High budget or low budget espresso equipment?

[Tex]

My point was, wherever you get your machine, don't assume that factory iron is best. Skill tops deep pockets.

Now just imagine, matching your amazing skills with a deep pockets machine.


One other question Robert; do you ever buy espresso beans from a top roaster, or do you limit what you call great espresso to what you can roast pooch yourself?     I guess that's a semi-serious question BTW.

I haven't bought pre-roasted beans in a long time. It's not that some aren't great, it's just that I prefer concentrating on improving my skills. As for my skills applied to an expensive machine, why bother. When I buy my GS3 it'll be with the understanding that it's not going to be better than what I already have, and as the 1st Mrs T taught me the hard way, beauty might distract one from the ugly nature of a beast!

[staylor]

My point was, wherever you get your machine, don't assume that factory iron is best. Skill tops deep pockets. Oh, and those factory toys - I've only seen a few of them delivered in tuned condition, so even if you can afford the Whiz Bang 300 you'd better know how to turn a wrench.

I try not to make too many assumptions.

I think we can agree that skill is important, but how about applying equal skill on a low level steam-toy vs a deep pockets machine.

[staylor]

When I buy my GS3 it'll be with the understanding that it's not going to be better than what I already have...

Are you serious?

[peter]

When I buy my GS3 it'll be with the understanding that it's not going to be better than what I already have...

Are you serious?

He must be trolling, and we're taking the bait by keeping this nonsense going.

[staylor]

When I buy my GS3 it'll be with the understanding that it's not going to be better than what I already have...

Are you serious?

He must be trolling, and we're taking the bait by keeping this nonsense going.

I always like to know the level of espresso insanity, kind of like 'Hey, it looks like we just shifted to Texcon 4'.

[peter]

"Abort course!  Change vector 163a!  On a collision course with Planet Goofy in 30sec.!"

[ecc]

I wonder if you counted reasonable tech dollar/hour on time spent, if at least one or two Tex machines wouldn't move into the high budget category. 

[Tex]

My point was, wherever you get your machine, don't assume that factory iron is best. Skill tops deep pockets. Oh, and those factory toys - I've only seen a few of them delivered in tuned condition, so even if you can afford the Whiz Bang 300 you'd better know how to turn a wrench.

I try not to make too many assumptions.

I think we can agree that skill is important, but how about applying equal skill on a low level steam-toy vs a deep pockets machine.

A skilled barista will make better coffee regardless of the device being used. And given a certain skill level the better machine is easier to use. The trick is to have enough experience on all types of machines so one can assess a machine and its capabilities.


edited: Consider the relative value of my machines. A new Classic or Silvia with all the bells and whistles I put in would cost ~$900, and a new HX similar to my ES-1A would tip the scales at >$3000. Not exactly budget class equipment and I guarantee the performance is top notch.

[peter]

edited: Consider the relative value of my machines. A new Classic or Silvia with all the bells and whistles I put in would cost ~$900, and a new HX similar to my ES-1A would tip the scales at >$3000. Not exactly budget class equipment and I guarantee the performance is top notch.

I think ecc was saying to add in the cost of labor performing the mods too.


Just out of curiosity, mainly because I don't know much about the ES-1A, what makes it comparable to a $3K machine?  And which machines would you compare it too?

By jumping to $3K, are you saying it has features that $2K HX machines don't have?

[Tex]

edited: Consider the relative value of my machines. A new Classic or Silvia with all the bells and whistles I put in would cost ~$900, and a new HX similar to my ES-1A would tip the scales at >$3000. Not exactly budget class equipment and I guarantee the performance is top notch.

I think ecc was saying to add in the cost of labor performing the mods too.


Just out of curiosity, mainly because I don't know much about the ES-1A, what makes it comparable to a $3K machine?  And which machines would you compare it too?

By jumping to $3K, are you saying it has features that $2K HX machines don't have?

Sorry, there aren't any $2000 commercial HX machines built to the same standards.

[peter]

edited: Consider the relative value of my machines. A new Classic or Silvia with all the bells and whistles I put in would cost ~$900, and a new HX similar to my ES-1A would tip the scales at >$3000. Not exactly budget class equipment and I guarantee the performance is top notch.

Just out of curiosity, mainly because I don't know much about the ES-1A, what makes it comparable to a $3K machine?  And which machines would you compare it too?

By jumping to $3K, which features does this Bunn have that $2K HX machines don't have?

Sorry, there aren't any $2000 commercial HX machines built to the same standards.

That reply doesn't answer the questions, buddy.  Which $3K machines is it comparable to, and what does the Bunn have that $2K HX machines don't have?

[peechdogg]

The next level of technical espresso geekdom I want to explore is variable times & pressures with pre-infusion. Are you going to tackle that with a SBDU? No, I'm not trying to argue, and I realize that is something no home/semi-commercial single head machine allows for right now .... just wondering if that's something on your Tex-dar...??

[Tex]

The next level of technical espresso geekdom I want to explore is variable times & pressures with pre-infusion. Are you going to tackle that with a SBDU? No, I'm not trying to argue, and I realize that is something no home/semi-commercial single head machine allows for right now .... just wondering if that's something on your Tex-dar...??

That seems to be the geek issue du jour, doesn't it? I'm not sure most folks even understand what it is and what its purpose is.

Preinfusion is having a way to let line pressure water soak the puck before the shot begins. Its purpose is to reduce channeling in the puck by wetting the grounds, letting the puck swell to fill the filter before the 9 bar pressure from the pumps hits it. It was a big thing back in the 90's when some commercial makers added it to their machines.

It seems to me the better way to protect the puck is via pressure ramping; using an air chamber to buffer the 9 bar pressure. Some folks have done this to Silvia's, but I've never seen the results presented as a graph showing the ramping effect.

BTW: My Bunn ES-1A has both features, and you can turn the preinfusion on or off as you wish.

[staylor]

The next level of technical espresso geekdom I want to explore is variable times & pressures with pre-infusion. Are you going to tackle that with a SBDU? No, I'm not trying to argue, and I realize that is something no home/semi-commercial single head machine allows for right now .... just wondering if that's something on your Tex-dar...??

Two words.

Lever machines.

You can go active or passive, decide real time on amount of either or a blend of both.

[Tex]

edited: Consider the relative value of my machines. A new Classic or Silvia with all the bells and whistles I put in would cost ~$900, and a new HX similar to my ES-1A would tip the scales at >$3000. Not exactly budget class equipment and I guarantee the performance is top notch.

Just out of curiosity, mainly because I don't know much about the ES-1A, what makes it comparable to a $3K machine?  And which machines would you compare it too?

By jumping to $3K, which features does this Bunn have that $2K HX machines don't have?

Sorry, there aren't any $2000 commercial HX machines built to the same standards.

That reply doesn't answer the questions, buddy.  Which $3K machines is it comparable to, and what does the Bunn have that $2K HX machines don't have?

I did answer you, but I don't believe you know enough about commercial machines to understand that a more robustly built machine costs more, and the ES-1A is built like a tank. Tear apart a commercial Futurmat, Reneka, Cimbali, CMA, Elktra, Faema, and compare them to a any $2000 prosumer machine and the difference is readily apparent.

Any commercial 1-group HX machine costs >$3000 new - look it up yourself.