High budget or low budget espresso equipment?

[milowebailey]

Too bad you guys don't like the taste of coffee enough to drink it straight.

That's just not true!  I love espresso and if you've ever seem my jabs at B|Milwaukiatto© for his lactose habit, you'd know that.  With that said some folks do like lattes and I'm ok with that too, so I do make lattes for friends who think *$ froo froos are coffee... then I make them a latte where you can taste the coffee, with true microfoam and lately decent latte art.  I don't make them often enough to do it well all the time on my Gaggia, and I have the Gaggia at the cabin for Americanos.  But I can make a pretty good latte on my Brasilia day in day out.

As you know I think the Gaggia is a great inexpensive espresso machine and can say without exception my commercial machines are a step up from them... the question is how big of a step up. and is it worth it.

You said yourself you use the Bunn for lattes instead of a Gaggia, which proves my point.

[Tex]

Too bad you guys don't like the taste of coffee enough to drink it straight.

That's just not true!  I love espresso and if you've ever seem my jabs at B|Milwaukiatto© for his lactose habit, you'd know that.  With that said some folks do like lattes and I'm ok with that too, so I do make lattes for friends who think *$ froo froos are coffee... then I make them a latte where you can taste the coffee, with true microfoam and lately decent latte art.  I don't make them often enough to do it well all the time on my Gaggia, and I have the Gaggia at the cabin for Americanos.  But I can make a pretty good latte on my Brasilia day in day out.

As you know I think the Gaggia is a great inexpensive espresso machine and can say without exception my commercial machines are a step up from them... the question is how big of a step up. and is it worth it.

You said yourself you use the Bunn for lattes instead of a Gaggia, which proves my point.

I use the Bunn when I have enough guests to outstrip the Gaggia's steam capacity - 2 caps is its limit. My modded Gaggia doesn't take a backseat to any machine when it comes to making 2 oz shots for my Americanos 2 - 3 times a day. It's as temp stable within those confines as any machine made.

Again, you've got to know your machines limitations and stay within them.

[Warrior372]

From this morning.

2) your tamping technique seems kinda ...... light.  I remember you really putting that 30 lbs of pressure before... now it seems you are putting much less.  Either that or you have really strong fingers.  I'm curious if you went with a lighter tamp for a finer grind or if the lever needs less of a tamp.

In general, most lever machines prefer a finer grind and lighter tamp. That is not to say you can not do whatever you want, but I typically see better results with the first approach. It really just depends on the coffee.

[BoldJava]

That's just not true!  I love espresso and if you've ever seem my jabs at B|Milwaukiatto© for his lactose habit...

While I appreciate the cameo reference, you will *not* drag me into this 6-page thread to nowhere <grins>.  

[/Alfred Hitchcock]

B|Milkman

[Tex]

That's just not true!  I love espresso and if you've ever seem my jabs at B|Milwaukiatto© for his lactose habit...

While I appreciate the cameo reference, you will *not* drag me into this 6-page thread to nowhere <grins>.  

[/Alfred Hitchcock]

B|Milkman

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in.

[CAGurl]

 You mean that a person can't get a grinder and machine dialed in and just pull successive good shots?

I don't know the answer to that.  It might be true, but since I only ever pull but one or maybe two shots in a day, it's never what I'm trying to accomplish.  I make the adjustments for the age of the beans, and any differences in my tamp by watching the flow.  I don't usually reset the grinder (Rancilio MD-50) except at the start of a new batch of beans, which is usually about once a week.

Susan

[crholliday]

You mean that a person can't get a grinder and machine dialed in and just pull successive good shots?

How "good" does a good shot have to be? Do you drink sink shots or do you sink them? Do you look at the espresso you just pulled with your freshly microfoamed pitcher of milk and decide to throw it all out because your shot is too blond or do you just pour it in there and drink it anyway?

In a production environment, the barista will make constant tweaks to the grinder. It may be once an hour or once every 20 shots or most likely as the variability hits her tolerance and signals the portion of the brain that controls quality to initiate a change in grind setting. In a home environment, the stakes are different.

Can it be done? Yes. But you would have to be uber talented with an incredible attention to dose, dress, tamp and you would probably have to adjust your volumetric control to pair with your puck. At the end of the day, it is easier for me to just watch the start and the finish of every shot.

[staylor]

From this morning.

Shaun

I noticed two things in this video.

1) looks like you have a new grinder... curious why the change and if you like it?
2) your tamping technique seems kinda ...... light.  I remember you really putting that 30 lbs of pressure before... now it seems you are putting much less.  Either that or you have really strong fingers.  I'm curious if you went with a lighter tamp for a finer grind or if the lever needs less of a tamp.

BTW...  this video shows my point.  You can watch the end of the shot and be steaming the milk.  I'd love to see a video of Tex or CAGurl with their Gaggia technique making a latte.  I'm not saying they can't make a good latte, because I have on a Gaggia... it's just not as easy nor quickly repeatable.

I got the Vario for a couple of reason (I still have the Macap), first one was noise. I know 'noisy' sounds dumb but when we have guests over and I crank up the Macap it kicks out a lot of noise and it's hard to hold conversations, I'd read the Vario is quiet - and it is. The second reason was ease of setting... for my wife. No matter how I marked up the Macap, or how I explained it, I would shiver when I'd see good beans getting ground on the wrong settings for her Aeropress or pourover. With the super simple visuals on the Vario it's worked out well. Then, of course, I wanted to know if the grinder was capable of good espresso vs. the Macap and I'm happy to say it is.

