Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: SJM on December 29, 2013, 12:27:37 PM
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Well, it's here and it's huge and scary. It's bigger than any of the dogs and outweighs them by a lot....
So, first thing I noticed is that beans collect in that little divot in the chute. What do you do to keep that from happening? I'm gonna be single dosing, so I need all the beans that go IN to come OUT.
What I need is your experience with single dosing this beast since the hopper can't live here. We don't do no stinking hoppers in this house :-))))
I'm guessing I will first need to remove that guard over the chute and ....
Tell me
Tell me
Tell me
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The guard will have a small lever switch that breaks contact when the doser is filled. All you really need to do is take all that mess apart, remove the wires from the switch, and wire nut them together.
If you really want to, you can disassemble the machine, trace the wires to where they terminate, and run a jumper between the two contacts.
I use a chopstick to sweep the chute clear -you'll jam a chopstick in there exactly once when the burrs are still spinning. After an hour disassembling the burr carrier to free the chopstick, you'll never do that again.
Then I get super tricky by wiring a 30 second variable time delay relay in the circuit and I have timed dosing to easily within half a gram. That's when you'll want your hopper back. That relay will give you usability analogous to a K30 for about $20. I weighed beans several times a day for a couple of years. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but since I started using the timer my shot quality has only improved. Although that might not be saying much as it had nowhere to go but up. :)
We didn't finish it, but we worked on a kit for the Mazzers last spring and I have a RR45 on the bench that I'm wiring right now. If you need help. PM me. I may even have parts for you.
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My K10 didn't have the switch that Steve speaks of, it was simply to keep women in CA from sticking their fingers in there and suing Compak.
Here's a photo of the chute mod I did. I cut the slot in the plexiglass doser hopper a little deeper and fashioned a little ramp out of some thin sheet metal.
(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/8886_compak_k11_004.jpg)
There's an old thread on HB that might help; http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/compak-k10-chute-mods-t14728.html (http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/compak-k10-chute-mods-t14728.html)
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Hi Susan
You will lear to love the K10. It is a huge improvement over my old K3 and it is very efficient at single dosing with some small modifications. I too got a great deal on a like new used and broken in model but I did need to mod the chute for single dosing. Check out this thread on HB.
http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/compak-k10-chute-mods-t14728.html (http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/compak-k10-chute-mods-t14728.html)
Also, go to home depot and purchase acid brushes. A pack of three costs about $1.25. They are perfect for sweeping the coffee out of the chute.
Enjoy!
Edit - Peter was quicker than I was with the JohnB mod discussion. You just need a file, proper screw removal tool and some patience and much less coffee will be retained in the chute.
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I'm already in love with it !!!!
You can see that I put the MD-50 up for sale already.
There's no turning back.
One question: Even with the dose size as large as it will go (10 gm), the grinds fall at the back of the grounds catcher and it takes multiple pulls of the handle to empty the only one or two that are full.
Am I missing something or is that the way it will always be?
Has anyone here removed that altogether and attached the nozzle nose instead?
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There is a doser mod over on HB too but that was already done to mine. It involves taping the sweeper arms to get more efficient pushing of the coffee to the opening. I think you need to remove that bottom piece that measures (inaccurately) the dose and just sweep all the grounds down by 5-10 quick pulls of the handle. That's how mine works.
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One question: Even with the dose size as large as it will go (10 gm), the grinds fall at the back of the grounds catcher and it takes multiple pulls of the handle to empty the only one or two that are full.
Am I missing something or is that the way it will always be?
The doser needs to have enough in it to at least cover the spokes, or it'll be as you say. But the clack-clack of the doser handle is such a lovely sound, who cares if you have to pull it several times? Recently, I removed the doser plate altogether because it was buzzing.
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My last Compak didn't need tape. It swept pretty clean. I did take the doser plate out though. I have a doserless "bag tube" for my Super Jolly, but I went back to the doser because it was cleaner and broke up the clumps. I seldom WDT anymore either. I just hit the button and cycle the doser until the grinder stops. Usually about 9 seconds for 18 grams. I adjust to shot time and taste more than weight. If I'm only doing one shot, I clean the throat (chopstick), brush everything down, and cycle the doser a couple of more times to get everything out. Then I slap, tamp, and pull. -although that sounds like it should be illegal somewhere.
