Vacpots, Q's and A's

[cfsheridan]

First two rounds with the table top Yama this morning.  Extraction technique modified from what I use with the stovetop 8 cup version.

I used the Cory rod with great success--grind was a hair finer than drip.

37.5 g for 22 oz.  (converted from the 60g per 32 oz. I use with the 8-cup).

First pot was the Costa Rica Royal Select Decaf (CINC House needed coffee).  Not bad--though there was nothing exciting to pull out of this cup--it being decaf and all.

2nd Pot: Uganda Bugisu A, the last remnants of my sample.  This one accentuated the Java-like body that the cuppers mentioned.  Clean, honey with that malty finish.

Now, one last thought on technique.  Some of the water is absorbed by the coffee during brewing, like any other process.  I've found that that nose on the coffee improves if I add a bit of hot water to nearly match the 8-cup line (on that pot).  Most extractions finish around 7.5 on that pot, by my estimation.  Your taste may vary, but I've run cups side to side with and without that little extra hot water, and I find the one with a hint of water is better balanced.

I'll be checking this out with the 5-cup tabletop, to see if I have similar results.   As I have sick kid duty today, the first of the Ethiopian roasts is about to hit the pot.

[bobvilax2000]

Is there any consequences for doing a single cup (8oz) in the five cup Yama? The vacuum happens as normal with plenty of water woooshing up leaving a bit in the belly of the beast. I've been getting disappointing cups, but I feel it's more to do with time/grind and understanding how long it takes for the vacuum to break. Great tips so far, however.

I may just be dense. I have trouble getting a great brew from anything but my espresso machine and inverted AP with custom filter.

Me thinks me needs practice.

- -Barrett

[headchange4u]

I have read that making anything less than 1/2 of a pot in any vac pot will result in a weak brew because of the small amount of water that stays in the bottom. Most of the cups I use on a regular basis are 16oz, so I use my Yama 5 cup for single cup brews and the larger Santos if my wife is drinking with me. I stick with an AP Americano for the 8 oz. cups.

[John F]

Did you try making the full 5 to see if it's better?

My curiosity is on..


John F

[headchange4u]

I was looking through Ebay and I came across this beautiful vintage Hario vac pot. Nice.
http://tiny.cc/Fbhg7

[bobvilax2000]

But does the small amount of water matter if there is enough grounds? The water is still a little shy of 200F. The main reason that I tried a smaller amount first was because the box was touting that you can do any amount. Hah! I'll try a 16oz batch (line 3) in the AM. I fly solo in my apartment, so line five is pushing it in one sitting.

I just timed some plain water vacuums... on my stove a five cup pot takes 40 seconds to break the vacuum after the heat is cut while the 8oz cup takes about 35 seconds.

I just can't get it out of my head... If there is enough water to accomplish the vacuum then why won't it come out right?

- -Barrett

[cfsheridan]

But does the small amount of water matter if there is enough grounds? The water is still a little shy of 200F. The main reason that I tried a smaller amount first was because the box was touting that you can do any amount. Hah! I'll try a 16oz batch (line 3) in the AM. I fly solo in my apartment, so line five is pushing it in one sitting.

I just timed some plain water vacuums... on my stove a five cup pot takes 40 seconds to break the vacuum after the heat is cut while the 8oz cup takes about 35 seconds.

I just can't get it out of my head... If there is enough water to accomplish the vacuum then why won't it come out right?

- -Barrett

You may want to try an alternate approach to your goal.  First step--master the full pot preparation, so that you don't even have to think before you make that pot.  Once the full pot preparation is in your blood, then you will have a better insight into what you'll have to do to make the smaller amount work.

Of course, my solution is to make the full pot and dump the contents into a good thermos or carafe.  Wash, dry, and your locked and loaded for the next pot, or you can finish off the remainder of the carafe/thermos.

[headchange4u]

But does the small amount of water matter if there is enough grounds? The water is still a little shy of 200F. The main reason that I tried a smaller amount first was because the box was touting that you can do any amount. Hah! I'll try a 16oz batch (line 3) in the AM. I fly solo in my apartment, so line five is pushing it in one sitting.

I just timed some plain water vacuums... on my stove a five cup pot takes 40 seconds to break the vacuum after the heat is cut while the 8oz cup takes about 35 seconds.

I just can't get it out of my head... If there is enough water to accomplish the vacuum then why won't it come out right?

- -Barrett

I may be totally off base in my thinking, but here is my take on making less than a full pot....

No matter how much coffee you are brewing you will always have the same amount of water remaining in the bottom of the pot-if I had to guess I would say that 1.5 or 2 oz stays in the bottom of the pot. If you are making an 8 oz cup that means that 6-6.5 oz of water is migrating into the top bowl while the rest remains in the bottom. The coffee is going to soak up some of the water, so if you put in 8 oz of water and 6.5 oz oz goes into the grounds at the top, 1.5 oz of water remains in to bottom, and for arguments sake we will say that the grounds will absorb .5 oz of water. That means when the coffee gets pulled back into the bottom pot you end up with an about 6:1 ratio of coffee to water.

If you made a full pot of coffee, 22 oz, you would still have the same amount of water remain in the bottom of the pot, again probably about 1.5 oz. You could probably assume that you are going to have about 18-19 oz of water making it's way back to the bottom when the brewing is done, still assuming that the grounds are going to absorb some of the liquid. That would give you an approximately 18:1 coffee to water ratio, not nearly as diluted as the 8 oz brew.

