Author Topic: Looking at an Ambex 5k  (Read 2899 times)

jimbo

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Looking at an Ambex 5k
« on: April 16, 2014, 09:38:05 AM »
So, my wife and I have been talking a lot about making some changes.  I have been doing this software consulting gig a looonnnggg time.  And traveling pretty much every week.  We've talked a lot about having a small cafe.  I'm under no delusions about something like this being a huge money maker.  It's more of a labor of love of it - something we've dreamed about for years. And something I can see myself doing for a very long time - well past retirement.  I don't see myself ever really retiring.  Just stopping what I am currently doing - which I'm pretty much ready to do.)

Along comes this:  http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bfs/4414798039.html

It's 30 minutes away, and we're going to take a look on Friday.  Looking for any words of wisdom concerning the Ambex.  Is the 2 chaff fires something to be concerned about, or are they a somewhat common occurrence?  Researching price it looks to be okay, but certainly not great.  Thoughts on the price?

What about the Astoria 2 Group Divina Espresso Machine assuming it's in good shape?  Worthwhile?

We weren't exactly ready to jump in, but this is close by and I can transport everything myself.  If it's too good to pass up, I may jump.  Can't hurt to look.  Maybe a package deal?

Words of wisdom appreciated. 

Jimbo
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:40:53 AM by jimbo »

zhensley

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 09:08:08 PM »
I've been talking to this seller too and curious to see the answers to your questions. I don't have the cash in hand right now or I'd be going to take a look. 90 minutes away for me, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses for you.

Best of luck

milowebailey

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 10:06:49 PM »
Jimbo


Although Ambex is a respectable roaster, and 5k good size roaster to start a business, have you put together a business plan?  Do you need to make money?  Serious questions...... I recommend starting there.  I've thought about the same idea a few times, but could not make the numbers work at this point in my life.  Also a cafe will own you 24/7.  I don't want to bust your dream, but these are things to consider.  If you are ok with all that then go for it and if you need references with coffee breakers I know let me know!!


Equipment is the easy part.

jimbo

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 05:07:46 AM »
zhensley, I will let you know what I see/hear.  I think there may be better deals to be had if I/we are patient.  BTW, where are you located? 

Milo, thanks for the comments.  My wife and I have talked about it a lot, and honestly, I'm not without concern.  Part of what is driving me is burnout.  Serious burnout.  I am 57 and been doing the road warrior software implementation consulting for over 20 years.  We will be empty nesters this year, after my daughter gets married, and it's really not fair to my wife to leave her home alone.  At this point I'm getting to the age where some companies might be reluctant to hire me.  Coffee and motorcycles are passions of mine, but I don't have the desire, nor the skills to open a cycle shop.  We've looked at some properties that would actually have us living above the shop, which would be ideal.  My house is almost paid off, but I don't think I want to pay rent or have two mortgages, at least not at this point. 

I have done some number crunching, and realize that it won't be easy.  There's even a bit of concern about it really being doable at this point.  I'd like to do this as a retirement gig so that money is not a serious consideration, but today I still have bills to pay.

All that said, I am still considering a roaster of this type so that I can at least offer my coffees for sale to a larger base than I currently sell to.  We're starting a farmers market in town that I am thinking about setting up in, plus we have a number of small restaurants, and bed and breakfast place nearby that may also be options for serving my coffee.

Starting to ramble here ...

Jimbo

zhensley

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 08:47:16 AM »
I'm in Louisville. How about you?

BoldJava

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 08:50:56 AM »
...
Along comes this:  http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bfs/4414798039.html

It's 30 minutes away, and we're going to take a look on Friday...


I think just looking will help you form ideas and quality and price on a used Ambex.  I thought it was reasonably priced.  Good luck in your search on next chapter/s in life.

jimbo

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 09:56:24 AM »
zhensley, I live in Waynesville, the Antiques Capital of the Midwest, or so it says on the sign.  About 45 minute NE of Cincinnati.