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This is the chute I thought would make the K-10 perfect
http://www.compakgrinders.com/docs/osp/osp_K8_K10_Fresh.pdf (http://www.compakgrinders.com/docs/osp/osp_K8_K10_Fresh.pdf)
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This is the chute I thought would make the K-10 perfect
[url]http://www.compakgrinders.com/docs/osp/osp_K8_K10_Fresh.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.compakgrinders.com/docs/osp/osp_K8_K10_Fresh.pdf[/url])
I would not recommend doing that. My K3 was doserless and surprisingly it is less efficient than the doser. As mentioned above the doser also removes clumps and I have not used WDT once with the K10 while it was essential for the K3.
My routine.-
Run 1-2 gm. coffee through the grinder to remove old coffee. Sweep the chute clean with the acid brush. Pulse 3-4 times to remove grounds. Remove the coffee from the doser and you are set for the day.
Weigh out desired dose and put into the grinder. I use a small Penzyes spice bottle over the top as it fits perfectly. 17-18 gms. take about 7 seconds to grind. Use acid brush to push into doser. Pulse 3-4 times to get all the grinds into the doser and use acid brush to get all the grinds into the doser. Sweep the doser to get grinds into basket. Distribute with finger, tamp and pull your shot.
This may sound complicated but it is in the end faster than having to WDT. It becomes second nature in no time and it works well with very little loss of coffee (maybe 0.2- 0.3 gm tops).
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Oh good. I'm tired of bleeding $$$$.
My SAMA tamper fits perfectly in the top of the grind chute to keep the beans from popcorning.
And I will probably keep using the toothbrush I have always used to clean out the MD-50 maw....and replace it with an acid brush when it gives up or gets lost.
As to running the 1-2 grams of beans per the weighed grind? What a concept !!! Thanks. I'll try that in the morning.
Susan
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I think I have grinder envy.....
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I think I have grinder envy.....
And unlike many toys, Susan won't be selling this one in two months.
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Nope. Add a bit of plumbing and I can move into it ....
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I think I have grinder envy.....
And unlike many toys, Susan won't be selling this one in two months.
Dibs when she does!
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No no no....
Baby steps....
You need the MD-50 first :-)))))
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My only complaint with this machine is probably due to my own misunderstanding.
I thought somehow that it was going to be a bit less messy than the MD-50.....not so. There are still grounds everywhere....
Luckily I don't have a wife who minds...
Oh, right....no wife at all.....
And the dogs haven't complained either....
:-))))
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What makes it messier? Aren't you holding the PF under the doser when you flick the handle?
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Still grounds seem to be everywhere.....just like they were with the MD-50.
I don't mind.....but I did mis-understand that there would be more improvement...
Not complainin' just commenting...
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I'm wondering how those grounds are getting everywhere.
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That clackity clack handle that you like so much makes it impossible to hold the portafilter up close to the bottom of the circular bin that holds the grounds. If you give a ground a space it will find it....
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I get around this by dosing into a small glass bowl. The secondary benefit is that I hand dose into the portafilter with a measuring spoon which allows me to breakup any clumps and evenly distribute the grounds in the portafilter.
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But how do you get that glass bowl up close enough that the dosing handle doesn't dislodge it from where it is right under the exit??? I've always dosed into a container and then poured into the basket, so dosing into the basket/portafilter is nothing I need to do. I still can't get away from there being a lot of grounds 'all over the place'.
Still not complainin'....
Just sayin'....
And not understanding how neat and clean is an option....
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Still not complainin'....
Just sayin'....
And not understanding how neat and clean is an option....
Just pretend you're a messy punk barista...
This is after maybe a couple dozen shots-
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But how do you get that glass bowl up close enough that the dosing handle doesn't dislodge it from where it is right under the exit??? I've always dosed into a container and then poured into the basket, so dosing into the basket/portafilter is nothing I need to do. I still can't get away from there being a lot of grounds 'all over the place'.
Still not complainin'....
Just sayin'....
And not understanding how neat and clean is an option....
It's not perfectly neat and tidy by any means. Another details is that I have removed the portafilter fork thingy on my grinder to facilitate getting the bowl closer -- I don't have a K10, BTW.
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Grinderz, what do you have?
And the fork isn't in the way. The "problem" is the lever you use to pull the doser vanes around. It's exactly the same problem I had on the MD-50. For some reason I had gotten the impression that this machine was going to be cleaner to run. I can't believe it: wrong again :-)))))))))
Luckily it really really really does not matter.
I've lived with the MD-50 for 6 years and it never was neat...
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I have a little Oreck shop-vac stationed below the espresso machine- grinder. At the end of its daily use it takes less than i minute to vacuum the tray, grind chamber, doser and run it for a few seconds while holding the end of the tube near the exit chute.
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A little vac sounds great...
I have a Rossi RR45. It's sort of like the Dodge Dart of grinders. Its noisy, has pedestrian styling, and will likely never wear out.
