.
It's very possible there are layers I'm not reaching yet (do to skill level) but it's a nice easy going blend that isn't a pushover but not to pushy either. I like it.
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Check out the Bikini Portafilter on Home-Barista ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/not-so-naked-portafilter-t18588.html[/url]).
That is interesting it is both cooling down the shot and allowing for the introduction of a little air. Is that the espresso Vinturi Staylor was dreaming up some time back?
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With the amount of Red Bird B|Java was generous enough to give me, I caught the snickers with more shots than not on the peppina. I cannot recall what temp, but the temp did bring it in and out of that zone.
Glad you are liking the new machine! Lever sure are fun, aren't they?!?
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Check out the Bikini Portafilter on Home-Barista ([url]http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/not-so-naked-portafilter-t18588.html[/url]).
Something wrong with the link.
:)
Works for me. Maybe Mrs. mp has your safe search on and bikini is preventing the link.
Yeah ... it seems to work now.
I'll have to talk to the mrs.
:o
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For all we know you are doctoring different ingredients in your kitchen together to make what 'looks like a good shot'
Clearly you can see there is nothing up my sleeve... 8)
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Yeah ... but how about down your socks?
;D
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Yeah ... but how about down your socks?
You got me...I had this one in my sock.
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I am noticing a reoccurring trend in the shot pictures. Do PVLs favor the left hole in the PF? I know my Conti Prestina does a tiny bit.
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Yeah ... but how about down your socks?
You got me...I had this one in my sock.
Your sock pulls good!
;D
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I am noticing a reoccurring trend in the shot pictures. Do PVLs favor the left hole in the PF? I know my Conti Prestina does a tiny bit.
I noticed that as well but I have made no attempts to investigate it yet. There is also a fair chance the bottom will be off before I get around to it.
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John's Fonzie Vector Luster must have taken a dump on him. I haven't heard anything for a couple of days.
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I haven't heard anything for a couple of days.
I got home 3 hours ago to find an empty house... the boss was out on a shopping spree at the outlet stores that I know puts her 2 hours from getting back min.
I flipped the PVL power switch, slammed the TV onto XM radio Hair nation, turned the volume up, and soon enough was pulling my first 4oz er. This Red Bird is performing like clockwork.
Soon after I was on the second 4ozer and Cinderella was swooping in over the sound of the milk steaming.
As I was only 1 sip into my drink I made a decision and by the end of my third sip I was grinding beans for my straight shot. Pulled the shot as I was finishing off my 4oz (this is something totally impossible to do on my old machine).
The shot was good enough to make we want to pull one more before heading out the door to go grab some more milk.
I jumped in my car after a 4 double session and pulled a random CD from the case, cranked the volume way up before the music even started. 3 beats into the first measure and I thought to myself that I bet I could have had one more just as the caffeine kicked in, I turned my stereo up a little more, and smiled really big because today life is good.
This is what people around me probably wanted me to turn down but I couldn't....just couldn't.
25 or 6 to 4- Chicago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLiuMkGCOC4#)
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This is what people around me probably wanted me to turn down but I couldn't....just couldn't.
...
Quite a story. I am not sure you realize that group broke up. The core regrouped and is now just Milwaukee. <pulls air horn>.
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Man, every time I see this thread pop up to the top, I think for a split second that I'm on the wrong site.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Y-AFF8Y1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
"A bit of lever action."
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Classic... turn it up to 11.
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Classic... turn it up to 11.
You know I did.
Dude....I'm so glad you worried the hell out of me by laughing at me when I was considering the smaller boiler Export.
I could have lived with it I'm sure but you were right.
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Classic... turn it up to 11.
You know I did.
Dude....I'm so glad you worried the hell out of me by laughing at me when I was considering the smaller boiler Export.
I could have lived with it I'm sure but you were right.
PVL shots, Chicago on the stereo, livin' the dream.
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Ponte Vecchio Lusso shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWnDKotLUU8#)
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Wow John ... you've come a long way in a short time.
Nice shot!
I need that in my belly!
;D
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Wow John ... you've come a long way in a short time.
Well, to be fair It's probably more the machine than me. The PVL is much more of a partner in the process than any other machine I've ever used. Right now the machine is doing stuff and I'm trying to let it teach me. Much different than other machines that feels like driving a car, this is more like riding a horse.... ???
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Wow John ... you've come a long way in a short time.
Well, to be fair It's probably more the machine than me. The PVL is much more of a partner in the process than any other machine I've ever used. Right now the machine is doing stuff and I'm trying to let it teach me. Much different than other machines that feels like driving a car, this is more like riding a horse.... ???
Well ... if your machine is a horse ... and a wild one ... you are looking like a pretty good Bronco buster.
;D
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I think it was a bit fast (so tighten up your grind a touch) and try to anticipate the gap between lever pulls and make the shot flow more continuously. See how that works out for you in the cup.
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.. try to anticipate the gap between lever pulls and make the shot flow more continuously.
I've been aware of that gap but have not done anything yet.
Tomorrow now has a project. 8)
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try to anticipate the gap between lever pulls and make the shot flow more continuously.
Alright Racer X...how do I do it?
Seems like as soon as I touch the lever in the downward motion it kills my flow. There is a lag time from the point of downward travel that causes me some "hang time" from that instant all the way until I bottom out on infusion and start the release back up.
Logically I'd go for the second pull sooner but (this machine is counterintuitive) doing that stops my flow. :o
What's the deal on smoothing out the pulls to reduce lag time?
Spill it Brother!
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It's not easy because you are trying to keep the flow going but trying not to disturb the puch too much on lever pull. I think you need to do the pull just a bit faster to close that gap. If you go with a finer grind you might find that helps with the puck integrity.
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I think you need to do the pull just a bit faster to close that gap.
You are probably right.
I'm moving very slowly and deliberately for the second pull.
I'll try picking up the pace without slamming the lever down. I'd be better off if I could have had the guy drill out my portafilter when I got it but he was acting very nervous about doing it and that made me nervous so I pulled the plug on it.
Do you normally start your second pull as the first lever tops out (up at the top) or do you start going back down closer to the 3/4's up mark?
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I think you need to do the pull just a bit faster to close that gap.
You are probably right.
I'm moving very slowly and deliberately for the second pull.
I'll try picking up the pace without slamming the lever down. I'd be better off if I could have had the guy drill out my portafilter when I got it but he was acting very nervous about doing it and that made me nervous so I pulled the plug on it.
Do you normally start your second pull as the first lever tops out (up at the top) or do you start going back down closer to the 3/4's up mark?
It depends on what I see in the stream and what I want out of the shot at that time. I did it both ways this morning and both shots were different but great.
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I knew you were going to say that.
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Keepin' it honest...
This is far from polished but it's an actual account of my session today.
Shot is still running a bit fast but I managed to bring it to around 25 seconds. The gap between pulls is smaller but still very evident. I've also treated the viewer with some exhilarating footage of a rag. ;D, and my pour was a herky jerky bit of shenanigans.
But I get the luxury of being a newbie for a while so there.... :P
PVL practice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Z-OgmzS0I#)
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Nice shot John!
:)
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Keepin' it honest...
This is far from polished but it's an actual account of my session today.
Shot is still running a bit fast but I managed to bring it to around 25 seconds. The gap between pulls is smaller but still very evident. I've also treated the viewer with some exhilarating footage of a rag. ;D, and my pour was a herky jerky bit of shenanigans.
But I get the luxury of being a newbie for a while so there.... :P
PVL practice ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Z-OgmzS0I#[/url])
Good job reporting up the real deal video. It's not easy, right?
Two words... bottomless portafilter.
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Keepin' it honest...
This is far from polished but it's an actual account of my session today.
Shot is still running a bit fast but I managed to bring it to around 25 seconds. . .
Shaun can weigh in here but I don't find the extraction time as critical on a lever as I did on a pump. I have had 45-50 second shots that were scrumptious off the Swiss Miss. I don't find 23 seconds as the gold standard with her.
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Yeah....it's ok to share these beginning steps.
That's what I keep telling myself anyhow.
That and after looking at the last two vids, I really should order new burrs. ???
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Keepin' it honest...
This is far from polished but it's an actual account of my session today.
Shot is still running a bit fast but I managed to bring it to around 25 seconds. . .
Shaun can weigh in here but I don't find the extraction time as critical on a lever as I did on a pump. I have had 45-50 second shots that were scrumptious off the Swiss Miss. I don't find 23 seconds as the gold standard with her.
Totally agree.
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I don't really time my shots either. I keep a casual mental count more out of unconcious habit than an actual stopwatch affair.
