Author Topic: How do they power espresso carts?  (Read 3541 times)

Tex

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2010, 08:21:15 PM »
Oh, I worry a lot about hijacking one of John's threads! ::)

Good.

I am very sensitive you know.....  

Try Vaseline on those sensitive areas, it smooths whatever rubs you the wrong way. :angel:


When the kids were teething we used a product called "Numbsie Gumsie" They cried much less.......


See John? Everyone's worried about you getting a rash! ;D

Offline 7over

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2010, 07:20:46 AM »
Aaron,
The inverter concept is one I had not considered. Thank you for that! I had a 5000 watt generator this year for several weeks at the French Market when we introduced latte's and I needed to power the quickmill, a grinder and our Bunn APS brewer all at the same time.
It seems like I might be able to use a 200 ah battery and a 5000 watt inverter to get me through a 6 hour day assuming a 25% load.
Here's how I figured it:
Bunn Grinder = 9 amps @ 100% duty
Bunn APS Brewer = 11.5 amps @100 % duty
Astra Steamer = 40 amps! @ 100 % duty

Total: 65 amps at 100% duty
at 100% duty, a 100 amp hour battery would last 1.5 hours
at 25% duty the 100 amp hour battery would last 6 hours
a 200 amp hour battery would last 12 hours

Are my calculations correct? (I know that I wouldn't get all of 12 hours out one charge but I only really need 7 hours to get through the whole day)
Passion + Purpose. It's a beautiful thing.

Offline Ascholten

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2010, 08:18:08 AM »
ahh.  Little problem possibly.

You mention amps,  is that AC amps you are talking?   If so then you roughly have to multiply them by 12 to see how many DC amps the battery is going to get hit with.  A brewer im thinking 1200 watts plus,  that's a 100 amp hit on the battery right there, not to mention what the inverter uses or burns off as heat.  100 amps off a 100aH battery is a 1C discharge rate.  The battery is not going to like that very well for the 3 to 5 minutes you are draining it like that.  If your voltage sags too much the interter is not going to like that and will probably trip offline.  Youd be lucky to get 30 minutes off the battery, being constant, it will probably be closer to 15 to 20 minutes.

If I am correct the steamer simply won't work, you will burn up the battery drawing that current for any sustained time.   A few second shot at 4C to start a vehicle is one thing, a few minute shot at 4C is entirely different and will cook it.

Options, go with a bigger battery, VERY bulky and expensive, or two in series for 24 volt, a bit easier to manage but essentially takes up the same amount of room.  FWIW a 100aH sla is about 40 to 60 pounds depending on how well it's built and is the size of a group 27 car battery.  That's pretty much a full size car battery.  also fwiw a group 31 while being bigger is not going to give you significant more ah for the size.,

In your case if it is at all possible, though I am not sure.. id strongly recommend propane.  Mount a 40lb tank on the front of your buggy and have a burner on it to heat the water, it would last a lot longer and in your case be much more efficient than a battery source of heat.  Easy to fill, several locations to fill it at.  Then use the inverter / battery for the juice for the grinder and the electronic part of the coffee rigs.  You could probably get away with a 1kw inverter then too, a LOT smaller, and cheaper. and still get away with one 100aH battery.  If you had room you could get a 10 or 15 gallon kettle / bucket or whatever size fits, heat it at home using whatever method and just keeping a burner under it at simmer to keep it at the temperature you need.

One other note on the inverter,  there are a load of cheap POS chineese knockoffs you can get... DON'T.   In this case you get what you pay for fits extremely well.   They probably won't last a year.  Get a true sinewave too if you can, or at least a fully stepped modified sinewave.  Anything else into a motor (your grinder) is asking for problems (unless the thing has a universal motor which i sincerely doubt) and the thing might not even start under load, (ie your grinder has some beans under the burr already and it's starting up under some torque and not into a free spin) .

If you have no way around the power then to be honest, Id have to say you need a generator. (65 amps AC would be 650 amps minimum DC @ 12V, add 20 percent and we are close to 800 A.   Your show killer is the steamer there really.  A battery bank that can handle that kind of power draw without damage for what you need is essentially a fork truck battery.   A 12v model at around 1500 aH which is what you'd need runs about 1800 bucks delivered from GNC (check prices lead changes daily) and weighs about 700 Lbs.  Oh and you'd need 4/0 wire for that, possibly even 250mcm at least.  that runs a good 10 bucks a foot.

Sorry to rain on your parade but I was not aware the extreme power requirements you were needing.

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

Stubbie

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2010, 09:15:20 AM »
I have a contact selling a couple new gas burner 2 group levers for about 3K (I *really* did look into this option!)

PM for the details

-Stubbie

Offline 7over

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2010, 08:07:26 AM »
Aaron,
Thanks for the information sir. I really appreciate your taking the time to give me a clue on the inverter setup. Yes, those are AC amp rating on all my equipment. I had no idea I needed to multiply by 12! Crazy!

Sounds like I need to find a much quieter generator than the beast we used to power all that stuff. 5000 AC watts is all I need but I don't need the generation of those watts to rattle the windows of the building across the street!

What experiences do GCBC'rs have with quiet generators? Any out there that won't break the bank?
Passion + Purpose. It's a beautiful thing.

Tex

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2010, 08:43:34 AM »
Aaron,
Thanks for the information sir. I really appreciate your taking the time to give me a clue on the inverter setup. Yes, those are AC amp rating on all my equipment. I had no idea I needed to multiply by 12! Crazy!

Sounds like I need to find a much quieter generator than the beast we used to power all that stuff. 5000 AC watts is all I need but I don't need the generation of those watts to rattle the windows of the building across the street!

What experiences do GCBC'rs have with quiet generators? Any out there that won't break the bank?

I have a super-quiet Honda EU6500ISA, an absolute necessity in this part of the country. It's expensive, after all it's got a motor that would work well in a mid-sized motorcycle. Bottom line: Just like your coffee, quality generators costs more than crappy ones.

I will say this about Honda; they make the quietest gens I've ever seen - a big consideration in public venues.

Offline Ringo

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 07:40:48 AM »
Do a google search for BBQ competitors forums, this was my obsesion before coffee. Lots of talk of  generators and converters.  These boys have lots of toys to run in a parking lot.  They use inverters for low loads and honda generators for normal use.  Hondas have a true sin wave and noise is the lowest.  You can get some very small generators.   If I was going to set up a cart I believe I would do a combo set up.  Two 12 volt deep cycle batteries wired in series with an converter for low use times of the day with a generator to kick on and recharge the batteries or use when I was busy.
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Offline Ascholten

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2010, 04:14:13 PM »
any engine driven generator will put out a true sinewave... unless a wobulator is hooked to it that is  ;D

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

Offline MMW

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2010, 04:20:13 PM »
any engine driven generator will put out a true sinewave... unless a wobulator is hooked to it that is  ;D

Aaron

Might not be a frequency you like though :D
"During the early 19th century, most Americans subsisted on a diet of pork, whiskey, and coffee.  ----- Where did we go wrong?

Tex

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2010, 07:13:18 PM »
any engine driven generator will put out a true sinewave... unless a wobulator is hooked to it that is  ;D

Aaron

Might not be a frequency you like though :D

But frequency is irrelevant in something as simple as an espresso machine & grinder.

Offline Ascholten

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Re: How do they power espresso carts?
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2010, 07:22:29 PM »
Depends on how fancy it is Tex.
A heating element could care less about freq.  If it has electronics on it now, then it might be a different story.

Also, a 60 hz motor being fed 50 hz might not perform up to it's specs and will heat up more than design.   Not to mention will run slower too.

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!