B|Java, I agree.  I've not looked at any larger roasters up to this point, so if nothing else its just a good exercise in seeing whats out there and available.  Of course, he may make me an offer that is just too hard to pass up, but I doubt it.  At this point I'm not planning to come home with a new roaster.  Yet.

Anyone looking to hire a 57 year old that really can't do much.  I mean, I'm a consultant.  That pretty much says it all ...

BoldJava

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 10:02:52 AM »
...

Anyone looking to hire a 57 year old that really can't do much.  I mean, I'm a consultant.  That pretty much says it all ...

<Chuckling>...know the feeling, knocking on 66.  Beginning a search for 16 hrs/wk soon in back-office coffee.

Offline staylor

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 11:26:35 AM »
The main thing I bump into at the start of a 'I want to own a cafe' conversation is the rose coloured glasses view of what that person thinks cafe ownership is... well, it's so not that. I can say with confidence that owning a cafe is no small undertaking. I base that comment on the 2yrs that I owned a reasonably busy cafe (.5mil a year approx 8yrs ago) but more important that that, being a cafe owner allowed me to talk on common grounds with a lot of other cafe owners and hear their opinions/experiences.

If you want to be all that you can be, your cafe will absorb every waking moment. If you manage to create a really busy cafe the customer volume (think 15 people lined up) will have you on the rivet, on top of that you will be running anywhere from 5 to 10 employees in a single shift (and that comes with its own challenges). If you create a small low volume cafe you won't have too many employees to worry about as you might be the only one you can afford to hire, in that case get used to the idea of scrubbing toilets, mopping floors, doing inventory, dusting, cleaning tables, etc, etc and etc. Actually, no matter how many employees you have, get used to the idea of scrubbing toilets and mopping floors. Speaking of small cafe's, how small is too small? Your business plan will tell you.

Rent, overhead, insurance, wages, POS fees, accountant, equipment leasing, supplies, milk delivery, and lots more monthly costs that never go away, regardless of how much coffee you do or don't sell. It doesn't matter how good your coffee is, or how passionate you are, if you don't choose an excellent location, and create the right vibe, and manage it really well, all the COE's in the world won't turn you a profit. Some people get into the cafe business and within months start coming to the realization that they just bought themselves a job, and it might not even be minimum wage. Then what?

The job isn't doom and gloom if you are stoked about hard work and long days, like being on your feet all of the time, and you are really good with all kinds of people (even the jerks), and etc. Best case scenario - even with the right setup and the right owner, it's still pretty hard work.

We have discussed this topic over several threads here at GCBC, where I've said most of this. And every time I've had this conversation I feel like the bad guy, stealing away the dreamy paradise of an easy retirement in a cafe. But, better to lay out a cold hard warning instead of just smiling and nodding and saying 'Good luck'.

With all that said, I'm glad I owned my cafe. I learned a lot. I think I learned enough to not do it again. ;-)

Pyment

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 03:23:31 PM »
I went through the business plan thing a few years back.

I took a class on starting a business through the local tech school.

found an online resource for crafting the business plan.

met with the small business development guy from the Small business administration.

Took a class from Victor Mondry (who started a chain of coffeeshops and dropped out of Med school)

Looked at properties to locate my roastery.

Made lots of spreadsheets.

priced roasters.

and realized how much fun all that took out of roasting.

Much happier for having decided NOT to go forward even though the numbers added up.

So, by all means, write a business plan and think about what you really want.

The roaster is the fun part, do that last.

Offline Ascholten

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 05:29:09 PM »
The business plan.   MUST be good if you plan on borrowing any money from a bank to start  your business.  the first thing they ask for; 'do you have a business plan?'  We need to see it.

