Everett's SC/TO Build

[peter]

What's the gap between the floor plate and the stirring arm?  If the arms are close to the bottom as in a stock SC, it might be easier to have a horizontal probe and make it just above the arms, with the probe's tip somewhere near the center of the distance from outside to center.

For me, coming up through the bottom presents problems with the arms.

I don't know just where the bead of the t/c is in relation to the tip, I just figured it read about a half inch from the tip.  That's a bit of a moot point, since it doesn't matter how accurate you're reading; you're more concerned w/ repeating it each time.  In my Ambex 1C starts in the mid-370's and in the SC/TO it starts around 400.  But I don't care either way as long as I know what I'm dealing with.

[Everett]

For anyone who wants to see how a 60rpm motor with the stock arm, in near stock placement in an SC with 1lb of green beans works, Video is here. Phone decided it wanted to record sideways, but you get the idea.


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17852316/IMG_2045.MOV


For anyone who read my Drum Roaster thread that prompted all of this, this is the drum I rolled at the inlaws place. It is 11" or so diameter, 28" long, and 1/8" wall.





Miroslav, I now understand what you did with that spatula, it makes a lot more sense now. Just need to figure out where I want to mount the bean probe now.


Peter, you bring up a good point. I was thinking about mounting in the bottom, as it would be most out of the way there, seeing as it will be permanent. There is about 1/4", maybe a bit less between the arm and the plate, but I was thinking of only sticking it out a small amount (1/8" or 3/16") and if need be, to bend a small groove in the arms at that point, to buy a bit more space. I plan on doing one in the side spacer ring to be permanently fixed for environment temperature, but am unsure if it would be too much hassle to get one fixed in the perfect position right above the arms. My other thought about mounting through the bottom, is ability to do a smaller batch size and still have it in the beans. I will take a closer look, taking in to account the silicone mount, what would need to be done to put them in both locations. Just needs to not move, so its the same each time, and not get in the way.


I have been playing with half pound batches right now, but in the future, will be going over 1lb in them, so bottom makes most sense to me, even if its not entirely accurate, Peter's right, as long as its consistent.

[Everett]

Another Question, and I may not be asking this in the right place, is about TC4Shield Compatibility. My brother in law has done a lot more with Arduinos than I have, but he has had luck with other branded Arduino Compatible hardware. Is TC4Shield usable with Duemilanove boards or just Uno's?


I'm eyeballing something like this: (In Canada already, cheap shipping, half the price of a Legit Uno)


http://dipmicro.com/store/DE4058

[smico]

I use it with Uno and Mega (two pins rerouted).
I think that answer is yes, but you might want to look at future use. I know some projects like PID require more memory.
But the best is to ask JimG. He builds them and he is a member here.

Also you can ask him if he is aware of anybody controlling your turbo oven heat and fan.
But we are all curious about that, so do report on findings or lure him here.

[jimec3]

I've mentioned this before.  I fought arduinos for two years.  Communication problems, boards with ground loops, pooched roasts of COE that would make you spit nails.  I cannot say enough that buying two Delta PIDs changed it all.  No software glitches, no hardware problems, and god forbid the pc does screw up you can control them manually.  seriously consider it.  it's one thing to screw up 250g of greens its another when you have a several lbs

2 pids, one serial to usb adapter.  I run artisan, it's free and comprehesive enough

[Everett]

Good to hear from someone from the PID camp. To be honest, I haven't done much looking into PID to be honest, so it's kinda a mystery to me. Depending on the cost I suppose, 1lb is about the top end per roast I'm looking to control, until later when I look at building a drum roaster.


What is the cost, and complication to set up one of those Delta guys?

[jimec3]

I think I paid 80/per pid.  I got two but really only need one and a supported TC.  I just figured if one shit the bed the second would be the backup.
Setup is cake.  I got a USB to seriel converter.  Run two wires from the serial adapter to the pid (uses modbus).  parrell those wires to the second pid.  Then you just have to set the modbus address (the pid has directions)

I use SSR's to adjust the power so you just wire the SSR into the PID.  Connect the TC's and run it.