You could add extra grounds to compensate for the diluted brew if you were only making an 8 oz cup, but it's probably going to be a matter of experimentation to find out exactly how much extra coffee to add so that the resulting coffee is the same strength as it would be making a full pot.

I use my vac pot once a day at least, and most of the time twice a day. IMHO, a vac pop is much like an AP in that there are many variables to consider: grind, amount of coffee used, filtering method, steep time, etc. All of these can influence the cup. I don't think water temp is really that much of a factor because of the way the vac pot operates. When water in the bottom reaches a certain temperature the vacuum is created and the water goes into the top. From my measurements, once all the water has gone into the top it's temp is about 202*F. By the time I grind my coffee and add it to the water the temp is in the neighborhood of 198*F or so. I have found that these temp readings are pretty consistent.

I always make a full pot when I brew and any extra coffee goes into a thermos to keep it hot. I'm to the point now that I know exactly how much coffee to add (I use a plastic measuring cup with a mark for my 5 cup and my 8 cup) and the whole process has become almost like second nature to me, but it's taken me making a few dozen pots to get to where I am now. Some of my first attempts were nothing short of horrible . Keep practicing and you will get it down pat.

Clear as mud?

[bobvilax2000]

Fantastic explanation, Headchange! That should be useful to most of the Vacnoobs.

Thanks, cfsheridan, I did a 16oz batch this morning, and while it may have been a tad sour (under extracted... I won't eliminate too few grounds, either.), I got much better Fruit Loop berry blast from the Korate natural that you distroed. You and Headchange must be right about the dilution variable.

My grind was fairly fine, maybe white sugar sized. I normally do a good rounded tablespoon per 3oz, but I think I came short this morning.
I brought the water to a simmer in the pot and attached the top part with the coffee already inside.
The water immediately gurgled up and I dropped the heat, stirred, and let it go for 1:20 until I cut the heat.
The coffee was sucked dry by 2:30, so 70 seconds from the time that I offed the heat to when the grounds were bled dry.

I'll begin increasing the time 30 seconds at a time until I reach a good extraction. I've seen everywhere from 40 seconds to 4 minutes, and yet grind size is rarely spoken of...

Thanks!
- -Barrett

[garybt3]

My tabletop Yama has arrived! No damage at all!

Looks like they changed the cloth filter design to a "2 way" filter. The cloth filters with a draw string are meant for the older style filter assembly. The "2 way" filter is smaller, does not have a draw string and has an additional hole in the center...

However, the assembled filters fit both just fine. And a quick check with a genuine CORY rod looks good.

I'll buy some butane after work tomorrow and fire it up this weekend.

Thanks for distributing this, Dave...it looks pretty nifty and the butane burner has got to be selling for around $40 all by itself...this was a heck of a bargain.

[BoldJava]

My tabletop Yama has arrived! No damage at all!
...

This is good news.  Jim Spain lost a pot and globe to a puncture (have replacements on the way to him from Oregon).  The lion's share of deliveries are today and tomorrow and I am looking at DHL during this process as a repeat, as well as a 2nd and continuing group buy. 

They are delightful ways to prepare coffee.  I have used it every day this week...love the cup and tactile nature of the process.

B|Java

[jspain]

Ladies, Gentleman and the majority of the rest of you,
Dave has done a great job! This is the first time in many years that I ever had a broken shipment!!!! Please know that this is the exception to the rule and if all goes well I'll be brewing by Monday with replacement components to the Vac Pot. I've been reading all the posts to the thread and I'm actually glad mine will be a bit late getting started since I can read all about your experiences and learn! Dave is a primary example of what this club is all about! GREAT PEOPLE who care about each other and in Dave's case a great, reliable, and example of what's good in the world today! THANKS DAVE for the distro!!!!  Jim

[BoldJava]

Thanks Jim.  You're kind.  A puncture of some sort got Jim's -- right thru the inner and outer packaging. 

The group came thru with the bacon on this distribution.  I had $1500 worth of Yamas/shipping and the group (every individual) paid within less than 48 hours.  Unbeatable -- and makes life easier at this end.  We will do a repeat in time for Christmas shopping.

Oh, sipping a Yama Sumatran and loving it.

B|Java

[bobvilax2000]

Ah, that kind of sucks, Jim. At least, maybe, you can learn from slow little me. 

Well, I finally got my Yama groove on! 

Water to the 3-mark
Let it vacuum to the top and stabilize
Added sugar sized grinds and stirred
Let it go for a minute, cut the heat, after another minute the last of the air was bubbling southwards.
(Basically did everything that was already advised here...)
Drinking the natural El Salvador, and maaaaaaaaaan. 
I'm not sure what to do without the sludge at the bottom and no missing body.

Thanks, B|Java! Like the struggle, love the success.

- -Barrett

[jspain]

Well I got my butane, copied the experiences of other, copied the article from "Coffee Geek" and now am awaiting the replacement glass pieces. I'm glad the broken Yama came to me instead of someone else. God has instilled patience in my life and I have also become a better listener.
I hope to be brewing next week, get the art of the vac pot down, and that little booger is going in the car on vacation with me to Virginia Beach via the "Sky Line Drive." Great coffee over looking the ocean with friends and a good book. Life is good!
Jim