Sitting down and drawing your dreams is NOT a good business plan either, they don't want to see that, they want to see cold hard facts and numbers to show you have a clue and know how to make it work before giving you any money.  It sucks, I went through all this crap with my business and they still treated me like a leper when it came to getting a small loan.  Oh and NO you can't use 'yourself' as collateral.  Ie well it's MY business, I pay the taxes I run it, why can't I use 'my' excellent credit rating for the loan?  Because the business is not 'you', it's the 'business'.  If it goes tango uniform, YOU shielded yourself from it with the LLC or Corp so it is it's own entity.  I finally said screw this, took out a personal loan and was out the door within the hour with my money, but would have taken a few weeks at least doing it under the 'business'.

If you got some money ferreted away you are in a lot better shape.  (and NO do NOT throw your retirement nest egg into this, that is a bad move).  If you are looking to take out loans, if you go signature, prepare to pay a lot in interest and YES that will HURT a ton on a starting business.  If you go secured, you are still paying but THAT is a lot of money tied up doing' nothing for you as well.

Then there is the health department to deal with, and the plumbing, and electricity  oh and it's 5K  now you need special ventilation....

Please have a very good idea what you are getting into before making that jump.

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

jimbo

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 06:22:16 AM »
Bruised and bloody ...  curled up in the fetal position.  Mommy!!!

Actually, all good advice.  And mostly what has been said before.  I appreciate all of the comments.  For several years we have talked about the cafe ownership.  We have come up with a basic business plan.  Our intention has always been for this to be something we do later, if at all.  Our plan is to do this without financing, or not at all.  It is also our goal to do this when we are in a position to get by on savings until we can begin to turn a profit. 

Ultimately, when I retire I want to do something that I thoroughly enjoy and because I want to, not because I have to.  If we can make the cafe thing work, great.  If not, I am thinking about hitting up some of the better local coffee houses to see if they would consider hiring an old man. 

While I have to admit to romanticizing this a bit in my dreams, I think I am a realist when it comes to actually doing it.  As I mentioned in my opening post, part of what is driving this is burnout.  I need to do something else, and I have never just earned a paycheck.  I throw all of myself into what I do.  Long hours are of no concern to me.  Anyone else who has done the road warrior thing probably knows about the long hours.  I do 8 - 10 hrs on site, and another 2 - 3 at the hotel. 

At any rate, today is probably not the day that I hang a shingle outside a store window.  But I don't want to just dismiss it out of hand either.  More importantly, I do want to be able to improve my roasting skills, increase the volume, and possibly look at opportunities to sell my coffee to some of the locals.

Again, thanks for all of the comments and advice. 

Now I'll go back to sucking my thumb.  8)

Jimbo

milowebailey

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 07:04:05 AM »
Jumbo


I think you will find you nich.  And it is great you wife is in it with you!  That alone will help you decisions. 

jimbo

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2014, 06:34:22 AM »
I looked at the roaster last night.  IAs we walked in the shop I immediately had some real concerns.  The roaster is in the cafe, not in a separate room.  Not really an issue except that the shop was not clean.  First red flag.  If the shop's not clean, how well does he take care of the equipment.  He had roaster several batches in the morning, and was still not in the habit of cleaning the chaff collector, even after two fires.  The warning bells just kept ringing after that. 

Looked at his Astoria which is in serious need of help.  His grinder (he was using the one grinder for everything) was an absolute mess.  Just nasty. 

Based just on those observations, there's no way I'd hand over $7500 for the roaster.


Pyment

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Re: Looking at an Ambex 5k
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2014, 08:11:37 AM »
even after two fires. 

I don't know how to post videos, but this one came to mind immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk

I don't know if it has been mentioned or not, but one should be prepared for fires in these roasters. They happen even in well maintained units, but an important detail is you should NOT use a standard extinguisher on one of these fires. That is a flavor you will never get out of the drum.

You should use a water based, CO2 or halon extinguisher.

I wouldn't trust this guy to have known that, or abide by the recommendation.

I am not quite sure if there is a size you need depending on size of roaster.