Open Artisan, under device select the apropriate "serial port" tell it you got two deltas and what thier respective adresses are (modbus address set above) and you are up and running.  You can spend more money on fiju pids and I was going to but really I find myself making very many heat adjustments during the roast...maybe three...to warrent the 100's for the next level up

For me the advantage was upgradeability and durability.  Start on a HT, same setup would control a SC/TO, same setup could control a gas machine (needs right PID and Valve), same setup does my electric Artigiano.  I have three fried arduino's and three tc4 shields that don't work.  I am sure they could all be fixed but I was upside down in time.  Needed less time playing with the electronics and more time roasting.  The pids have not missed a single beat in over a year.  Not one glitch, no computer error, no downtime, no upgrades NADA. 

http://www.wolfautomation.com/products/25356/temperature-controller-universal-inputsbrdelta-dtb-series

Let me know if you head this route.  There may be some SSRs and maybe a serial to usb adapter I currently have no need for in my Roastatorium.  I'd ship them out under Peter's Karma initiative.

[sea330]

I went kinda the same way. Purchased a Watlow PID controller with RS 422 interface converted to RS232 with a adapter and using the Watlow watview software, really cool software. The software is really expensive but you can down load it free and if you terminate the session before 30 min is up, you can use it for a unlimited time with out purchasing the dongal which is very expensive. What is really nice about it is I can upload and download profiles as needed, save almost unlimited profiles. You can control your controller from your PC, adjust set point, ramp rate and soak time. I picked up on this from calling Walow Engineer explaining to him just being a hobby coffee roaster the $1500.00 cost was prohibitive and he gave me this little tip.

[smico]

This sounds very interesting, thank you for sharing.
Few months ago I bought PXR3 Fuji with ramp and soak but without RS485.
Still playing with it.
Which exact Watlow model to you have?
Thanks
Miroslav

[ScareYourPassenger]

Doh, I purchased a tc4 already. I guess I will se it till it fals and start to look at pids.

Loaded the roastlogger program and I will use it on my Sonofresco. Next step is to buy some ssrs and start controlling a sc/to with it.

[sea330]

My thought are to install two TCs, one were the thermister was on the SC, and one perm mount threw the 1" 1/2 spacer around the the pan and hook them up in parallel also a 40 amp SSR running both elements. I run a dedicated 50 amp 220 volt circuit and made a pig tail to split so I get two 120 volt circuits at my roaster location that made all the difference, no more voltage drops solid 122 volts. Next thing is speed control for the fan I think finding the sweet spot for fan RPMs and just leave it fixed.  A couple a times a month I fire up the big guy to get coffee to Family and friends up to around 80Lbs a month, I prefer playing with this stuff. Oh one more thing I found these TCs that has  like a flat washer bonded to the end of the TC that I just slip under were the thermister was and just keep testing until you find the right temp on the top of the pan. I like set point to be 420 deg and not to exceed 439 deg. The type of controller I have is  a Watlow SD6 series with comm option, found two of them at a very good price on ebay, to my surprise they both work perfect. Sweet little units for under $80.00 for both

[smico]

SYP, you have bought great device.  I have TC4 for exactly 1 year, and have never had a glitch.  You will not regret buying it, even if you end up buying PID at the end.  Even without roaster controls, saving logs, and using old logs as templates, will help you repeat roasts that you like, and improve roasts that you don't like.

Sea330, thank you for the lead.  I will be on lookout for similar PID, with hope that the loophole is not closed in the mean time.

Everett, have you decided which route to take, PID or TC4?

Regards,

Miroslav

[Everett]

I am still trying to decide. In the mean time, I am seeing what I can pull from it, to get used to it, with 1/2lb roasts. My brother in law has a couple PID Units sitting around, so I will take a look at those the next time I am out there, to see if they would be suitable for this application.


I need to get thermocouples in there soon, but I would like to have a good feel for what the roaster does and then add the temp probes, so I don't become super reliant on them.


Lots on the go for the last week, not much time to think about it, but I will keep using it and hopefully decide ($$) in the near future. Interesting posts it seems, and I will read them in more detail as time permits.


Thanks Guys!


 

[Everett]

So I've decided to go the TC4Shield route. Being in IT, the Arduino seems much less confusing to me than figuring out all about PID and how to get it setup properly. I am thinking I will go the whole yard, and hook up a couple SSR's as well, one for the Turbo Oven heat, and the other for


I'll be waiting for a small while (couple weeks or so) before ordering Shields, and my brother in law has a couple Arduinos and all the rest of the components for me. Still need to figure thermocouples and all that, but that'll come. Just thought I'd update.

[fore]

Everett, could you explain the difference b/w these two options?
HT Roaster Interface devices are available in two forms:

HTShield: Arduino-compatible shield, intended for stacking atop a TC4 shield
HTC: may be piggybacked on a TC4C board, or may be used as a remote, cable-connected interface
 
You can get HTC-TC4C or HTShield-TC4.  I just don't understand the differences.

thanks
chris