I agree, the distibution and in-PF handling is critical (in my opinion) as the fracturing/channeling has a massive impact when it 'goes off' due to the lever schtuff. Bottomless PF on the lever was a wicked learning curve but it was an excellent decision and it continues to teach me things about the shot.
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Ive either got to buy a drill bit for it or leave it with Mr unsure when I go on vacation.
He told me to leave it with him for a few days and I said
:o :-\ :'(
I'll get back to you later.
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Ive either got to buy a drill bit for it or leave it with Mr unsure when I go on vacation.
He told me to leave it with him for a few days and I said
:o :-\ :'(
I'll get back to you later.
A machinist shop had both of mine done super fast and they look pro.
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I've got a shop close to me..they have a $60 min charge.
Maybe I should bite the bullet for a pro job.
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I've got a shop close to me..they have a $60 min charge.
Maybe I should bite the bullet for a pro job.
Maybe they drink coffee? ;-)
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Or beer..
I'll be brewing again in about a week.
Big ole IPA is first order of business.
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Machinists love IPA.
But that's not gonna help you with a bottomless portafilter today.
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I have been working over ristrettos - 16 grams of coffee, giving me a 45-second shot. Nothing but pure crema, settling out at 1 oz, 23-25g liquid.
John encouraged me to try a breve, 1/2 and 1/2 for the milk. I nailed the steaming (more throttle) and topped that 23gr with 2 oz of tight 1/2 and 1/2. Oh Mary and Joseph, I am coming home. Sweetness. Bury me in Gibraltar.
B|Java
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Awesome!
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I have been working over ristrettos - 16 grams of coffee, giving me a 45-second shot. Nothing but pure crema, settling out at 1 oz, 23-25g liquid.
John encouraged me to try a breve, 1/2 and 1/2 for the milk. I nailed the steaming (more throttle) and topped that 23gr with 2 oz of tight 1/2 and 1/2. Oh Mary and Joseph, I am coming home. Sweetness. Bury me in Gibraltar.
B|Java
How about some video of those bad boys?
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...I have been working over ristrettos - 16 grams of coffee, giving me a 45-second shot...
On the Cremina, that 45-seconds includes the consensus suggested 10-second pre-infusion.
How about some video of those bad boys?
If I ever get a tri-pod, I would be glad to. Hands are a bit preoccupied on the Swiss Miss. Not going to get a WVA coal-miners' cam-strap-on like Wheelstaylor.
B|Java
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John encouraged me to try a breve..
Is it not magic in that size glass?
It's like ridding around with the top down in a gigantic Cadillac land yacht. Like wearing a bath robe so plush it would make a Detroit Pimp jealous.
Pure luxury...living the dream in a 3.25 oz glass fo' sho'!
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...I have been working over ristrettos - 16 grams of coffee, giving me a 45-second shot...
On the Cremina, that 45-seconds includes the consensus suggested 10-second pre-infusion.
How about some video of those bad boys?
If I ever get a tri-pod, I would be glad to. Hands are a bit preoccupied on the Swiss Miss. Not going to get a WVA coal-miners' cam-strap-on like Wheelstaylor.
B|Java
They quit making the Flip, but one of the things I love about it is its light weight and simple table-top tripod. Work something out so I can see you in the movies. :)
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John encouraged me to try a breve..
Is it not magic in that size glass?
It's like ridding around with the top down in a gigantic Cadillac land yacht. Like wearing a bath robe so plush it would make a Detroit Pimp jealous.
Pure luxury...living the dream in a 3.25 oz glass fo' sho'!
And that bath robe would be purple.
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Now I want a purple pimp robe to drink my breve Gibraltars in....really bad. 8)
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Now I want a purple pimp robe to drink my breve Gibraltars in....really bad. 8)
Definitely feet up resting on an ottoman and wearing purple bath robe slippers, or maybe white, either one would work.
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Classic Doug minutia, as only he could uncover, on the difference in adapters needed for La Pavonni's (Gaggia Factory) gauges. Enjoy.
La Pavoni Europiccola Manometer Adapter Explanation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyZHQ5fdeQk#ws)
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Classic Doug minutia, as only he could uncover, on the difference in adapters needed for La Pavonni's (Gaggia Factory) gauges. Enjoy.
I wonder if it's his reaction to the camera or if he's always garrulous like that?
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Orphan Espresso, 3rd Shot Group Heat Sink: http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-3rd-Shot-Group-Heat-Sink_ep_639-1.html (http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-3rd-Shot-Group-Heat-Sink_ep_639-1.html)
Designed to help cool successive shots (3rd or following) on small units -- Creminas, Pavoni, Elektra MCAL, 49mm units. Machined at same place Penney's bottomless comes from in Wisconsin.
I think I read that it can be anchored in at any shot-step in the routine. Need to take some time and read it again. The Youtube is graphically instructive for all espresso types -- very clear demonstration of temp fluctuation.
B|Java
Photo here: http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-3rd-Shot-Group-Heat-Sink_p_4387.html (http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-3rd-Shot-Group-Heat-Sink_p_4387.html)
(Note: Doug had been playing with insulating gasket between group and boiler. He discovered that created a different problem -- too many draining flushes were needed to get group up to temp).
OE 3rd Shot Home Lever Espresso Machine Group Heat Sink DEMO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aNXyKLvn8w#ws)
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Wander over to H-B and take in this 1955 Gaggia, 3-group. Eyecandysmack! http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-860.html#p238869 (http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-860.html#p238869)
Which introduces, who is going to be the next GCBC member to slide down the lever shoot?
B|Java
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I will be pulling the trigger on my Bosco Lever Demo pretty soon!
I am incredibly jealous of the machines Europeans are able to find with what looks like quite a bit of ease. I cannot wait until I get out of school, have money again, and can take trips to scavenge around countries for machines to ship back here!
That machine is amazing!
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Speaking of Bosco demo here is what I am think for the demo machine. Let me know what you all think. Here is the configuration I am looking at and after the configuration, I will explain my logic on why. Sorrento 1-Group with 110v element / plug, with optional steam cup tray warmer and splash guard. My initial thought was to get the steam control as a knob and hot water control as a lever to show interested parties the difference in overall control you have with one versus the other, but with the steam cup tray warmer being knob activated I am now leaning toward getting both the steam and hot water done as levers. I will also opt for a bottomless pf in place of the single spout pf, which will put the portafilters at 1- 2 spout and 1- bottomless.
The reason I am thinking the Sorrento versus the Posillipo is because the Sorrento is a cleaner machine without decorative trim wrapping it and without gold accented group cover heads. I think that would look nice, but since I will be loading / unloading the machine into / out of my car for demos a more simple machine makes more sense to me. I can see myself knocking the trip off somehow . . . . . I want to go with 110v because almost everyone / every place will have a spare 110v outlet and likely not a spare 220v or 380v. I want to go with the steam cup tray warmer because it is a very classic option that you will only see on the oldest lever machines, it is very functional when it comes to heating large or small quantities of cups, and it will let people see the control you have with a knob. I am thinking levers for the steam / hot water because they are just more unique than knobs and really no other reason.
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Just one leverhead's opinion:
Clean lines, class look, check - agree on the Sorrento http://www.bosco-macchine.com/product%20details.asp?codice=2 (http://www.bosco-macchine.com/product%20details.asp?codice=2)
110, check
1-group, check
No steam tray (this homeboy has 1-3 drinks, pre-warming cups with hot water). Tray is superfluous.
Bottomless, check
Steam, check (would want a knob - lever would steer me away because of unfamiliarity)
Hot water, check (")
B|Java
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I do not think a steam cup tray warmer is a requirement for a home machine, but since I will be doing demos for commercial shops too I thought it would be a nice option to have just to be able to show them what it is (The 2-group and up machines come with it standard). If it was a more common option on modern machines I might pass, but I have only seen it on one of the many classic commercial levers I have restored. So that is why I was thinking about the steam cup warmer. Also, I plan on advertising the demos within the coffee forums to encourage others to come try the machine out. Depending on the size of the group, a steam cup tray warmer might come in handy.
I have mixed feelings about the lever vs knob for steam control too. I feel like I get slightly better control over the steam flow with a knob over a lever, but I think the machine might look a little odd with a knob on one side and lever on the other.
The 1-group machine weighs 99lbs and the 2-group weighs 132lbs. This is the only thing keeping me from going with a 2-group. Knowing that I will likely be solo on most demo runs, a 99lb machine will be hard enough to manage on my own. I am sure commercial shops would appreciate seeing a multi-group demo more, but I am only 1 man :) .
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Good idea with the Pelican hard case. Man are those expensive! It looks like the one I would need is $500 dollars. Wow!
Thank you both for your opinions on the options!
