High budget or low budget espresso equipment?

[Tex]

Back in the day;

New competitive shooters would spend $300 to get an accurized Gold Cup .45 from Bob Chow, when the chief armorer of the U.S. Army Marksmanship Detachment at Ft Benning could sell them an accurized surplus Army .45 for $125. Both guns would hold a 4" grouping at 50 yards while on a mechanical rest.

Some street racers would spend $3000 - $5000 for a new Olds 442 that would go from 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds, while the knowledgeable racers would buy a junker, toss in a blue printed big-block Chevy & 4-speed, and go racing for titles and win.

Similarly, today some folks spend $1000 - $7000 for great espresso machines, while others prefer to build theirs themselves using the same premium quality parts in the expensive factory built espresso machines.

What's my point? Just because you can buy a great looking factory toy, don't bet the farm when you come up against a home-built hot rod in the hands of a knowledgeable builder/user.

[peter]

I'm moving this to Hot Topics.  


Last night I was awake (wonder why) and was expecting Robert to fall back on this hackneyed debate.  You are wrong, but you won't know you're wrong until you actually find a good deal on a machine that you say you don't need or want.

Reading the countless threads on other sites, like HomeBarista, there are people too numerous to count who made the move from PID'd this' and PID'd thats that have all the mods and tuning capability you could want, up to machines that were built that way with an inherent design.  And every one of them is glad they did, without looking back.

Are these people all nuts?  Are they all too proud to admit they spent $2K they didn't have too?

I'm glad you are truly happy with the results you get from your home-built hot rod, I really am.  I want to bookmark this thread and come back to it if/when you buy that Speedster or Synesso Cyncra.  We'll talk then.

I don't feel I'm being argumentative and don't intend to sound like it.  But then maybe I should because you probably started the tread to get an argument going.  I actually hope the thread dies before long; we've been around this mountain often enough.

[GC7]

Good post Peter. I signed out of Hot Topics for good reason. 

Hopefully this thread will die from all the fish not taking the bait.

[Tex]

I'm moving this to Hot Topics.  


Last night I was awake (wonder why) and was expecting Robert to fall back on this hackneyed debate.  You are wrong, but you won't know you're wrong until you actually find a good deal on a machine that you say you don't need or want.

Reading the countless threads on other sites, like HomeBarista, there are people too numerous to count who made the move from PID'd this' and PID'd thats that have all the mods and tuning capability you could want, up to machines that were built that way with an inherent design. And every one of them is glad they did, without looking back.

Are these people all nuts?  Are they all too proud to admit they spent $2K they didn't have too?

I'm glad you are truly happy with the results you get from your home-built hot rod, I really am.  I want to bookmark this thread and come back to it if/when you buy that Speedster or Synesso Cyncra.  We'll talk then.

I don't feel I'm being argumentative and don't intend to sound like it.  But then maybe I should because you probably started the tread to get an argument going.  I actually hope the thread dies before long; we've been around this mountain often enough.

You're not being all that argumentative, not for you at least. But what you've missed is the primary reason for the move to these machines. The knowledgeable ones are buying the convenience of bigger boilers and separate brew/steam boilers, not significantly improved temp stability¹. Most of them have no expectations of improvement, they just wanted the bigger/brighter toy.

edited: If you'll Google a bit you'll find lots of studies that show the temp stability of various espresso machines. In those studies you'll see graphs showing the intra-shot temp performance of SBDU. HX, & DB machines. Study those for awhile and tell me about how much better the expensive machines are!

[peter]

Most of them have no expectations of improvement, they just wanted the bigger/brighter toy.

Is that what you were thinking yesterday when you mentioned the possibility of a Speedster or GS3?

[ButtWhiskers]

I think somebody should PID Tex's keyboard.

[Tex]

Most of them have no expectations of improvement, they just wanted the bigger/brighter toy.

Is that what you were thinking yesterday when you mentioned the possibility of a Speedster or GS3?

Yes,   but I don't really expect the Whiz Bang 300's to make significantly better coffee than either my modded Gaggia or my modded HX 1-group. I do expect it to make better coffee, but $4000 better? Not likely!

[peter]

Most of them have no expectations of improvement, they just wanted the bigger/brighter toy.

Is that what you were thinking yesterday when you mentioned the possibility of a Speedster or GS3?

Yes,   but I don't really expect the Whiz Bang 300's to make significantly better coffee than either my modded Gaggia or my modded HX 1-group. I do expect it to make better coffee, but $4000 better? Not likely!

You will succumb to the shiny toy!  The devil will make you do it.

[Tex]

I think somebody should PID Tex's keyboard.

Now that I'd spend the extra money for BW! I go through keyboards in ~1 year - I pound on them as a result of learning to type on a manual Remington Rand business typewriter six decades or so ago. Then the old IBM finger maulers taught me to pound even harder, so now these plastic POS don't have a chance of surviving!

