Commercial Espresso Machine Recommendations

[shep]

Got a question for the retail guys. Lets say you had the opportunity to take over a small retail operation located within a larger store. You have all seen the big coffee company coffee bars located in large grocers or department stores, right? That's what I'm talking about. So, if you were given the opportunity to set up shop in a store that has an average weekly traffic of 25-30k customers, and you were located directly inside the front door, what sort of espresso machine would you be looking? My machine experience is limited to my home machine I purchased on this board, a vibiemme domobar and a Nuova Apia that I lease to a small cafe customer.

Shep

[mp]

Any idea of how many would stop in to have an espresso or cappuccino?

 

[shep]

Not a clue at this point. Apparently not enough for the mighty D/D to keep the spot!

Shep

[mp]

I would say that it would really depend on the volume of customers that you would have there.  If you have 3 or 4 people at a time lined up awaiting an espresso or cappuccino then you may want to consider commercial 2 or 3 group machine.  If you look around you can get them fairly cheap ... if they need a little work ... very cheap ... and sometimes you can get them in good working order still for cheap.  Lots of good names ... Faema, Nuova Simonelli, Gaggia, La Marzocco, Futuremat ... etc.

If the customers are more dispersed and you get one or two every once in a while you can even get away with a prosumer ... in fact your Domobar may get the job done for you.

 

[shep]

This is a large chain grocery, recently given a make over to become what the company calls a "flagship" store. It is indeed very nice. Retail is not something I had planned, although I had considered putting some "store within a store' shops in town. There was no plan to serve brewed product in them however. This opportunity has not been officially offered, but I was told to be prepared as it is coming. That being the case, I just want to get a jump on costs, etc.

Shep

[peter]

No recommendation on a machine, but I'd be thinking about working a deal with the store owner to give discounts on drinks based on amount of money spent in the store.  That way it'll provide incentive for the people to come to your coffee area, you sell more, and have the store paying part of the customers' drinks.

[crholliday]

The big question is what machines can be supported locally by a repair shop that stocks parts? Aside from that, it becomes a question of how high a standard you want to go after. Personally, I am a big fan of Marzoccos. I think they are solid, easy to service and have pretty good ergonomics. To me, the best ergonomics are on the Nuova Simonelli Aurelias and the Synessos. I love the lever steam actuators vs knobs. The Marzocco GB/5s have a quarter turn knob that are also very easy to work with.

To me, temp control is essential. That pretty much limits you to Synesso, Marzocco, Slayer, the WBC NS Aurelia and maybe 1 or 2 other models. The Slayers are pretty boutiquee and will be hard to find anyone who has even heard of them. Synessos have been around long enough that you may find a someone who has seen one but probably they dont stock parts. The WBC Aurelia is more expensive than the Marzocco GB/5s and also less likely to have local support folks.

I am biased but your market will probably look like above.

C.

[Warrior372]

I am completely partial to Commercial Lever Espresso machines for several reasons. So, I would encourage you to look into going the way of Blue Bottle of San Francisco (and soon to be New York), the Lux of Phoenix, and Cafe Vita of Seattle. After proper training on a lever, you can pull shots that are superior to any machine on the market. They really help bring out different levels of flavor from your coffees. The pressurized paddle semi-auto machines, Synesso, Slayer, etc. are simply trying to electronically mimic the lever's pressure profile, as that is the only pressure profile proven to bring out better flavors from the coffee compared to the standard constant pressure of a normal semi-auto commercial machine.

The overall build of a lever is very simple and easy to understand. If you look 'under the hood' of one you will notice that the only electronic parts are the pressure stat and the heating element. Compared to the massive amount of engineering and parts that go into the modern pressurized paddle machines, fixing a lever is a snap. You would be more than capable of diagnosing and fixing the small number of things that can go wrong with one. This way you do not have to depend on a repair person, and can keep the shop up and running.

You can install a PID to regulate water temperatures pretty easily. This would really make a machine that is the best of both worlds. It would have the look of an early classic espresso machine, but the PID'd temperature control of the modern monsters.

They are quite eye catching as well, as most people have never seen one. The movement of multiple levers at one time is quite mesmerizing.

La San Marco currently makes a great commercial lever machines that is not outrageously expensive like a Kees Van Der Weston Idocompresso or a Bosco. San Marco is actually the oldest espresso machine manufacturer that is still in business today. Rancilio has a very strong lever named the Classe 6 LE. Conti has a great one called the Classica PM. Astoria also makes a very visually appealing lever the Rapallo, which is more expensive than the others. The San Marco's sport a 55mm portafilter basket. In the lever world the more narrow the basket the more 'layered' the flavors. This quality is pretty unique to narrow basket lever machines.

There is actually a 2 group Rapallo on craigslist New Mexico and they are asking $3,000. They repost it every few weeks, and is has been on there for about 2 months now, so I am sure you could negotiate a better price. Those retail for about $7,000.