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Anyone with a milligram of interest in levers has to check out this rare vintage Italian lever, Carmali. Wonderful pictures at H-B: http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-940.html#p244732 (http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-940.html#p244732)
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Lever action - next on the list. In the order I predict they will fall and to what they will succumb:
JSpain, La Pavoni
Blzrfn, Europicolla
ECDHunt, model unknown
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Lever action - next on the list. In the order I predict they will fall and to what they will succumb:
JSpain, La Pavoni
Blzrfn, Europicolla
ECDHunt, model unknown
Actually, Mr. Java, I have a La Pavoni on the way.
The Stradavari model has been on my mind for as long as I have owned the Silvano.
Last Friday I pulled the trigger and ordered it from ROASTe.
(http://www.roaste.com/files/imagecache/image_230/files/La-Pavoni-Stradavari-8.jpg)
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...
Actually, Mr. Java, I have a La Pavoni on the way.
The Stradavari model has been on my mind for as long as I have owned the Silvano.
Last Friday I pulled the trigger and ordered it from ROASTe...
Good, this thread has been entirely too quiet for too long. Lever-land.
B|Java
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Congrats Eric,
You are going to love that machine...I'm really enjoying mine!
Mark
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Surely I will find a way to fall into this hole, but I will need to get a lot more focused experience before I decide how deep a hole to fall into. Luckily the three ladies that share my roof have no problem keeping funds scarce so I will relish the time to decide and play with others' toys as often as possible. If this weekend taught me anything, it is: spend more time with fellow coffee friends.
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Congrats Eric,
You are going to love that machine...I'm really enjoying mine!
Mark
Thanks Mark! I am working till next Tuesday evening so staring at the box here on my office floor is killing me - till I can devote real time I don't even want to crack the tape for a peek - the Wedding is scheduled for May 1st, 7:30 PM! :D
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I suggest JSpain skip the smaller models, avoid upgraditis, and just get a Kees van der Western Idrocompresso. Reasoning:
1) No one in the club has a Dutch model
2) Had shots off this in Minnesota at Dogwood and they were stellar
3) US distributors in MN, Chicago, Ithaca, and NC. Find a place to visit and spend some retirement time.
4) Only STaylor and Milo have two - group levers. Go over to the hard-core side in one leap.
5) Don't worry about the price. It is one of those "If you need to ask, you can't afford it." As long as Patti is offering to buy...
(http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/images/700pixels/mirage-idrocompresso-veloce.jpg)
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Dave,
Patti's response, "A giggle!"
That is a sweet looking machine. I'm not asking price! ::)
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I suggest JSpain skip the smaller models, avoid upgraditis, and just get a Kees van der Western Idrocompresso. Reasoning:
4) Only STaylor and Milo have two - group levers. Go over to the hard-core side in one leap.
5) Don't worry about the price. It is one of those "If you need to ask, you can't afford it." As long as Patti is offering to buy...
Bold, I suspect you are mistaken on #4. I think Warrior and Doublesoul have 2 group levers.... they are the true veterans of Levers land.
As for #5 and the lever in the photo... Jim, tell Patti that would fit great in your new house in False Bay (http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1691-False-Bay-Dr_San-Juan-Island_WA_98250_M27607-77727?source=web)
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Based on the last list price I received from KVDW you would be looking at around $8k plus shipping from the Netherlands which is in the neighborhood of $1k for insured air freight with brokerage fees for a 2-Group Idrocompresso. Every now and then they update the price lists without telling you until you call to place an order and all of the machines are priced in Euros, so those prices could change.
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I suggest JSpain skip the smaller models, avoid upgraditis, and just get a Kees van der Western Idrocompresso. Reasoning:
4) Only STaylor and Milo have two - group levers. Go over to the hard-core side in one leap.
5) Don't worry about the price. It is one of those "If you need to ask, you can't afford it." As long as Patti is offering to buy...
That one is a bit small for us!
Bold, I suspect you are mistaken on #4. I think Warrior and Doublesoul have 2 group levers.... they are the true veterans of Levers land.
As for #5 and the lever in the photo... Jim, tell Patti that would fit great in your new house in False Bay ([url]http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1691-False-Bay-Dr_San-Juan-Island_WA_98250_M27607-77727?source=web[/url])
Larry,
A bit small for the two of us!
Patti tried to load pictures on the site today from Portland but they must be too many pixels? Wouldn't load. We'll email several of you and Nancy in Seattle to you. :)
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Warrior, I wish you would have been pulling shots on the Bosco at the SCAA. Cafe Vita wasn't doing a very good job of highlighting the Bosco's ability and I surely wanted to see that machine at its best.
Now on to a lever ramble...
Every lever pulls differently and a lot of lever (and non-lever) people prepare their shots and pull their shots using different methods. I didn't see any common methodology going on behind the Bosco shot routine. When I got behind the Bosco to pull a shot I used general standards but without knowing the intricacies of the routine I ended up with a sub-par shot, similar to the sub-par shot the baristas were pulling.
These lever prep and pull differences behind one machine, fall inline with what occurred in Milo's hotel room on multiple machines as everyone was playing on the lever's. The shots were all over the ice based on grind settings and machine temps/pressures but as things started to normalize the other differences became apparent like my 3-5lb tamp pressure (for lever) versus someone else hitting the coffee bed with a 30lb tamp pressure. Only by hovering over shoulders and talking about standardizing to X could we have got things further normalized as a group. Some levers pre-infuse differently than others, some require a Fellini, some are etc, etc, etc.
All of that got me to thinking as I sat in the hotel room watching all of the action. I think there's something to be said about spending more on a lever as opposed to spending less. That larger budget should help improve thermal issues, back to back shot ability, possible 'wider bandwidth of cooperation', consistency, etc. The more competent the machine the easier the learning curve. As a lever noob I didn't start figuring things out on my machine until I had a couple of hundred shots under my belt, on the same machine. The key for my lever education was I compressed it into a smaller time frame doing multiple back to backs per day in order to start forming trends. With those trends I could then start forming experimental patterns, in order to come back to the trends again. Doing that all on the same machine helped me learn that machine, and having a competent and consistent machine that wasn't holding me back was key to exploring the lever in a deeper fashion. Having a lever that restricts you to a couple of shots a day due to thermals, or whatever, is a frustrating limitation in my opinion. And so for Jim (or whoever) I would recommend looking at a lever that allows multiple (8-10 in a row) pulls per day, pulls that are consistent and predictable, therefore enhancing the experimentation opportunities in a shorter period of time which help create/reinforce a faster learning curve. Levers are fun, shiny, groovy but stepping back from the real-time pressure profiling and tweakability it is ultimately just a coffee device. Hopefully one that makes you want to pull another shot, simply because you are now capable of pulling a good shot.
I've already said I think a one group PVL would be a good machine for Jim but I suppose that Mirage would also do in a pinch. ;-)
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VDK is a thing of dreams.
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John F is on the hunt for a for a PVL in Denver. We'll see if it works out?? Thanks John for your help! jim
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Shhhhh...
;)
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Staylor, I am sorry your experience with the machine was not more positive. As we all know, there could have been a huge number of things going wrong at that station so who knows.
I had a similar experience with a La Marzocco Shot Brewer on Saturday morning. An HB member who lives very close to my parents ordered a Shot Brewer and Versalab about 3 weeks ago. He received the Shot Brewer within days and has been waiting on the Verslab since they build them to order. So he has just been sitting around looking at the Marzocco for 3 weeks without a grinder. Being the kind person that I am, I swung by his place Saturday morning with my Cimbali Junior. We swung by two local cafes that do a pretty nice job and then went back to try and figure out his machine. We burned through 3 lbs of coffee and might have pulled 1-2 good, not great, shots. My commercial lever technique went out the window on shot attempt 3 and from there we tried anything and everything we could think of with no success. It is a very cool machine, but I wish we would have been able to figure out exactly what the machine requires of the barista while I was there!
It sounds like you guys had a blast in Portland!
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Portland was great! It's too bad we didn't really get a chance to dig deep into lever manipulation and milk, I'm kicking myself for not bringing my PVL down.
(That Bosco was sexy looking)
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Looky what I scored today....a little Guernsey Goodness Mrs. Milowebailey says.... "I'm not drinking it, there might be bugs"... so it's all mine.
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Luv me some Old Silvana Creamery.
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Luv me some Old Silvana Creamery.
The cool part about the place is they have a refrigerator outside the place in a shed with a drop box for the money... an honor system. Not cheap though... $10 for a gallon or $5.50 for 1/2 gallon.
I'll be making a latte in the am...
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Man talk about inflation. Mom used to get two giant pickle jars full and I don't think she ever left more than a 5 spot in the coffee can.