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okay then. The search is on for a little vac....
I do get tired of hauling the full sized one out of the back closet ....a little one would be perfect.
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I have one of these I am happy with.
Shop Vac Micro
http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-2021000-Micro-Wet-Dry/dp/B004UQVQ0I (http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-2021000-Micro-Wet-Dry/dp/B004UQVQ0I)
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...
This is after maybe a couple dozen shots-
You copied our granite...
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...
This is after maybe a couple dozen shots-
You copied our granite...
Proof of the commonly held truism that goats are trendsetters.
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I find a "dustbuster" style vacuum is just about perfect for this kind of thing. Lot's more convenient than a hose and canister type unit.
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Yes but with the hose you can also get it into your doser and vac out all the stuff left there and anything in the chute.
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I hate to get into a my vacuum cleaner is better than yours fight, :o but I just use the little nozzle attachment for that...
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and I'm stuck in a local cafe drinking swill just to use their wifi until tomorrow.
I hate att.
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Just in case anyone wants one of these, you might be interested that OE has the mini dosing funnel again:
http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-Short-Stack-Compak-Mini-Hopper_p_5598.html (http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-Short-Stack-Compak-Mini-Hopper_p_5598.html)
My SAMA tamper fits in the grind chamber purrrrrfectly and keeps my single dosing from popcorning anywhere at all, so I'm gonna pass, but...she's quite purdy....
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and I'm stuck in a local cafe drinking swill just to use their wifi until tomorrow.
I hate att.
Does Flying Goat not offer wi-fi at their cafe in downtown?
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They DO.
I'm just that much closer to Rohnert Park (and the new casino :-((((((( ) that I was going into the new Himalayan Beanz shop (where Starbucks used to be....east side of Commerce).
And now I'm back online with AT&T....until the end of this week when I get my new Sonic service and bid an unfond adieu to AT&T....:-))))
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Went to college at Sonoma State about 5ish years now, and still make my way up their occasionally.
Anyway, interesting that Starbucks pulled out of that spot there by the Safeway. I guess their in store location was enough, and jeez Rohnert Park... idk.
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Starbucks put in a drive-through a bit farther north on Commerce....just above RPXway.
And you don't even want to know about the Casino at the Golf Course Drive exit.....
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Everything is set nice and loose so that lots of people will win and.....come back....
Good strategy....
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I've found a grind setting I quite like but I want to do some experimenting.
I'm trying to think of the best way on this gorgeous machine to mark a current setting so that I can easily dial a bit coarser and/or a bit tighter without losing track of where I was....
Suggestions?
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I've found a grind setting I quite like but I want to do some experimenting.
I'm trying to think of the best way on this gorgeous machine to mark a current setting so that I can easily dial a bit coarser and/or a bit tighter without losing track of where I was....
Suggestions?
A hack saw would work
or you could just put a small piece of tape and put a mark on the tape.
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Ah, that trusty blue tape that someone here taught me to use to mark my coffee jars.....good idea.
Don't tell Todd you said that about the hacksaw; he'll worry about me all day....:-))))
Susan
who loves it that she has friends who worry about her....
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assuming you switch up coffee after each jar and have lots of different single origins,
also a good place to record the dose and grind setting on the same jar so that next time
you use that same bean, you have a pretty good starting point.
I'm just surprised that you still have the K10 and haven't upgraded to the EK43 yet.
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assuming you switch up coffee after each jar and have lots of different single origins,
also a good place to record the dose and grind setting on the same jar so that next time
you use that same bean, you have a pretty good starting point.
I'm just surprised that you still have the K10 and haven't upgraded to the EK43 yet.
Come on, Sam, I had the MD-50 for 6 years ;)
And, no, I don't switch beans very often.
Mostly I pull Redbird.
Occasionally Belle Espresso.
I've been spending my time this week trying to relate to what I read in Jim Schulman's article on extraction, so I've been weighing shots before and after my pulls, drying pucks to establish % of extraction, and....like that. It's very much worth the effort to understand his thesis on extraction....
http://www.coffeecuppers.com/Espresso.htm (http://www.coffeecuppers.com/Espresso.htm)
Susan
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I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso. As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.
Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now. Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.
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I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso. As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.
Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now. Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.
Wrong, but....
if you don't care you just don't, and....Goofy is one of the nicer things I've been called....
Susan
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Ah, that trusty blue tape that someone here taught me to use to mark my coffee jars.....good idea.
Don't tell Todd you said that about the hacksaw; he'll worry about me all day....:-))))
Susan
who loves it that she has friends who worry about her....
I'll bet Larry and I have set more than our fair share of stuff on fire. Just not this week! :)
I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso. As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.
Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now. Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.
That's brewing ratio. Extraction ratio is how much of the (hopefully dissolved) coffee ends up in the cup.
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I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso. As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.
Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now. Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.
That's brewing ratio. Extraction ratio is how much of the (hopefully dissolved) coffee ends up in the cup.
Todd got it in one.....
and suspended solids are probably not to be dismissed altogether....
Susan
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I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso. As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.
Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now. Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.
Wrong, but....
if you don't care you just don't, and....Goofy is one of the nicer things I've been called....
Susan
No, I can't be wrong! ;)
So you weigh the coffee before pulling the shot, and then you weigh the spent puck? Is the puck dried out first? And this tells you what sort of meaningful information? I want to care, but I don't understand.
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Yes.
I weigh the dose.
Pull the shot.
Weigh the puck.
Dry the puck in the oven.
Weigh the grounds.
Divide the weight lost by the weight of the original dose
And that gives me the % extraction.
My current extraction % seems to be about 18%,
but....I am a student and not a teacher.
Read Jim's article if you are interested in why it might matter.
I have improved the taste in the cup over the past day or two just playing around with the concept....or have at least deluded myself into thinking so....:-)))
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Come on, Sam, I had the MD-50 for 6 years ;)
Susan
and how long were you married again? we all make mistakes... :-)
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Oh Sam.....low blow, but not an unreasonable question, and the answer is......not very long.
As to Peter, I was just outside thinking about your lack of interest and realized that my interest wouldn't exist if I were completely satisfied with what I'm pulling out of my various espresso machines. I have been searching for my own personal and reproduceable perfect shots now for....6-7 years? I'm a slow learner....:-)))))))))
Susan
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6 or 7 years means you're only in the foothills on the path up the mountain to espresso nirvana... ;)
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6 or 7 years means you're only in the foothills on the path up the mountain to espresso nirvana... ;)
THANK YOU !!!!
I knew someone would get it that I'm still a rank beginner....:-))))
Susan
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As to Peter, I was just outside thinking about your lack of interest and realized that my interest wouldn't exist if I were completely satisfied with what I'm pulling out of my various espresso machines. I have been searching for my own personal and reproduceable perfect shots now for....6-7 years? I'm a slow learner....:-)))))))))
Susan
Yeah, I get that. Lack of satisfaction is a strong motivator. I'm still somewhat interested, just to get some understanding of the process.
But let me ask this; if you find that 18% is where you want to be in extraction percentage, and you're above or below, what is it that you change in the process to hone in on the 18%? Amount of coffee used? Shot time? I may get hooked into this after all.
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I'm keeping the shot weight as my constant right now: 30 grams.
I started with a dose of 17.5%; pulled the shot until 30 grams.
Extractions have seemed to be 17.5 - 18% (very very very small sample, but this is just for me and not 'science')
Anyway, this morning to see if I could up the extraction a tiny bit, I tightened the grind and lowered the dose to 17 grams.
I liked the improvement in the taste.
I haven't dried the puck yet to see if the numbers changed.
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As to Peter, I was just outside thinking about your lack of interest and realized that my interest wouldn't exist if I were completely satisfied with what I'm pulling out of my various espresso machines. I have been searching for my own personal and reproduceable perfect shots now for....6-7 years? I'm a slow learner....:-)))))))))
Susan
Yeah, I get that. Lack of satisfaction is a strong motivator. I'm still somewhat interested, just to get some understanding of the process.
But let me ask this; if you find that 18% is where you want to be in extraction percentage, and you're above or below, what is it that you change in the process to hone in on the 18%? Amount of coffee used? Shot time? I may get hooked into this after all.
Adjust the grind! I can't help but approve of any experiment that smells as bad as the puck bake, but it is really hard to pull it off with any precision. 1% of a puck is less than .2g, which means you would have to filter the shot and add that back into your total, as well as scrounge for all the loose bits on your grouphead.
I think the easiest way to play with it is to filter a shot through paper, and then use about $800 of refractometer and software. Then you jack around with every parameter you can think of. You can make it go down pretty easily. Up is harder.
Or, you could brute force it, and hold the coffee to water ratio constant and adjust the grind.
For example 18g in, 35g in the cup. Maybe you like 60g out, maybe 30g that's all fine too as long as it stays the same. Start with your grinder way coarser than you need, and stop the shot when you hit 35g out, regardless of what the flow looks like. Repeat with tighter grinds, essentially until you choke it.
If you have no big limitations in temp, grinder distribution, distribution, etc. most people will find that the best taste, and good looking flow timing occurs in the 18-22% extraction range. You would need to do this after any changes that would alter the extraction rate. (ex. PID setting, water tests, pressure settings,roast level,coffee,etc.)
