Best espresso machine for under 2000.00

[Warrior372]

Too many newbies spend $1000 - $4000 on prosumer espresso machines, expecting their new toy to produce God shots. But it's not the machine that makes great coffee; it's operator ability/knowledge, paired with good beans, a good grinder, and a properly tuned espresso machine that makes good coffee.

Same with a camera and many other things.

On the other hand, If someone knew they were going to be very serious long term about espresso, why waste the time and money on a lower cost machine that's just frustrating for someone who has high standards and really takes the time to learn?

In Peter's case, I think its good he got a machine that won't be frustrating.

That is a good point. If that is the case I say skip the Prosumer and purchase a used Commercial then. I cannot compare any of the prosumer espresso machines I have ever had to any of the commercial espresso machine I own or have owned. The commercial machines have larger boilers, which allows you to pull more shots for yourself, family and friends, they produce locomotive amounts of steam, they use commercial grade parts that are meant to pull 100+ shots per hour (so when you are only pulling 2-5 shots a day they should easily outlive you), the added convenience of either running through direct plumbing or a 5 gallon bottle and a Flo-Jet pump, and have the real capability of being left on all day versus prosumers who claim this is okay when this is simply not what they were made to endure.

Prosumer machines just spell H.e.a.d.a.c.h.e. to me. I have had several and more stuff broke on the 4 prosumers I had then all of the other machines I have ever owned combined. They have a mishmash of home consumer and low grade commercial parts under their hoods, and are quite unreliable when compared to commercial machines.

If big and burly is a must, I would purchase a used single group commercial machine and outfit it with a PID yourself. I have seen single group La Marzocco Linea's for $2k on craigslist. If you are not in a huge hurry you might want to look into this option, as you will never want to upgrade and will simply have one of the best machines ever made. I am drooling right now thinking about that setup with a PID!

[Warrior372]

I have (wanted) to spend about 2k on an espresso machine. This does not include grinder. I was going to get a Mazzer.  

A grinder of that caliber will serve you and your new machine much better! Good plan.

[GC7]

Same with a camera and many other things.

On the other hand, If someone knew they were going to be very serious long term about espresso, why waste the time and money on a lower cost machine that's just frustrating for someone who has high standards and really takes the time to learn?

In Peter's case, I think its good he got a machine that won't be frustrating.

Well said.

[John F]

On the other hand, If someone knew they were going to be very serious long term about espresso, why waste the time and money on a lower cost machine........

I don't disagree with what is being said but I have an answer to the above portion.

Because many times they don't know they are going to be serious. Many, many times I don't think they have ever had good espresso and really can't even be sure they like it. 

I do however totally disagree with the notion that nothing can be learned from Rocky grinders....that is just silly talk. But yes...the best grinder you can get is the best choice. And upgrading your grinder no doubt improves your set up.

[shakin_jake]