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Luv me some Old Silvana Creamery.
The cool part about the place is they have a refrigerator outside the place in a shed with a drop box for the money... an honor system. Not cheap though... $10 for a gallon or $5.50 for 1/2 gallon.
I'll be making a latte in the am...
I think that price is pretty decent for raw.
Besides, you can't put a price on a product that is going to make you smarter, better looking and create awesome coffee drinks in the morning.
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Looky what I scored today....a little Guernsey Goodness Mrs. Milowebailey says.... "I'm not drinking it, there might be bugs"... so it's all mine.
Are you planning to enlighten her on the real story behind this raw milk?
;D
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Milo... You are a long way from 2%, aka the bad old days. ;)
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Milo... You are a long way from 2%, aka the bad old days. ;)
First thing I thought as well. His leash has lengthened.
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Milo... You are a long way from 2%, aka the bad old days. ;)
Any journey that make you more enlightened and better looking is worth it. Here is the progression.
Beginning - 2% mediocre microfoam
Next step - oops wrong milk over frothing, under frothing.. try, try again.
Next - oops did it again - Mrs. Milowebailey "wow that's a good latte", me - "hmmm maybe it's the "wrong milk"..... he, he, he.
Next - Organic whole milk...(what we had in Portland). better yet.. so I bought some. Mrs Milowebailey "can't you make lattes with skimmed or 2%... Me "nope"... her "hmmmmm."
Next - me yesterday - "I found a local creamery that sells "fresh" milk"... oh look there it is... let's stop. Mrs. Milowebailey "I like supporting the local folks, oh look a colt.... how cute". She loves horses.....
Next - Mrs. Milowebailey "Raw Milk, what's that - yuck I'm not drinking that it has bugs"... me - "ok, I'll drink it".
Next ......... we'll see if she notices... and I'll explain steaming it is the same as paturizing it.... 8)
First latte this morning (sorry no photos - had to get out the door)... also realized my steaming pitchers are in the mail from Portland... so I improvised and steamed in a paper cup, then folded the rim for a spout..... not great microfoam or a great pour, but the taste.... noticeably better. I'll be frequenting the Silvana Creamery every trip to the cabin.... now to find a store in Seattle that sells it.
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How long until Milowebailey has a a cow in the back yard... we already know that Mrs Milowebailey likes horses, cows are just large horses, right?
Shaun has part interest in old Molly he's wanting to sell Larry!
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Theno's Dairy on the Redmond/Woodinville Road sold raw milk, and even had goats milk (my favorite for lattes).
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I used to buy it off the back of a truck. The drove to set undisclosed locations and you had to get an invite to the list of times/locations. I can only guess that there was a raw milk bust that caused them to act this way.
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Theno's Dairy on the Redmond/Woodinville Road sold raw milk, and even had goats milk (my favorite for lattes).
Small world. I used to stop there all the time for ice cream when I lived in Redmond and was a skinny construction worker.
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Theno's Dairy on the Redmond/Woodinville Road sold raw milk, and even had goats milk (my favorite for lattes).
Small world. I used to stop there all the time for ice cream when I lived in Redmond and was a skinny construction worker.
Small world indeed; I lived on the top of the hill on the Kirkland side of the valley.
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First latte this morning (sorry no photos - had to get out the door)... also realized my steaming pitchers are in the mail from Portland... so I improvised and steamed in a paper cup, then folded the rim for a spout..... not great microfoam or a great pour, but the taste.... noticeably better. I'll be frequenting the Silvana Creamery every trip to the cabin.... now to find a store in Seattle that sells it.
Steamed in a paper cup and folded the rim, that made me smile.
Be sure not to take the raw milk beyond 140 degrees so you can observe the 'terrior' of the milk. I kinda liked raw at 130'ish, it made most of them 'pop'.
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...
Be sure not to take the raw milk beyond 140 degrees so you can observe the 'terrior' of the milk....
(http://www.farmtoconsumerfoundation.org/cow-goatshareNew.jpg)
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...
Be sure not to take the raw milk beyond 140 degrees so you can observe the 'terrior' of the milk....
([url]http://www.farmtoconsumerfoundation.org/cow-goatshareNew.jpg[/url])
Unless that terrior is thistles, that is.
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The Scottish love a good cup o' thistle milk.
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Lever action - next on the list. In the order I predict they will fall and to what they will succumb:
JSpain, La Pavoni
Blzrfn, Europicolla
ECDHunt, model unknown
One of your picks is incorrect.
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Lever action - next on the list. In the order I predict they will fall and to what they will succumb:
JSpain, La Pavoni
...
One of your picks is incorrect.
It took the horse less than two weeks to tip -- I was going on the horse's mouth. "I really like that Pavoni -- no spring."
Nay. <Neigh>.
B|Java
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Well with the grand master lever puller Shaun guiding, Larry finding, and John F runner her down, testing and shipping I am the proud new owner of a Ponte Vecchio Lussia! John is making a few adjustments in consultation with Shaun and in a couple weeks I'll be pulling a lever and searching for espresso nirvana!
Thanks to Larry for the find and for John F "going up and beyond the call of duty" to make the connection, pick-up, adjustments, and shipping from Denver to OHIO!
BTW, Shaun said, "What's a Cremina???" ;D
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Viva la PVL! 8)
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...
BTW, Shaun said, "What's a Cremina???" ;D
Ignore him. He lives north of the 49th and talks nonsense.
RE: PVL - U-Boat style Kaffeemaschine like Shaun's?
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They spotted each other...
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Could get messy :)
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Well with the grand master lever puller Shaun guiding, Larry finding, and John F runner her down, testing and shipping I am the proud new owner of a Ponte Vecchio Lussia! ...
I believe you are going to be pleased beyond measure. Welcome to the LandOLevers and patience while you learn. Enjoy, Jim.
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Thanks all! Most thanks to Larry for the find and ALL THE HELP John has given! John and Shaun are colaberating on the pressure adjustment. It may be too high? It has all the mods done on it including the move of the pressure guage by Doug from Orphan Espresso. Boiler insulation and such.
How about that blue handle! Patti will steal it for the center of a flower planter! :o
ps, My faithful moded Silvia is for sale in the "Buy/Sell equipment to members" thread. Making room for Ms. Lussia
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Pow!
Congrats, you are gonna love it.
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Here you go John, as per our email convo.
PVL water debit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piJYRvb8Y1c#)
And here's the shot, it's an SO and not quite four days old. Too bad you didn't get to see the lever pull technique Jim, something you can really play around with is how much pre-infusion you hit the coffee bed with before going in for the other two lever pulls. And of course how you pull and when you pull those two will directly impact the pressure profile and rate of flow, etc. I know this shot looks long (if you are looking at a stopwatch) but the curves of the PVL let you get away with this kind of stuff.
El Salvador Cerro Las Ranas Miel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSRz8LC158U#)
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... I know this shot looks long (if you are looking at a stopwatch) but the curves of the PVL let you get away with this kind of stuff.
Jim, Shaun points to a major difference with levers from pumps. As with his PVL, my Cremina puts out wonderful shots even when I run long. There isn't a magical 24-second window as with a pump. I have had stellar shots at 55 seconds as well as 35 seconds. Let your taste buds tell the decision, not a watch.
Second, while I don't know the basket size on the PVL, look for smaller volume shots. Mine run about 1.25 ounces max (~23-25g) with about 15.5 to 16.5 grams of coffee going in. I pull my shots earlier rather than longer.
B|Java
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There isn't a magical 24-second window as with a pump. I have had stellar shots at 55 seconds as well as 35 seconds. Let your taste buds tell the decision, not a watch.
That could be reworded, since shots from my pump would correlate with your results, with regard to the time constraints.
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B|Leversmarts is on point, you can pretty much throw the 'golden rule' of 24 seconds out the window, the lever pre-infusion and realtime pressure profiling will let you get away with 'golden rule murder'.
The PVL will provide small volume shots. In the video I attached I did three pulls, the first pull was to pre-infuse and that doesn't really add much volume to the cup. The next two pulls add approx .5oz each for a total of approx 1oz in the cup. So a total of three pulls to get approx 1oz.
Depending on the coffee I will use approx 14gm doses though I will go up to 15 or 16gms but not too often. 14gms of coffee is a good starting point.
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B|Leversmarts is on point, you can pretty much throw the 'golden rule' of 24 seconds out the window, the lever pre-infusion and realtime pressure profiling will let you get away with 'golden rule murder'.
The PVL will provide small volume shots. In the video I attached I did three pulls, the first pull was to pre-infuse and that doesn't really add much volume to the cup. The next two pulls add approx .5oz each for a total of approx 1oz in the cup. So a total of three pulls to get approx 1oz.