Reviews like this:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/grinders/418092

http://www.home-barista.com/advice/baratza-vario-vs-63-5mm-commercial-burr-grinder-t14464.html

And many more led me to fall down the rabbit hole of Vario research. If you look around a bit you will see some very interesting 'grinder shootouts' that tap the Vario as a bargain at the price.

Hahaha, yeah the tamping on the lever is significantly different. I find myself at a 3 - 8lb tamp pressure, it's a lever thing. The larger focus for tamping is a correctly squared off surface, even on all sides and that's why you see me touching the puck with the tamper a couple of times to observe the squaring and then in for the light tamp. The tamp for me is more of a negotiation between weight of tamp and headspace in the basket.

I'm not saying my approach is a good approach but I'll outline it anyway... From shot to shot I'm constantly adjusting things based on what I see in the stream and what I taste in the cup. More often than not it's a dosing issue where I'll add .5gms more or maybe even 1gm, or I'll make a grinder tweak, or I'll keep dose and grinder as is but adjust the headspace in the basket. Maybe I'll leave those things alone and go with a passive preinfusion and then see what the first pull has to say for itself before I adjust on the second pull of the lever. If the first pull almost goes full path before I know to hit it with the second pull, in the next shot I might go active preinfusion to infuse quicker and then on to 1/2 pull on the first lever and quickly load up the pressure again with the second pull - kind of a pressure choke to slow down the front-end effort of the active pre. All that to say I am constantly involving myself in the realtime observations and 'feel' of the shot, trying to cooperate with the espresso and move it around 'in-shot'. Based on being so involved with the shots outcome I get quite a few home runs and I also get some average shots as well. I taste them all even when I know it's going to be average, I'll even taste the obvious 'whoops I totally shouldn't have over-pressured that one' shots. In the video I had already dialed in what I wanted for a milk shot and went with the 'top down video angle' so it would be a learning tool for others, normally I'd be steaming milk and popping my head down to look at the espresso stream and then up to the milk and then down to the stream like one of those old-school drinking birds.

Some mornings I even have the same glassy eyed look when I'm pulling shots. ;-)

[peechdogg]

FWIW, I tamp in a similar manner to Shaun... on a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia. I just use a very simple method because it's a high tech machine that takes care of a lot in a commercial production environment... my staff can easily produce excellent, repeatable results as long as the grind is right.

At home, a Baratza is my grinder of choice for reasons similar to what Shaun lists.

[staylor]

...on a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia.

Nice!

I spent a couple of days comparing a pile of shots and caps off a side by side setup - the Aurelia with shots from Sammy Piccolo and the Slayer with shots from the owners/developers of that machine. You are a lucky man.

[milowebailey]

That's just not true!  I love espresso and if you've ever seem my jabs at B|Milwaukiatto© for his lactose habit...

While I appreciate the cameo reference, you will *not* drag me into this 6-page thread to nowhere <grins>.  

B|Milkman

B|Lurking

Do you have a search engine poised to find a Milwaukiatto© reference in the threads (I know how much you like the whey it's referenced) or were you already tumbling into the conversation, only to have a little more self-restraint than some of us?

[BoldJava]

B|Lurking

Do you have a search engine poised to find a Milwaukiatto© reference in the threads (I know how much you like the whey it's referenced)...

Nah.   I know that I will be ribbed in friendly fashion on generally most any thread. No need to search for it. Goats are tough and can eat take anything thrown their way.

...or were you already tumbling into the conversation, only to have a little more self-restraint than some of us?

Opinions are fixed on this thread. No need to jump in there. I can learn more by just listening.

B|Java

[BoldJava]

The second reason was ease of setting... for my wife. No matter how I marked up the Macap, or how I explained it, I would shiver when I'd see good beans getting ground on the wrong settings for her Aeropress or pourover. With the super simple visuals on the Vario it's worked out well...

Thread drift.

You too?  When I go out of town, I write down grams of coffee on the filter box; lay out the filter, the Beehouse, the correct ceramic pot ("When you reach the top, that's it"); set the Macap at pourover.  Come home and find that the Czarina poured tea.   "It looked too daunting; tea is easier."

B|Java

[staylor]

Coming into the kitchen and watching Amaro Gayo running through an espresso grinder setting and seeing a pourover sitting next to the grinder... gives me a headache.

[Tex]

The second reason was ease of setting... for my wife. No matter how I marked up the Macap, or how I explained it, I would shiver when I'd see good beans getting ground on the wrong settings for her Aeropress or pourover. With the super simple visuals on the Vario it's worked out well...

Thread drift.

You too?  When I go out of town, I write down grams of coffee on the filter box; lay out the filter, the Beehouse, the correct ceramic pot ("When you reach the top, that's it"); set the Macap at pourover.  Come home and find that the Czarina poured tea.   "It looked too daunting; tea is easier."

B|Java

Or worse, an empty Starbuck's cup sitting next to the computer when you get home - "I didn't feel like waiting for the machine to heat up."!!