I do however totally disagree with the notion that nothing can be learned from Rocky grinders....that is just silly talk. But yes...the best grinder you can get is the best choice. And upgrading your grinder no doubt improves your set up.
[/quote]



~~~~Well,  If you're of the opinion that a better grinder will improve your set up, why start with a known inferior espresso grinder like the Rocky? :BangHead:

The whole idea of pulling quality espresso shots begins with a minimum standard grinder and the Rocky does not fit that standard.  Yes!, I have used a Rocky grinder and not that long ago...it belongs to a friend who is just getting into specialty coffee (she drinks drip) and we did some side by side grinding for espresso at Jake's Cafe along with my Ranchilio MD-50.  I'm not a Rocky hater but I wouldn't even consider using it day and day out for espresso, but it is more than worthy for vac pot grind or the like


Jake
Reddick Fla.
I may not agree with what you say...
but if you say it with fewer words I'll try harder...
 

[peter]

Over on Home Barista, Jim Schulman did a long comparison test, stacking up several top notch grinders against the Mazzer Robur.  It's very good.  Part way through a reader suggested throwing a hand grinder and a Rocky into the mix.  It's a good read, so I don't want to spoil it, but he found the Rocky does a respectable job on smaller doses.

I like how my Macap M4 pairs with the Vivaldi, but really don't know enough yet to know what I don't know.      My next target will be a Compak K10, if and when I truly outgrow the Macap.

[John F]

The whole idea of pulling quality espresso shots begins with a minimum standard grinder and the Rocky does not fit that standard. 

Well, if you think the Rocky fails to meet the minimum standard to pull a good shot all I can do is take that as your opinion.

I think otherwise but as stated better is better so any better grinder would be a good choice.

[Tex]

The whole idea of pulling quality espresso shots begins with a minimum standard grinder and the Rocky does not fit that standard. 

Well, if you think the Rocky fails to meet the minimum standard to pull a good shot all I can do is take that as your opinion.

I think otherwise but as stated better is better so any better grinder would be a good choice.

I used to consider the Rancilio Rocky & Gaggia MDF as minimally acceptable espresso grinders, but no more. Their build quality hasn't changed, but my appreciation of espresso has, thus my change of opinion.

An espresso grinder must do many things extremely well. It must have a very wide range of adjustment. There must be an absolute minimum of play in the distance between the burrs (no wobble). The burr speed must be low enough that the coffee isn't heated. And most important in my book, it must have a very high ratio of quality to purchase price. The Rancilio Rocky and the Gaggia MDF fail all of my standards.

[John F]

I used to consider the Rancilio Rocky & Gaggia MDF as minimally acceptable espresso grinders, but no more. Their build quality hasn't changed, but my appreciation of espresso has, thus my change of opinion.

If I had a way to set it up to be judged by a panel of universally acknowledged "in the know" tasters I'd gladly bet $1,000 that I can pull a good shot with a Rocky grinder.

If that is something beyond the ability of the Rocky grinder would you say it's magic that allows me to do it? 

[Tigeranteater]

I purchased the Rocky because all I was into was coffee, straight plain coffee, with a vac pot and technivorm of which the Rocky is more than capable. The way I do thingsgoes basically like this: I start out in a hobby. I learn as much as I can at the speed of light. I buy the best of what I can afford and then master my capabilities. Example:
I started extract brewing in 2004, learned what I cold but something was missing. I didn't like making cake mix beer.
I started all grain homebrewing in August of 2008. That is brewing the way it is intentend to be, by grain like the pros. I learned my hobby well. June 17th I have 2 beers in the Nationals. That is a BIG deal for those not in the know. I have since August 2008 garnered more than 80 awards in National competitions. Why am I telling you this? Because it is the way I do things: I usually go all out for something I enjoy. Yes, I have been around the world and had some great espresso...Florence Italy comes to mind as the best, so I know good espresso. I just don't drink it every day because Chattanooga does not have anything resembling a good espresso bar. We have Starbucks and that doesn't count. What I want is something NEAR what I had in Florence. I will spend the time to learn how to do it but first need the equipment and if I can do it for 2 or 3k instead of 6...well I am a businessman.     

[mp]

I purchased the Rocky because all I was into was coffee, straight plain coffee, with a vac pot and technivorm of which the Rocky is more than capable. The way I do thingsgoes basically like this: I start out in a hobby. I learn as much as I can at the speed of light. I buy the best of what I can afford and then master my capabilities. Example:
I started extract brewing in 2004, learned what I cold but something was missing. I didn't like making cake mix beer.
I started all grain homebrewing in August of 2008. That is brewing the way it is intentend to be, by grain like the pros. I learned my hobby well. June 17th I have 2 beers in the Nationals. That is a BIG deal for those not in the know. I have since August 2008 garnered more than 80 awards in National competitions. Why am I telling you this? Because it is the way I do things: I usually go all out for something I enjoy. Yes, I have been around the world and had some great espresso...Florence Italy comes to mind as the best, so I know good espresso. I just don't drink it every day because Chattanooga does not have anything resembling a good espresso bar. We have Starbucks and that doesn't count. What I want is something NEAR what I had in Florence. I will spend the time to learn how to do it but first need the equipment and if I can do it for 2 or 3k instead of 6...well I am a businessman.     

If you keep on the path that you are on I can guarantee you will at one point be at least on par with what you had in Florence.  Like you we toured Italy and the coffee and cappuccino that I am producing now stands up quite well against what I've had in Italy ... in fact ... with the great beans from the club and fresh roasted coffee in the mix ... I much prefer what I produce at home.

 

[Tigeranteater]

mp.......that is music to my ears!

[mp]

mp.......that is music to my ears!

Well that music will soon be creamy, buttery, nutty, chocolaty sensations sliding down your throat.

 

[GC7]

mp.......that is music to my ears!

Since your coffee in all likelihood will be of higher quality and fresher then you had in Florence I think you will be drinking better espresso daily. 

Good luck with the new hobby.

[Tex]

I used to consider the Rancilio Rocky & Gaggia MDF as minimally acceptable espresso grinders, but no more. Their build quality hasn't changed, but my appreciation of espresso has, thus my change of opinion.

If I had a way to set it up to be judged by a panel of universally acknowledged "in the know" tasters I'd gladly bet $1,000 that I can pull a good shot with a Rocky grinder.

If that is something beyond the ability of the Rocky grinder would you say it's magic that allows me to do it? 

No, but I'd probably question the expertise of your tasters!