Author Topic: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?  (Read 15526 times)

Offline Warrior372

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2009, 10:37:58 PM »
So much for cutting down that vase. . . . I splintered that in about 5 minutes. I will get a 5" diameter hurricane tomorrow. It will do for the time being anyway.

Offline peter

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2009, 09:33:10 AM »
Have you considered a notched section that could hold the roasting chamber at varying distances from the heater?  That may be a simple way to adjust bean temps.
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Offline John F

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2009, 02:24:52 PM »
How are you containing yourself?

If I had the heater in hand I think I'd have to run to Lowes and get something to do a test run with...like ANYTHING.  ;D I'd have to roast immediately..be trying to loft greens...I would be going a zillion MPH. :-X

You have some pretty good patience working for you.
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Offline Warrior372

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2009, 02:46:24 PM »
I am kind of patient, a little more on the obsessive side truthfully. I am very meticulous, and hate going back to do things a second time. If I did not have a Physiology exam on Monday it would have already been done. After studying, I am going to run to Lowe's this evening to get the rest of what I need.  Here is a picture to prove my point. Does this look familiar  ;D ?

Tex

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2009, 02:49:36 PM »
I am kind of patient, a little more on the obsessive side truthfully. I am very meticulous, and hate going back to do things a second time. If I did not have a Physiology exam on Monday it would have already been done. After studying, I am going to run to Lowe's this evening to get the rest of what I need.  Here is a picture to prove my point. Does this look familiar  ;D ?

Looks like it belongs in a GE engine of a Boing Triple 7.  ;)

Nice fabrication!

Offline Warrior372

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2009, 04:17:58 PM »
Okay, so this is a little more involved then I originally thought. I am having issues with the function of the stator blade and am playing with how to mount the stator blade. First my mount was not sturdy enough, so I used thicker steel and it got so hot it burned through the mesh in the roasting chamber. I tried just using the air out of the torpedo without the stator blade and the beans get loft, but only about 20% of the move. . . .

So anyway, this is going to take a little more work. I will keep you posted.

-Mike

Offline J.Jirehs Roaster

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2009, 04:38:20 PM »
Okay, so this is a little more involved then I originally thought. I am having issues with the function of the stator blade and am playing with how to mount the stator blade. First my mount was not sturdy enough, so I used thicker steel and it got so hot it burned through the mesh in the roasting chamber. I tried just using the air out of the torpedo without the stator blade and the beans get loft, but only about 20% of the move. . . .

So anyway, this is going to take a little more work. I will keep you posted.

-Mike

early in the sono roast the beans are not moving enough (it would appear) later in the roast a dry process and especially decaf.. are going nuts....  maybe your stator needs bigger vents if you are roasting more beans... the sonos show heat discoloration under the roast chamber but I dont know how glowy hot they get...

Offline Warrior372

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2009, 06:30:55 PM »
Thank you for the info on the Sono roast process! That is encouraging.

Tex, can you take off that stator blade so I can see what is under it? There are not any schematics of one wandering around are there?

Thanks,
Mike
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 06:35:21 PM by Warrior372 »

garybt3

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2009, 11:29:09 AM »
Here's a copy of the 2 # CR2 Coffee Roaster manual:

http://www.sonofresco.com/index.php/faq/manuals.html

The PDF file was too large to to post here. I was considering buying the CR2, until I figured that it cost too much for me, at the moment  ;)

Offline 7over

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2009, 04:16:58 PM »
I just got clued in by Modelmaker that this thread was in play... sorry that I did not see it earlier!

I don't know if what I'm doing will apply directly or not... I did design and build my own FAB roaster. It's electric and can roast 2.5 to 14 lbs of beans in one batch.... with a slight modification we'll increase that to 20 lbs per batch.

For my roaster I have a 25kw 240V 3ph electric heater. ... it can raise the air temp from inlet to outlet by 880 degrees at 100scfm. I don't need to raise it that much, but I didn't want to run the heater at full bore all the time either.

That equates to roughly 85,000 BTU's in capability.

At 100 scfm the roaster will easily fluidize 3 lbs of beans and the heater will easily keep up with the heat requirements. But that heater is incredible overkill for 3 lbs of beans.

For your operation, if you only need 50 scfm to loft your 1 lb of beans (you'll have to measure that), I think you can get away with 29,000 BTU's to achieve a 500 degree temp output at the point where the air exits the heating element / chamber.
If you need more air velocity to loft your beans, you'll need more BTU's of course.
The trick is the blower... a typical 'fan' will probably not be able to generate enough pressure to loft the beans. A good 'squirrel cage' (Modelmaker, what say you here?) style fan can probably do it but a regenerative blower is more of a sure bet!
 
A blower that has a variable speed is also a good idea.... it takes a 20% velocity boost to get the beans lofted at the beginning of the roast than it does to keep them lofted once they're moving. Beans weigh more at the beginning of the roast than at the end... so if you can also degrade the speed of the blower by 20% over the span of the batch, you can get enough speed to loft the early part of the roast but slow it down so you're not shattering your beans on the top of the roaster... or shooting them into the ceiling at the end of the roast.

There is a whole lot more to this fluid air bed roasting than meets the eye.
My drum roaster took far less time and money ($50 and 3 days) to build than the FAB I'm in production with! But commercial production and home roasting are two different things!

There is much more that I could write on this topic but it's dinner time... gotta eat!
If there are specific questions or direction questions... I'll be happy to chime in. I'm not an engineer and I don't even play one on TV... so all I can tell you is what worked for me... and even then my information is somewhat circumspect.

Pete
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Tex

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2009, 06:54:10 PM »
I just got clued in by Modelmaker that this thread was in play... sorry that I did not see it earlier!

I don't know if what I'm doing will apply directly or not
...


Man Pete, I'd love to hear more about your roaster! A friend who's in the metal bending business has offered to do the chassis if I'd do the rest. He wants to go into business with me doing artisan roasting here in the Houston area (top quality beans, even some COE).

The fabrication is fairly straight forward - now if I can get Larry to jump in and do a widget for the controls??

Offline Warrior372

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2009, 12:24:28 AM »
Tex, check out these hot air blowers / air blowing systems. You can actually directly hook up several of their air blowers straight into their hot air blowers, so all of your air would be heated to temp. Their blowers go up to 540CFM and their hot air blowers go up to 1650 degrees celsius. Most of their equipment is meant for continuous use, which is obviously a prerequisite for commercial most roasters. Some of the heat blowers are PID'd as well. I have nothing to do with their company, I just found them as I was searching for heating ideas for my current project. http://www.malcom.com/products/hot_air_blowers.php

Is that directional air vane in the Sono stationary or does it spin? I have been trying to make a spinning blade, but I think it would redirect air pretty well even if it was stationary.

Offline 7over

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2009, 09:54:55 AM »
Quote
http://www.malcom.com/products/hot_air_blowers.php

One of those might be perfect for the sample FAB roaster I need to build. Sounds like it will plug right into electronics I already use which means I should be able to get really close to matching profiles from the sample roaster to my production roaster!

Thanks for that link!

Pete
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milowebailey

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2009, 10:02:02 AM »


Is that directional air vane in the Sono stationary or does it spin?

The Sono is stationary

milowebailey

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Re: What is the optimal air flow rate in fluid bed roasters?
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2009, 10:04:04 AM »

The fabrication is fairly straight forward - now if I can get Larry to jump in and do a widget for the controls??
It's fall.... I'm back on the Milowidget project... hope to find the time to hone it over the next month or two.