I know they are not for everyone, but in the hands of the right person you really can not beat them. It would definitely set you apart from the other shops in the area. Just my 2 cents.

[thejavaman]

The big question is what machines can be supported locally by a repair shop that stocks parts? Aside from that, it becomes a question of how high a standard you want to go after. Personally, I am a big fan of Marzoccos. I think they are solid, easy to service and have pretty good ergonomics. To me, the best ergonomics are on the Nuova Simonelli Aurelias and the Synessos. I love the lever steam actuators vs knobs. The Marzocco GB/5s have a quarter turn knob that are also very easy to work with.

To me, temp control is essential. That pretty much limits you to Synesso, Marzocco, Slayer, the WBC NS Aurelia and maybe 1 or 2 other models. The Slayers are pretty boutiquee and will be hard to find anyone who has even heard of them. Synessos have been around long enough that you may find a someone who has seen one but probably they dont stock parts. The WBC Aurelia is more expensive than the Marzocco GB/5s and also less likely to have local support folks.

I am biased but your market will probably look like above.

C.

Good advice.  I briefly tested and saw the Nuova Simonelli Aurelia in action when I was a judge at last year's North-East/Mid-Atlanic Barista Championships and I have to say that they really seemed like a very nice machine to me.  Of course I haven't used/seen many other commerical espresso machines in person (with the exception of the La Marzocco Linea, which is also a good machine), so take that with a grain of salt.  The Aurelia is definitely worth a look though....

[Tex]

I'd definitely go with a 4-group double boiler. If you're not busy enough to swamp a 2-group then you're headed for bankruptcy, and it's better to prepare for success than failure. La Marzocco double boiler machines are just rock star performers - temp stable and super build quality. Check with your supplier, often they'll have great prices on used 3 & 4 group machines. I personally wouldn't be afraid to pick one up on Craig's List if the price is right.

Be sure to have your baristas trained by professionals. It's costly, but the cost is justified when it only takes one bad experience to turn away a whole family of customers.

A local store has a coffee bar set up inside the store, with a cart outside to catch people going into neighboring stores. From what they tell me, the cart gets more hits than the coffee bar. Try and get the store to give you an option on a cart to be added at some point.

[Tex]

The big question is what machines can be supported locally by a repair shop that stocks parts? Aside from that, it becomes a question of how high a standard you want to go after. Personally, I am a big fan of Marzoccos. I think they are solid, easy to service and have pretty good ergonomics. To me, the best ergonomics are on the Nuova Simonelli Aurelias and the Synessos. I love the lever steam actuators vs knobs. The Marzocco GB/5s have a quarter turn knob that are also very easy to work with.

To me, temp control is essential. That pretty much limits you to Synesso, Marzocco, Slayer, the WBC NS Aurelia and maybe 1 or 2 other models. The Slayers are pretty boutiquee and will be hard to find anyone who has even heard of them. Synessos have been around long enough that you may find a someone who has seen one but probably they dont stock parts. The WBC Aurelia is more expensive than the Marzocco GB/5s and also less likely to have local support folks.

I am biased but your market will probably look like above.

C.

Good advice.  I briefly tested and saw the Nuova Simonelli Aurelia in action when I was a judge at last year's North-East/Mid-Atlanic Barista Championships and I have to say that they really seemed like a very nice machine to me.  Of course I haven't used/seen many other commerical espresso machines in person (with the exception of the La Marzocco Linea, which is also a good machine), so take that with a grain of salt.  The Aurelia is definitely worth a look though....

Are the levers on the current NS machines still next to the hot water/steam wands? My Mac Digit had that setup and holding the lever open while my hand was being steamed was uncomfortable. I prefer the levers on my Bunn ES-1A - they're under the drip tray; easy to access and safely away from the heat!

[thejavaman]

Are the levers on the current NS machines still next to the hot water/steam wands? My Mac Digit had that setup and holding the lever open while my hand was being steamed was uncomfortable. I prefer the levers on my Bunn ES-1A - they're under the drip tray; easy to access and safely away from the heat!

The levers that control the steam pressure are above the wands (on either side).  HERE'S A PICTURE of the machine itself (see below also).  The teflon coated portafilters and leather covered handles were pretty cool too.  $13,600 + shipping is a nice little chunk of change though....

[FinerGrind]

Just read about this one Shep on Coffeed:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bfs/1611547325.html

this is what I'd buy if an opportunity like yours came my way. Not a bad price on this either...

Woody

[FinerGrind]

I left off his direct email:
mailto:coryneal@me.com

[Stubbie]

Love, love LOVE my Linea 2 group...

How many people are going to be working behind the bar?  If it's no more than 1 or 2 at a time, I would think a 2 group would be just right.  One of my accounts is a busy shop here in town - they burn through about 70# of coffee a week, 20-30# of that is espresso - all through a tired looking 2 group.

-Stubbie