The big conicals will show good flow timing across a much wider range than lesser (now being sold) equipment. In some ways that is cool, allows you to flow nice and soft for a wider range of adjustments. In some ways that is bad, making it harder to diagnose shot quality by just looking at the flow. (see how I pulled this back on topic?)
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I've found a grind setting I quite like but I want to do some experimenting.
I'm trying to think of the best way on this gorgeous machine to mark a current setting so that I can easily dial a bit coarser and/or a bit tighter without losing track of where I was....
Suggestions?
Susan
I use an MS Word file that I print out that has a line with hash marks at short intervals that are numbered. I just cut out a narrow area and tape it to the grinder. A small very narrow strip of tape on the upper grind adjustment piece acts as a marker for the setting. It's worked well for years on the K3 before I got the K10. Still works great.
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Susan
I use an MS Word file that I print out that has a line with hash marks at short intervals that are numbered. I just cut out a narrow area and tape it to the grinder. A small very narrow strip of tape on the upper grind adjustment piece acts as a marker for the setting. It's worked well for years on the K3 before I got the K10. Still works great.
I can do that :-))))
Thanks
Susan
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Baking one puck in the oven doesn't even register on the olfactory Richter scale.
And, for me, I thought it was kinda cool to do the experiment and find that my extraction is well within the "best" range. Todd isn't the first one to dismiss this particular way of sussing out extraction %, but given the lack of a refractometer, drying pucks is my alternative of choice. A brix meter could be used (with all kinds of calculation adjustments), but I kinda like this approach.
If you want to know any more about this method or my results....fergeddaboudit.
Susan
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One puck? I expected much better from you! I ran a few full cookie sheets, which is about .7 on the garden pea scale.
Susan, I didn't intend the previous post as criticism or dismissal of dried pucks. Some serious coffee heavyweights have played with the pucks, and stuff like this will lead us to better coffee someday. Paying attention is cool, trying to improve your coffee is always very cool, getting Peter to consider baking a puck is off the charts.
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Well, Todd, I did misread your comments as dismssive, so thanks for clarifying.
There is no question that the variables are very variable, and that what I am trying to get a handle on for myself is waaaaaay below the level of true scientific inquiry, but....as any kid with a new mud pie, I'm having quite a lot of fun.
One puck a day is all I generate; so data acquisition is slow....
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Having weighed only four pucks so far, and having actually changed the grind only in the last instance, I am finding that Todd is probably quite right that changing the numbers isn't going to happen given the fineness of the measurements and the vagaries of measurements taken by fumble fingers. However (and I know we aren't arguing at all), having done the first dry and found that my extraction ratio was "in the ballpark", it still makes making decisions about which way to adjust to try to fine tune the taste clearer to me. The numbers (even if somewhat skewed) showed me I was probably at the lower end of the best extraction percentage, so it made sense to make fine adjustments to try to increase that.
What I was pulling tasted good; grinding a tad finer and lowering the dose? even better.
When I get the SAMA plugged back in it will be even more interesting to compare the extraction percentages that I get from that deeper basket.
Susan
Susan
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However (and I know we aren't arguing at all), having done the first dry and found that my extraction ratio was "in the ballpark", it still makes making decisions about which way to adjust to try to fine tune the taste clearer to me. The numbers (even if somewhat skewed) showed me I was probably at the lower end of the best extraction percentage, so it made sense to make fine adjustments to try to increase that.
What I was pulling tasted good; grinding a tad finer and lowering the dose? even better.
Isn't that something you could've realized w/o all the hassle of drying and weighing spent pucks?
That's why I like the relative simplicity of weighing coffee going in and espresso coming out. Keeping those two parameters fairly consistent, then the last thing I measure is the time of the shot, which is adjusted w/ the grind. I find each of the little hash marks on the K10 collar equivalent to 5sec. of shot time.
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Isn't that something you could've realized w/o all the hassle of drying and weighing spent pucks?
Obviously not.
>:(
Susan
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Personally, I find making espresso offerings to the sink trolls is a mo-betta way to go than baking/weighing/mathematical-ing stuff. Pulling one shot a day when trying to dial in a blend is too frustrating for me. Pull/taste/adjust/repeat until I'm satisfied is how I like to do it.
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Ah, well.....for me there is only enough attention span for one pull.
After that I'm on to something else for the day....
Pulling multiple shots in a row?
Not my style....
But I don't expect to be weighing and calculating on an ongoing basis. This is just a little experiment in understanding extraction %, as opposed to (in addition to) brew ratio.
Susan