[Tex]

Most of them have no expectations of improvement, they just wanted the bigger/brighter toy.

Is that what you were thinking yesterday when you mentioned the possibility of a Speedster or GS3?

Yes,   but I don't really expect the Whiz Bang 300's to make significantly better coffee than either my modded Gaggia or my modded HX 1-group. I do expect it to make better coffee, but $4000 better? Not likely!

You will succumb to the shiny toy!  The devil will make you do it.

That's a gimme - bet the farm on it! I'd have it now, but Mrs T insists on all spare change going into our as-yet-unborn grandson's college fund. I think she's planning on the bugger going to Harvard!

[GC7]

Tex

A happy upcoming Thanksgiving to you and your family. 

Which machine will you be using to keep all of your guests at the big dinner happily caffeinated with espresso based drinks following the turkey?

***note to self*** Why are you helping this thread live?

[Tex]

Tex

A happy upcoming Thanksgiving to you and your family.  

Which machine will you be using to keep all of your guests at the big dinner happily caffeinated with espresso based drinks following the turkey?

***note to self*** Why are you helping this thread live?

I'll be using the HX most likely, simply because of its steam capacity. I'll also be using a Silex vac pot because folks like its theatrical nature.

A happy upcoming Thanksgiving to you and yours as well!

[staylor]

Back in the day;

New competitive shooters would spend $300 to get an accurized Gold Cup .45 from Bob Chow, when the chief armorer of the U.S. Army Marksmanship Detachment at Ft Benning could sell them an accurized surplus Army .45 for $125. Both guns would hold a 4" grouping at 50 yards while on a mechanical rest.

Some street racers would spend $3000 - $5000 for a new Olds 442 that would go from 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds, while the knowledgeable racers would buy a junker, toss in a blue printed big-block Chevy & 4-speed, and go racing for titles and win.

Similarly, today some folks spend $1000 - $7000 for great espresso machines, while others prefer to build theirs themselves using the same premium quality parts in the expensive factory built espresso machines.

What's my point? Just because you can buy a great looking factory toy, don't bet the farm when you come up against a home-built hot rod in the hands of a knowledgeable builder/user.

You. Are. Funny.

In your mind... Is securing a quality weapon from a well respected commercial master gunsmith focused on more than just accuracy, wrong?

In your mind... Does being handy and buying a junker guarantee winning races? If your theory is correct, that junkers win races, maybe it comes down to some folks really like the seats in the Olds 442.

In your mind... Is it wrong to buy a stock espresso machine built from quality parts, or does the machine gain magical properties if you buy all the exact same parts and put them together yourself?

Your last sentence (where you make your point) is a hoot. Are you trying to make a loose connection that spending a certain amount of money automatically turns something into a 'toy'.

[Tex]

Back in the day;

New competitive shooters would spend $300 to get an accurized Gold Cup .45 from Bob Chow, when the chief armorer of the U.S. Army Marksmanship Detachment at Ft Benning could sell them an accurized surplus Army .45 for $125. Both guns would hold a 4" grouping at 50 yards while on a mechanical rest.

Some street racers would spend $3000 - $5000 for a new Olds 442 that would go from 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds, while the knowledgeable racers would buy a junker, toss in a blue printed big-block Chevy & 4-speed, and go racing for titles and win.

Similarly, today some folks spend $1000 - $7000 for great espresso machines, while others prefer to build theirs themselves using the same premium quality parts in the expensive factory built espresso machines.

What's my point? Just because you can buy a great looking factory toy, don't bet the farm when you come up against a home-built hot rod in the hands of a knowledgeable builder/user.

You. Are. Funny.

In your mind... Is securing a quality weapon from a well respected commercial master gunsmith focused on more than just accuracy, wrong?

In your mind... Does being handy and buying a junker guarantee winning races? If your theory is correct, that junkers win races, maybe it comes down to some folks really like the seats in the Olds 442.

In your mind... Is it wrong to buy a stock espresso machine built from quality parts, or does the machine gain magical properties if you buy all the exact same parts and put them together yourself?

Your last sentence (where you make your point) is a hoot. Are you trying to make a loose connection that spending a certain amount of money automatically turns something into a 'toy'.

I've got to find you that animated GIF of the brass billy goat with his balls argued off! My point was, wherever you get your machine, don't assume that factory iron is best. Skill tops deep pockets. Oh, and those factory toys - I've only seen a few of them delivered in tuned condition, so even if you can afford the Whiz Bang 300 you'd better know how to turn a wrench.

[peter]

My point was, wherever you get your machine, don't assume that factory iron is best. Skill tops deep pockets.

Now just imagine, matching your amazing skills with a deep pockets machine.


One other question Robert; do you ever buy espresso beans from a top roaster, or do you limit what you call great espresso to what you can roast pooch yourself?     I guess that's a semi-serious question BTW.