Depending on the coffee I will use approx 14gm doses though I will go up to 15 or 16gms but not too often. 14gms of coffee is a good starting point.
Shaun,
The videos, comments, and insight is deeply appreciated!! Dave's comments are very helpful as well!!
I read a HB review and user guide and they talk about a half pull for infusion and one additional pull for final shot with the PVL. It sounds like that is not the case? Shaun, is your preinfusion pull a full pull or half pull? Do you have a magic waiting period during infusion before the additional pulls? Thanks again for your help!!! jim
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Cool!
I just got home so I can't dig into it yet but I'm on it.
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Shaun and John,
I read through "lever pull basics" and the other lever threads today. I should have read them before asking questions here. There is plenty of info posted to get me started and anwser my questions. Now the fun begins once PVL hits the cabin from Denver! :)
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Hey Jim,
Real quick because I just got home from a ride. With the PVL I never do a half pull (not even sure what that would be), you need to pull the lever handle all the way down in order to 'release water into the basket'. I hold it in the lever handle down position for an amount of seconds to be determined by the coffee, the grind, the dose, what I see and how I feel. Sometimes I hole fully down until I see drops start to fall into the cup, sometimes I'll slowly release the lever before drops fall and as the lever rises up the drops will start to fall into the cup. At that point I do another full pull of the lever handle all the way to its bottom position and release the lever smoothly so it can naturally rise up on its own. At some point in its upward travel I will do another full pull down and again slowly let it move back up naturally on its own.
So to recap, I do a preinfusion pull, then I do two shot volume pulls.
At what point I do the pulls is really dependent on what I see in the stream and cup and what I've trended out from previous shots with the coffee I'm working with. That's the beauty of the lever, you can create any pressure profile you want and 'interfere' with the profile at any time you want.
It's easier to demonstrate than explain, so when you get your machine and you've pulled a few shots and you are ready to start figuring things out just speak up and I'll shoot a video or two for you.
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Thanks again Shaun! That does help alot! I'm excited! Let the fun begin.....! Hopefully not too many sink shots??? ;)
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Since I was in a video mood this morning I shot couple more for you Jim.
Updosed El Sal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuMcizP7-yQ#)
The espresso starting to take affect.
Some more El Sal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBpJnNmaIyE#)
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Shaun,
You're "Dha man!" Nice videos!!! They are great help!!!!!
I didn't ask John if my machine is coming with a bottomless portafilter or not?? I hope so but my guess is "not?" I've surfed around a bit and I can't find a naked one on the web in a quick search. Did you cut your own or buy yours?? jim
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Glad they are helping and be sure to refer back to them during the first couple of weeks with the machine as it will help speed up the learning curve.
As for the bottomless PF's, I had a machine shop do mine though I hear it's not too hard.
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The (bad) whistling barista.
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Falsetto voice; 'What up, Shaun?' ;D
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- ]지고 있던 돈 80% 잃어…†(http://www.korea.com/#)
- 축구천재 메시 72골... 유럽리그 최다 골 경신 (http://www.korea.com/#)
- 펠티에, "91년 처음 한국 왔을 때는 관중 없었다" (http://www.korea.com/#)
TOOOOOOE MATE OO!!
- (http://i.cdn.cnngo.com/sites/default/files/2010/07/20/7_china_screaming_club_exercise_chinese_man_yelling.jpg?time=1279623937)
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Falsetto voice; 'What up, Shaun?' ;D
Pulling your El Sal I had to give a shout out.
-
- ]지고 있던 돈 80% 잃어…†([url]http://www.korea.com/#[/url])
- 축구천재 메시 72골... 유럽리그 최다 골 경신 ([url]http://www.korea.com/#[/url])
- 펠티에, "91년 처음 한국 왔을 때는 관중 없었다" ([url]http://www.korea.com/#[/url])
TOOOOOOE MATE OO!!
- ([url]http://i.cdn.cnngo.com/sites/default/files/2010/07/20/7_china_screaming_club_exercise_chinese_man_yelling.jpg?time=1279623937[/url])
You go home now!
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All your base are belong to us.
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All your base are belong to us.
Ha!
For some reason this makes me think of isotope money.
Thanks a lot for that. :P
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Jim
I'm glad it worked out for you! Welcome to lever land...... sink or swim it will be a fun ride for sure.
I'm having lever withdrawls... in Arizona and other than the coffee I brought, I haven't found anything decent yet... coffee wise.
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At least you've got good Mexican food possibilities. With enough hot salsa, on an awesome breakfast burrito at the local hole in the wall, you should be able to neutralize your taste buds enough that the local coffee doesn't taste as bad.
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Jim
I'm glad it worked out for you! Welcome to lever land...... sink or swim it will be a fun ride for sure.
I'm having lever withdrawls... in Arizona and other than the coffee I brought, I haven't found anything decent yet... coffee wise.
Larry,
I'm exctied to make love to Ms. Lussia! John F will be shipping this week and I hope by next week this time I'll be petting her and trying to get her to purr!!!!!!!! I'm in withdrawl right now too. Ms. Silvia is shipping from the Spain household to her new home today and the counter looks bare. Ms. Silvia has been a great pump for my learning skills and now for the "Main Event!" I appreciate your lead on finding Ms. Lussia and for John F's help in getting her too me, and of course Shaun and his never ending support and knowledge. jim
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1st Line now has a PVL in stainless. Not in the market but if I didn't have Creminas, I have warmed up to the PVLs after hearing Shaun and John sing its praises and seeing its older brother SAMA on display in Larry's suite:
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/ponte_vecchio/ponte_vecchio_export.htm (http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/ponte_vecchio/ponte_vecchio_export.htm)
(http://www.1st-line.com/images/pontevecchio/ExportSS.jpg)
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1st Line now has a PVL in stainless. Not in the market but if I didn't have Creminas, I have warmed up to the PVLs after hearing Shaun and John sing its praises and seeing its older brother SAMA on display in Larry's suite:
Stay tuned for the arrival of #3!
;D
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I'm going to post a couple vids for Jim to consider ignoring...
First off neither of these shots came out great today. There could be any number of reasons for it not least of is the crazy biker named Troy I met last night at a concert. He smuggled 9 of those little bottles of various whiskeys into the show and his wife smuggled 9 more in each bra cup....I'm not making this up.
Troy would not take no for an answer on doing some whiskey shots with our beers. I have a slight headache today. ???
Anyhow I'm sort of happy with the less than perfect turn out of these shots for the purpose intended of posting them.
First up is voodoo #1
Single pulls PVL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaHDWx9tu4o#)
And a closer look into the shot. It got a better in the cup but today is just an average coffee day as fate would have it.
The trick of course is making average good. 8)
Another look at single pull PVL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCnWivEQkc#)
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And a little Gibraltar because it's always a good idea to add one if ever in doubt.
Gibraltar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MVlRGW4pJg#)
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Three videos dude, really? You know what happens to show offs...
(http://gifbib.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fat.gif)
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Levers are fun!
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They are a look at three different things.
My operation of the lever itself.
A look at a shot from close up top.
A look into a shot (glass).
:P
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John,
Voodoo magic!!!!! Thanks for the alternative method of pulls! Can't wait for Mr UPS/FedEx to come down my drive with Ms. Lussia!!
BTW, Jamboree in the Hills is about 20 miles from me. The shots in the bra routine is norm! Sounds like a great concert!! Hope you're feeling better tomorrow! 8)
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Interesting technique John... worth a try on my Sama
Back in leverland after a trip to the Arizona heat. I had a machiatto today at a small coffee shop in Queen Creek. Cup was really small but I poured a little art. The barista said he could kind of do art with a 12 oz cup... I asked if they had something closer to 6 oz, but settled for the small cup because I wanted coffee. Over roasted coffee but the shot pulled nice and they let me pour the milk. What fun!
Got home and realized I have no roasted coffee..... arggg.
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Interesting technique John... worth a try on my Sama
Let me know what you think if you try it.
I'd say to come in between 3 and 4 ounces total drink.
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John F got Ms. PVL into the hands of UPS this afternoon. Scheduled delivery is next Wednesday. Shipping is a pain in the as....! It scares me too death! Ms. Silvia went to her new owner and is schedules to arrive tomorrow and Ms. PVL to me on Wednesday. One UPS and the other FedEx. I PRAY they both make it in good shape....? :-\
B/J shared with me that Espresso Parts cuts portafilters into bottomless $25. I've sent a note to Orphan Espresso about a new Pvl portafilter to be cut. My guess is I "might" have a portafilter and a machine by the middle of next week. The bottomless might take a bit longer for the shipping and cutting??
Anxious for my LEVER!
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I think yours will be fine. I put 75' of bubble wrap
around it, some foam bits left over from a fermentation chamber project, and if you shake the heck out of it nothing moves at all.
The shipping guy told me that the corners are where damage happens and that machine is nowhere near a corner.
I predict safe travel unless they run over it.
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I predict safe travel unless they run over it.
Or Tex intercepts it.
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Or Tex intercepts it.
I kid you not......
When I went to test drive the machine the guy says "do you know somebody named Tex" :o
I would not recommend posting the tracking number unless you want to see the package change course half way and turn towards Friendswood.
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Or Tex intercepts it.
I kid you not......
When I went to test drive the machine the guy says "do you know somebody named Tex" :o
I would not recommend posting the tracking number unless you want to see the package change course half way and turn towards Friendswood.
The repo man is known throughout America.
:o
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I'm waiting for the trip report on that PVL....it should arrive today at camp JSpain.
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I'm waiting for the trip report on that PVL....it should arrive today at camp JSpain.
I have been anxiously watching Ms. Lussia's travels from Denver to "Patti's Park". It arrived in Maumee OHIO up on lake Erie on Monday. It travelled to Columbus, OHIO last night and on to St. Clairsville, OHIO this morning and was loaded on to the local delivery truck this morning. UPS usually gets here late afternoon! It's 11:45am EDST as I post here at the cabin.
I roasted a # of Elida natural on Sunday in expectation of the arrival of Ms. Lussia. I've watched videos, read as many threads as possible, and I'm now read to start the hands on learning of the lever! I ordered a new portafilter from Orphan Espresso to have made into bottomless. I was having it shipped to Espresso Parts to have the bottom removed but I got an email from Espresso Parts that they only remove the bottoms on 58mm portafilters....? Weird, so once it finally gets to me I'll try to find a local machine shop to take it off for me unless someone reading this has an idea?? I don't think that's something I want to try myself due to the equipment needed to do it properly?? I've read of people taking a hack saw to them, but I'm leary of that...? Can't wait to start "pulling" some shots!
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I have heard of people using hole saws as well. Might be tricky and not look as professional as a machine shop.
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I have heard of people using hole saws as well. Might be tricky and not look as professional as a machine shop.
That's what I use - just chuck the hole-saw in the drill press and it goes through brass like a hot knife through butter.
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Mr. UPS came to the cabin about an hour ago. We unloaded the box and the first thing I saw was a BIG HOLE in the side of the box. It looked like a fork lift sent a fork right into the box! I put my hand in the hole and all I could feel was bubble wrap so I thought all things were OK?
I unpacked Ms. Lussia with care and placed her on the counter. I saw no dents except that the drip plate cover had a dent on a corner that needed a pair of plyers to repair and I thought, "OK, if that's all the damage, no big deal." As I continued putting her together I quickly realized the top plate warmer/cover would not fit. The entire cover of the machine had been bent enough that the top was out of kilter by 1/4 inch. That seems to have caused pressure on the steam wand knob that makes it harder to turn. I'll get feedback from John F but I believe we should file a claim. It bothers me that they couldn't do a better job of handling and if we let these things pass we're not fixing the problem.
I then went ahead, filled the boiler, and prayed that no connections or damage to "the works" of the machine happened with the damage. The good news is it "appears" that the operations of the machine are OK?? No water leaks, no steam, no operational issues other than a hard working steam knob.
The first two shots I pulled went too the sink! Very little creama and bitter. I checked the dose and upped it to 16 grams, tamped a bit harder and the third shot appeared to do better and it was drinkable. Still I can see I'll need a lot of fine tuning to hit the sweat spot.
One thing I noticed, and John pointed out, is that the pressure guage reads 16 bars. I believe that is high? However the guage goes too 60 bars thus I'd think 16 bars isn't bad? I'd appreciate feedback on that question....
So, the learning curve begins and fighting with UPS is initiated, jim
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Yikes! Save the packing material and box. They will request that you send them the machine for the claim.
The espresso machine that I got damaged was handled by the seller and the only way he was able to get his money back was to go to small claims court.
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I've seen packages subjected to UPS' extreme handling and it sucks. FYI: Requiring a delivery signature does seem to elicit a bit more care. If nothing else, it gives the receiver a chance to note obvious damage on the receipt, before the delivery person leaves.
I always request that folks take pictures of the package before & during unpacking - just because of what happened to the machine I sent Aaron (all the damage was internal and was caused by inertia, not from external damage).
edited: This wouldn 't have happened if you'd sent it to me first!
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Well, after 2 hours I finally got the claim process handled. I've heard horror stories about claims. I'm glad she still works, that's the main thing. I'm just disappointed it isn't the way it should be. We'll see how the process goes.....
BTW, John F did a WONDERFUL JOB of packaging and shipping! UPS did the damage and I'm thankful too John for all his help!!!
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It's so disappointing.
I wrapped the shizzle out of that package and they could have drop kicked it into the truck and tossed it to the door from 20 feet away without damaging anything.
What do the a holes do? Jab a hole into the box puncturing it and dinging up the contents.
It would be reasonable to think that puncturing boxes is beyond normal handling.
Jerks!
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I have had so many bad experiences with UPS and USPS
(I believe USPS uses UPS for long distance and priority shipping, so the mishandling of boxes by both makes sense.) when dealing with espresso machines that I only use FedEx now. The condition of some of the boxes / machines in the boxes has completely blown my mind. The last time I shipped a piece of equipment the buyer wanted me to use USPS because it was international. I put 'This Side Up Arrows' and 'Fragile' on all sides of the box, which I do when I send any equipment. The normal reaction from FedEx is "Oh, let us put some 'Fragile' and 'This Side Up' stickers on the box to alert the handlers" and the response from the USPS guy was, "We do not follow instructions written on boxes. Our warehouse workers throw or roll the boxes from conveyer belt to conveyer belt and never look at things like this.". My verbal response was not going to be very polite, so I simply stared through him with an astounded look on my face and 15-20 seconds of silence he then said, 'But I can put stickers on this for you which should help a little and we will do our best'.
Every machine I have ever received through FedEx has been in great shape. I find that their delivery people are much nicer in my area as well, but that could obviously just be a coincidence.
Hopefully the machine works for you and the problems are only cosmetic and minor. Have fun with the lever!
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Could it be the union labor that ups uses?
The pay structure for FedEx drivers encourages fast delivery and care of the package.
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I have had so many bad experiences with UPS and USPS (I believe USPS uses UPS for long distance and priority shipping, so the mishandling of boxes by both makes sense.) when dealing with espresso machines that I only use FedEx now..
All of USPS priority mail goes by FedEx, not UPS. All contracted. UPS has one service which is called UPS mail innovations (only final delivery by USPS).
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I have had so many bad experiences with UPS and USPS (I believe USPS uses UPS for long distance and priority shipping, so the mishandling of boxes by both makes sense.) when dealing with espresso machines that I only use FedEx now..
All of USPS priority mail goes by FedEx, not UPS. All contracted. UPS has one service which is called UPS mail innovations (only final delivery by USPS).
Do the packages then go to a USPS warehouse for sorting or straight onto their trucks for delivery?
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...
Do the packages then go to a USPS warehouse for sorting or straight onto their trucks for delivery?
I have been on the FedEx plane as a friend's brother is a an area manager. Priority mail (box of greens or Sam's lever) goes to post office. Post office nightly delivers it to an outsourced handling/sorting firm near airport. They arrange and pack all packages per FedEx specs/scans/loads in small containers. They deliver to FedEx. FedEx loads plane, goes to hub. Handed off in reverse order, with last delivery by USPS. "Ding, dong - Peter's greens for you sir."
For context, in well over 1000 boxes of greens, I have had 3 issues -- all easily resolved. Superb service.
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...
Do the packages then go to a USPS warehouse for sorting or straight onto their trucks for delivery?
If you are talking about UPS mail innovations, it is NOT the standard service but as an exception that a shipper must request. It is all UPS to the final city and then handed off to USPS for local delivery. I do not believe that is the service that John/Jim used.
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We would have used Innovations if they would just advertise
"Hi, we are UPS Innovations, we won't punch a hole in your boxes like regular UPS does" :(
I don't see how they can claim that's not their fault. Hole in box = mishandling.
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I won't us UPS for that reason. They do all they can to not pay for damage caused by them. I use fedex home delivery. Normally it's cheaper anyway.
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OK, trying to put the shipping issue behind.... UPS called and are sending someone out to take a look. It'll be interesting. I'm just thankful Ms. Lussia seems to be operating OK. Just operator issues right now.
I've done about 20 shots. I went back tonight and read the comments again and watched the vids again. I've decided I'm trying for too much volume and over dosing. I'm going to cut back to 14 g as Shaun suggests, tighten the grind a bit more, and I'm doing a blend of Eth Yirg/El Sal Las Delicious. Looking for the slower, smaller shot with more creama and sweet. Haven't found it yet. I'll report back in another 20 shots... I'm looking for the extra portafilter to make it here so that I can go bottomless! I got to believe that will help a bunch in this process??
BTW, I've stuck with Shaun's method and no John F "Voodo Magic" yet...!
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When there is as choice always follow Mr. Roboto unless you like flirting with disaster.
;)
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OK, trying to put the shipping issue behind.... UPS called and are sending someone out to take a look. It'll be interesting. I'm just thankful Ms. Lussia seems to be operating OK. Just operator issues right now.
I've done about 20 shots. I went back tonight and read the comments again and watched the vids again. I've decided I'm trying for too much volume and over dosing. I'm going to cut back to 14 g as Shaun suggests...
Jim, had the same struggle when I started with the Cremina. I was after the "big" shot, wanting a 2 oz shot. I have gone in the other direction, often working with a 24g/1 oz ristretto and couldn't be more pleased. Big ain't all there is.
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I agree.
I was very concerned about moving away from the ~ 2 oz shot
I just didn't know what was possible in the ~1 oz lever pull in ~2 oz of milk. Have no fear of the small drink.
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Update after another 10 shots. Only two into the sink!
I've noticed the diffence in the pressure and lever release dependent upon the grind and tamp. Too heavy tamp, too fine a grind and it is very (too) slow and much higher pressure. You know when it's right by the pressure and the release of the lever. Really neat!
I don't know about all the rest of you but it appears to me that variety of bean makes more of a difference with the lever than the pump machines as it relates to creama and taste?? Thoughts? jim
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...
I don't know about all the rest of you but it appears to me that variety of bean makes more of a difference with the lever than the pump machines as it relates to creama and taste?? Thoughts? jim
Jim, I think that is the difference between a Silvia and the lever rather than a pump vs a lever. B|Java
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My shots are still not consistent but for the most part are really good. Now the latte art leaves a lot to be desired! Milk steaming is inconsistent too and I've watched Shaun's vid many, many times and he is "The Man!" Every now and then I get something that looks half decent...... most of the time, blah!
I guess I'm going to have to get on a plane to Calgary for "one on one" lessons! Good excuse for another trip anyways! :)
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I'd like to sign up for the advanced milk class in Calgary too!
Maybe Shaun can get a share in a cow again if they can keep it out of the thistle for some steamy, raw milk action.
Youse guys go to Calgary. I am going to Brit Col to pick up what should be mine. Have old Bodum Antigua grinder; will travel.
B|Paladin
San Francisco <an>
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Rossland, BC - this is what you get at Camp pull a shot...
- Shots, lots of them.
- Milk, lots of it.
- Mountains, everywhere.
- Guest bedroom, call ahead to make sure John isn't holed up in there.
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Uhm... A weekend camp is alright but nobody stays more than 48 hours in my guest room....emergencies can arise, zombies can attack etc.
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Uhm... A weekend camp is alright but nobody stays more than 48 hours in my guest room....emergencies can arise, zombies can attack etc.
Don't worry John, the 'go to' spot is down in the basement (also known as the man cave) where I've got firing ports and sandbags setup. When the zombies invade that's where I'll be hanging out as the audio/video setup is fantastic and there's nothing better than watching great movies on a big projector screen while waiting for the zombie perimeter alarm to go off.
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I should have known you had it covered.
I'm getting us some hurling sticks.
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Good idea, the boys also have boomerangs from when we were in Australia in 2010. Zombies hate boomerangs.
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Shaun,
Hold that guest room for Patti and I! Zombies, no problem. Man cave, no problem. John F invasion "priceless!"
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Shaun,
Hold that guest room for Patti and I! Zombies, no problem. Man cave, no problem. John F invasion "priceless!"
Bring a slingshot, zombies get confused by slingshots.
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When all else fails, cardio!
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Well I pulled the trigger on a NEW PVL last week and my machine is scheduled to be here on Friday from Vaneli's in California. I pray my shipping experience is better this time than last!!!!??? 1st Line will not ship the PVL due to damage in shipping issues! I debated a few used machines but in all honesty I was scared to have them shipped! This way it's on the seller. If the box looks damaged in any way I'll refuse delivery.
I had ordered a new portafilter from Orphan Espresso for my old PVL and I got it cut yesterday at my friendly hardware store in preparation for the arrival of my new PVL. I don't own a drill press but the owner of the store is a friend of mine and he did a great job of cutting off the bottom for $5! Can't beat a deal like that. I just needed to file the cut edge when I got home so it would be safe. I never had a chance to go bottomless with my used PVL. Espresso parts cuts 58mm portafilters but no other size. I guess they only have the one cutter for the 58 mm??
So, once again to Shaun, Larry, John and others for your guidance and help. I did fall in love with Ms. Lusso and I'm ready to fall in love again with my next girl friend! ;D
I watched Shauns vids again and I'm amped to get going again. The demo KRUPS HX machine just doesn't give the results I'm looking for.
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So, once again to Shaun, Larry, John and others for your guidance and help. I did fall in love with Ms. Lusso and I'm ready to fall in love again with my next girl friend! ;D
Certainly don't tell your wife about the new Italian Miss.
:o
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So, once again to Shaun, Larry, John and others for your guidance and help. I did fall in love with Ms. Lusso and I'm ready to fall in love again with my next girl friend! ;D
Certainly don't tell your wife about the new Italian Miss.
:o
She bought it for me! ;)
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This morning I pulled a straight shot of 4.5 day post-roast Ethiopia Sidama Deri Kochoha.
Good?
Good enough to pull another three shots in small milks.
Glad I bought 30lbs.
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So, once again to Shaun, Larry, John and others for your guidance and help. I did fall in love with Ms. Lusso and I'm ready to fall in love again with my next girl friend! ;D
Certainly don't tell your wife about the new Italian Miss.
:o
She bought it for me! ;)
I take it she is not jealous of the love you have for the Italian Miss?
???
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$5...
Nice!
Can I send mine over with a $5 tucked under it? ;D
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$5...
Nice!
Can I send mine over with a $5 tucked under it? ;D
John,
I owe you "big time!" I'll cover the $5 for you! It turned out nice and filed very easy to a smooth finish. Two more days for the Italian beauty to find her new home!
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YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! Ms. Lusso made it here two hours ago in PERFECT CONDITION!!!!!! Double boxed with two inches of packing inbetween the boxes. Packed very well by Veneli's and the outside box was intact!
I've pulled two wonderful shots with great steamed milk right off the bat! The pressure is actually two bars higher than the other machine? No complaints due to wonderful results! I'm glad I had all that practice on the other machine before my new luv came today!
Heaven in East Central OHIO! Now for some Elida and Amaro Gayo..... can't wait! BTW, Veneli's sent a # of Classic Cremosa with the machine. We'll try that in the A.M. ;D
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Thanks Chris!
Taking a picture is no problem.... getting it posted is a whole different story!! Techie I'm not! We'll see what I (Patti) can do!
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Booyah!
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YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! Ms. Lusso made it here two hours ago in PERFECT CONDITION!!!!!! Double boxed with two inches of packing inbetween the boxes. Packed very well by Veneli's and the outside box was intact!
I've pulled two wonderful shots with great steamed milk right off the bat! The pressure is actually two bars higher than the other machine? No complaints due to wonderful results! I'm glad I had all that practice on the other machine before my new luv came today!
Heaven in East Central OHIO! Now for some Elida and Amaro Gayo..... can't wait! BTW, Veneli's sent a # of Classic Cremosa with the machine. We'll try that in the A.M. ;D
Very happy to hear that your new Italian mistress arrived safe and sound.
May you have many, many years of enjoyment.
;)
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Ringo offered to help with the pictures and posting. I'm off to a great neice's graduation party so the first of the week we'll try and get some pics posted. The Latte art is even getting better. Ms. Lusso does steam nicely! Getting that correct steaming is a key to the art!
Only one bad shot this morning. It was the first one and it's not always the rule but I must admit that the first shot of the morning seems to be the one's that going to not meet standards if I'm going to pull a bad one. Machine warming up I'm sure! Couldn't be the operator!! ;)
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Ringo offered to help with the pictures and posting. I'm off to a great neice's graduation party so the first of the week we'll try and get some pics posted. The Latte art is even getting better. Ms. Lusso does steam nicely! Getting that correct steaming is a key to the art!
Tell you what. I think you and I are the latte art chumps. What if we both practice until July 30. Then, we will forward ONE PICTURE to Ringo (only one picture, per entrant). Ringo will post them in a "blind poll." Loser donates $50 to Grounds for Health.
Rules:
1. Patti can't pour it for you.
2. You have to lose your Buckeye excuses.
3. You can't have someone hold your hand.
4. No whining.
5. No "recounts."
<grins>
Work for you?
Only one bad shot this morning. It was the first one and it's not always the rule but I must admit that the first shot of the morning seems to be the one's that going to not meet standards if I'm going to pull a bad one. Machine warming up I'm sure! Couldn't be the operator!! ;)
Have Patti show you how to do the first shot. Then you can try the 2nd...
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Dave,
You're on!!!
Remember, no reprints from Shaun or Milo for your post!!! ;D
In the mean time I'll send some pics to Ringo of the new machine and a few shots I'm pulling for all to throw stones at!
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Dave,
You're on!!!
Remember, no reprints from Shaun or Milo for your post!!! ;D
Shaun, sure but Milo?! I would rather become a sheep than borrow his slop <wink>.
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Dave,
You're on!!!
Remember, no reprints from Shaun or Milo for your post!!! ;D
Shaun, sure but Milo?! I would rather become a sheep than borrow his slop <wink>.
;D
We might need proof that it's B|latte' made it. Maybe the Czarina should take the photo of Dave the sheep with his pour poor!
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Dave,
You're on!!!
Remember, no reprints from Shaun or Milo for your post!!! ;D
Shaun, sure but Milo?! I would rather become a sheep than borrow his slop <wink>.
;D
We might need proof that it's B|latte' made it. Maybe the Czarina should take the photo of Dave the sheep Goat with his pour poor!
There ... I corrected that for you.
;D
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Dave,
You're on!!!
Remember, no reprints from Shaun or Milo for your post!!! ;D
Shaun, sure but Milo?! I would rather become a sheep than borrow his slop <wink>.
;D
We might need proof that it's B|latte' made it. Maybe the Czarina should take the photo of Dave the sheep with his pour poor!
I like Larry's thinking!!!! I know Dave will have something up his sleeve other than arm hair!!!? This is going to be like taking candy from a GOAT!
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From this morning.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7427738388_dab43fb9a2_o.jpg)
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Shaun,
You're spoiling the voter base! Nice work my friend!
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Dave sent me a photo of a latte pour he did on Friday. No witnesses, but he's on honest guy, right?
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7427738388_dab43fb9a2_o.jpg)
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Dave sent me a photo of a latte pour he did on Friday. No witnesses, but he's on honest guy, right?
...
I couldn't pour that with a whole team of barista world champs coaching me. <Self-deprecating inserts to lull our Bad Boy Buckeye into complacency>.
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Nice Shaun! I see I have a ways to go still.
Here is one of mine from this morning. Over-poured a bit.
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Wish I had a dollar for every time I over-poured.
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From 5mins ago...
Maxing it out.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5238/7434397270_523b78fc6f_o.jpg)
Revisiting dose vs. grind vs. ratios.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5194/7434404076_92157d3f7f_o.jpg)
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Great timing Shaun.
Looks great!
Need that in my belly!
:)
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1 1/2 pulls Yemen Mohka Harasi straight-up. Yum!
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Ringo offered to help with the pictures and posting. I'm off to a great neice's graduation party so the first of the week we'll try and get some pics posted. The Latte art is even getting better. Ms. Lusso does steam nicely! Getting that correct steaming is a key to the art!
Tell you what. I think you and I are the latte art chumps. What if we both practice until July 30. Then, we will forward ONE PICTURE to Ringo (only one picture, per entrant). Ringo will post them in a "blind poll." Loser donates $50 to Grounds for Health.
Rules:
1. Patti can't pour it for you.
2. You have to lose your Buckeye excuses.
3. You can't have someone hold your hand.
4. No whining.
5. No "recounts."
<grins>
Work for you?
Only one bad shot this morning. It was the first one and it's not always the rule but I must admit that the first shot of the morning seems to be the one's that going to not meet standards if I'm going to pull a bad one. Machine warming up I'm sure! Couldn't be the operator!! ;)
Have Patti show you how to do the first shot. Then you can try the 2nd...
I think you boys could add one more penalty for the looser, I think the looser should wear the college team jersey that the winner picks for a week. And pictures should be posted on the site, B/java would look good with an Ohio state shirt, Jim could put on a Michigan shirt for the first time in his life.
Ringo
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Ringo offered to help with the pictures and posting. I'm off to a great neice's graduation party so the first of the week we'll try and get some pics posted. The Latte art is even getting better. Ms. Lusso does steam nicely! Getting that correct steaming is a key to the art!
Tell you what. I think you and I are the latte art chumps. What if we both practice until July 30. Then, we will forward ONE PICTURE to Ringo (only one picture, per entrant). Ringo will post them in a "blind poll." Loser donates $50 to Grounds for Health.
Rules:
1. Patti can't pour it for you.
2. You have to lose your Buckeye excuses.
3. You can't have someone hold your hand.
4. No whining.
5. No "recounts."
<grins>
Work for you?
Only one bad shot this morning. It was the first one and it's not always the rule but I must admit that the first shot of the morning seems to be the one's that going to not meet standards if I'm going to pull a bad one. Machine warming up I'm sure! Couldn't be the operator!! ;)
Have Patti show you how to do the first shot. Then you can try the 2nd...
I think you boys could add one more penalty for the looser, I think the looser should wear the college team jersey that the winner picks for a week. And pictures should be posted on the site, B/java would look good with an Ohio state shirt, Jim could put on a Michigan shirt for the first time in his life.
Ringo
Al,
I'll go for that! No way will this body see a "team up north" shirt on it!!! B/slopartist in an Ohio State Buckeyes shirt makes my heart sing!! Patti's got the camera warmed up. As soon as electric is back on the throw down is ON!
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I think you boys could add one more penalty for the looser, I think the looser should wear the college team jersey that the winner picks for a week.
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Al,
I'll go for that! No way will this body see a "team up north" shirt on it!!! B/slopartist in an Ohio State Buckeyes shirt makes my heart sing!! Patti's got the camera warmed up. As soon as electric is back on the throw down is ON!
You are on. Let's see, Jim Spain in a Florida Atlantic Univ Owls jersey or a Trinity Lutheran Seminary collar.
Does Ohio have a post-secondary university for high school grads?
(http://deepfriedsports.com/iphone-4-wallpapers/college-iphone-wallpapers/florida-atlantic-university-owls-iphone-wallpapers/florida-atlantic-fau-owls-iphone-wallpaper.jpg)
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I think you boys could add one more penalty for the looser, I think the looser should wear the college team jersey that the winner picks for a week.
-----
Al,
I'll go for that! No way will this body see a "team up north" shirt on it!!! B/slopartist in an Ohio State Buckeyes shirt makes my heart sing!! Patti's got the camera warmed up. As soon as electric is back on the throw down is ON!
You are on. Let's see, Jim Spain in a Florida Atlantic Univ Owls jersey or a Trinity Lutheran Seminary collar.
Does Ohio have a post-secondary university for high school grads?
For that quip you should be pelted with stone hard Wisconsin cheddar by the whole Badgers cheerleading squad standing on the 50 yard line while wearing a Buckeyes jersey! ;D
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You go grinderz!!!!!!!!! 8)
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For that quip you should be pelted with stone hard Wisconsin cheddar by the whole Badgers cheerleading squad standing on the 50 yard line while wearing a Buckeyes jersey! ;D
I would be safe. They couldn't hit the broad-side of the barn.
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It turns out my machine is totally filthy.
I somehow didn't notice until I took this pic... Yeesh. :-\
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Better that it's a dirty machine that's getting used rather than a showpiece machine that never pulls shots.
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You make a good point.
I feel bad enough I don't have time sat-tue to pull shots as it is. I'm not sure how some of the multiple machine collectors do it.
The only reason I don't still have my beloved Tinfoil Bamboo is I knew it would only sit in my storage closet and I'd feel bad it was not doing what it loves to do...
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Better that it's a dirty machine that's getting used rather than a showpiece machine that never pulls shots.
Hmmm...
Really? Filthy coffee is better than no coffee?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-dFGciXxLsN60n2cHrfn4DskQrEjeaGTKl121ncqujAQ8pjOslQ)
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Really? Filthy coffee is better than no coffee?
Maybe it is but I was talking about the outside of the machine. :P
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Really? Filthy coffee is better than no coffee?
Maybe it is but I was talking about the outside of the machine. :P
That was funny.